life after death, your view

[Senor Javi]

I'll skip through some of this because, well... I want to stop talking about this.

Originally Posted by kvrdave

That doesn't work either. Life is diverse and abundant on one single orb that we know of. Don't look at it as specific people or specific life, but as specific location, the earth. You are saying there is likely to be something for which there is absolutely no data to suggest that there is because it is only known to exist in one place.

I get what you are saying and I realize there is no suggestive data, but I'm just pointing out that we only have data for the tiniest sliver of the universe and with the sheer amount of the unknown it isn't crazy to think there is something that can be considered life somewhere. Not something to put a lot of stock into, but not incompatible will what we know.

probability in a complex system in this does not make it more feasible. I took stats in grad school. We are still dealing with an N of 1. That is not a basis for being able to conclude anything because there isn't enough data for life. I understand how large the universe is, but I also understand that we are becoming more aware of what is required for life and most of the universe is a non starter. Even if that still leaves lots of space for life, we still have a population sample of 1, and drawing a conclusion (or even a inkling) based on that is dubious. And it isn't short sighted if you understand the requirements for life. If you don't it will seem short sighted because you can hold a belief that life just happens so it must be likely, but that is a position from ignorance.

Again, I get what you are saying but none of this makes the possibility of alien life incompatible with what we know.

As for Pi, no analogy is perfect, and they all have their flaws, but I think it is a good analogy. Making the system more complex does not give way for more life. If you think it does, please articulate why without using the earth as an example.

Another reason why pi doesn't hold up - if you are just looking for any arbitrary pattern, you are going to find one. Something like 8 follows every 3rd 5 that precedes an even number. With a complex system you have an infinite number of variables. Being that life doesn't necessarily have to share our building blocks, there are an infinite number of possibilities.

Those scientists tend to be in fields that you wouldn't get into if you didn't believe in the possibility of alien life, so that isn't surprising.

Not necessarily. I'd say most are likely to believe in the possibility because they need to have a particular critical thinking process that would lead them there. No reason to rule it out, just no reason to particularly follow it either.

I think this whole discussion just points out that I don't like comparing alien life to the afterlife. Unless in our next lives we become aliens.

[kvrdave]

And my only real point was how a religious (even quasi) discussion gets people to often get nasty, where a similar disagreement over something that has nothing to do with religious ideas evokes no real emotion.

[emptysky]

Originally Posted by Anubis2005X

I'm rather surprised that so many here don't believe in any afterlife at all. Is it that you don't believe it's at all possible, or just that you don't know?

I believe an afterlife is something people came up with to make themselves feel better about crappy things out of their control in this life. If a loved one dies, who wants to think they're gone forever and you'll never see them again? If someone gets away with murder and is never punished, maybe you will be less angry believing they'll be punished in the afterlife. If you work your ass off in this life and get nowhere while someone who does evil gets everything handed to them, you can tell yourself that your reward is not in this life but in heaven. The idea of an afterlife where all wrongs are righted and you're reunited with lost loved ones makes a bitter pill easier to swallow now.

[Nick Danger]

Originally Posted by Anubis2005X

I'm rather surprised that so many here don't believe in any afterlife at all. Is it that you don't believe it's at all possible, or just that you don't know?

Both. I don't know, but I don't believe it's true.

Why would my soul get recycled into body after body, until it achieves nirvana? Or spend all eternity wandering the land of the dead, where the ground is rocky and the sun never comes out? Or be resurrected at the last trumpet, and spend long eons in purgatory until I've paid for my sins? Or that people go to heaven, but personable animals like dogs and chimps are gone forever?

It all sounds contrived. I'm perfectly satisfied to believe that once life is over, whatever characteristics that made us unique and interesting are also gone.

[Draven]

The concept of an afterlife only exists because people can't accept that they are completely insignificant in the grand scheme of things. To them, life must "continue" in some way. Because it can't just be 80+ years (if you're lucky) and that's it.

