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Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

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Old 09-24-08, 08:44 PM   #1
ninjalove
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Plato, Aristotle, Pre-Socratic

Ok. I have a test tomorrow. The teacher is not teaching from the book, and having us recite what we learned in class although no one can understand or even hear the guy so we're all up in arms.

It's a 3 page essay on one of the title-mentioned cats.

Here's what I got so far by looking shit up myself -

Plato
- Caves and reality, Ring of Gyges, Forms vs. Particles (more explanation needed, esp. the form pyramid and higher forms)

what is [myth of metals] and [three parts of soul]

Aristotle
- 4 causes. Material, Formal, Efficient, Final.

Was he the thesis, anti-thesis guy? He was about forms too right?

Pre-socratic - What did they think stuff was made from, and why? What is Annex of Anders?

This class has been such a waste!!
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Old 09-24-08, 09:03 PM   #2
ninjalove
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It's confusing, they say Herodotus is the father of history, but I always thought he was the father of lies! and indeed, I can find nothing on Bay leaves or Annex of Anders.

and Good God what did they think stuff was made from, the internet doesn't know.
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Old 09-24-08, 09:18 PM   #3
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Old 09-24-08, 09:25 PM   #4
ninjalove
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hey upgrade to pro, guy.
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Old 09-25-08, 02:48 AM   #5
ninjalove
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I have a feeling that most of you are Philosophy majors, and that you just want to see me fail. Well that's just mean, Mordred.

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Old 09-25-08, 03:46 AM   #6
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Plato, Aristotle, Pre-Socratic

all agreed on this simple fact.
Spoiler:
you're fucked

Spoiler:
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Old 09-25-08, 04:49 AM   #7
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If you're talking about Socrates by way of Plato (not sure how Plato is also pre-socratic), you can also bring up how his famous "Republic" is a bunch of theoretical, unworkable crap - much like Marx's pure communism or Machiavelli's suggestions for keeping the kingdom in good working order.
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Old 09-25-08, 05:39 AM   #8
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I say engage your professor in a Socratic dialogue, then he will know you learned the material. He might kick you out of the class, but he'll know you've learned it.
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Old 09-25-08, 08:22 AM   #9
Josh-da-man
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So, what, you want us to give you answers for your test?

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org
http://www.google.com
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Old 09-25-08, 09:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan Jim View Post
If you're talking about Socrates by way of Plato (not sure how Plato is also pre-socratic), you can also bring up how his famous "Republic" is a bunch of theoretical, unworkable crap - much like Marx's pure communism or Machiavelli's suggestions for keeping the kingdom in good working order.
Er, no. Plato and Marx were pure theoreticians whose political ideas had no basis in any society that has ever existed in human history. But Machiavelli comes from the tradition of Tacitus, which holds that political theories should be grounded in reality -- Machiavelli doesn't say it's better to be feared than loved because because of some complex bit of logic, but because he has twenty historical examples that show dictators are better off when the people fear them.
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Old 09-25-08, 09:39 AM   #11
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Ok I saw the thread title and all that came to mind was
"Morons!"
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Old 09-25-08, 01:19 PM   #12
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You're that smart?
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Old 09-25-08, 01:53 PM   #13
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Man, I remember being in a class similar to yours. It sucks big time. I googled some of the information, and just BS most of what I can remember from websites (essay format exams). Not sure what I go, but walked away from the class with a C and learning absolutely nothing