I'll be the first to admit I'm scared of death...I can't fathom how I could cease to exist. But I also accept that this is the only life I get so I better make the best of it.

[Anubis2005X]

Well more power to you guys, but I'm going to keep on believing. And if it turns out that I'm wrong and that there's nothing in the end, it's not like I'll ever realize it anyway.

[troystiffler]

Originally Posted by whoopdido

Not necessarily trying to start or continue a debate...

Sir, there is a special level of hell reserved for people who start a post like this, or prempt an insult with "all due respect".

My view is that I'm a good guy and don't really care.

[troystiffler]

Originally Posted by arminius

My view? I believe I will be looking down.

Elitist!

[Mrs. Danger]

Twickoff.


I'll worry about afterlife after life.

[Dr Mabuse]

"Everything science has taught me - and continues to teach me - strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace." - Wernher von Braun

[arminius]

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse

"Everything science has taught me - and continues to teach me - strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace." - Wernher von Braun

That is a pretty good point.

[The Edit King]

If the truth be known, I had a man crush on Wernher von Braun when I was in High School.

[eXcentris]

"I imagine that life after death will be rather similar to life prior to conception." - eXcentris the 3rd

[Dr Mabuse]

Originally Posted by eXcentris

"I imagine that life after death will be rather similar to life prior to conception." - eXcentris the 3rd

Similar ideas have been expressed by others:

"Why is it that almost every human culture yet discovered has found it necessary to believe in an afterlife of some sort, but not a 'before-life?' Why are there so many versions of Heaven, Paradise and The Great Beyond, but almost none about The Great Before?" - Judith Hayes

[movielib]

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse

"Everything science has taught me - and continues to teach me - strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace." - Wernher von Braun

Sure, every atom in your body continues to exist in some form or other. But it's pretty poorly organized.

[Mrs. Danger]

Originally Posted by movielib

Sure, every atom in your body continues to exist in some form or other. But it's pretty poorly organized.

As poorly organized as my mind is now, I doubt if I would notice any difference.

[RyoHazuki]

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse

"Why is it that almost every human culture yet discovered has found it necessary to believe in an afterlife of some sort, but not a 'before-life?' Why are there so many versions of Heaven, Paradise and The Great Beyond, but almost none about The Great Before?" - Judith Hayes

Good question.

[Tracer Bullet]

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse

Similar ideas have been expressed by others:

"Why is it that almost every human culture yet discovered has found it necessary to believe in an afterlife of some sort, but not a 'before-life?' Why are there so many versions of Heaven, Paradise and The Great Beyond, but almost none about The Great Before?" - Judith Hayes

You could also ask why almost every human culture has a bigfoot myth. Is bigfoot real?

Oh, by the way, Judith, this is called "begging the question."

[Mrs. Danger]

Many cultures DO have "before" beliefs. There just isn't such a focus on it, because we are always more interested in the future than the past.

"Before" beliefs I am aware of, without having to look anything up:

We had other lives before, but the specific events of them are not of any significance to this life.

We began in the womb, and there is nothing before.

There is another existence separate from this one, which is both the before and the after of this life.

We were bad in Hell, and got sent here as punishment.

[Dr Mabuse]

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

You could also ask why almost every human culture has a bigfoot myth. Is bigfoot real?

Oh, by the way, Judith, this is called "begging the question."

That's a quote from a rather well known atheist, just for context and all.

[statcat]

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

You could also ask why almost every human culture has a bigfoot myth. Is bigfoot real?

yes I've seen him many times

[RyoHazuki]

What's the Christian "before" belief? We're souls waiting for our future parents to meet?

[The Edit King]

[RyoHazuki]

I'm pretty sure that pedophile heaven.

[Josh-da-man]

Originally Posted by RyoHazuki

I'm pretty sure that pedophile heaven.

Now we know where Michael Jackson went.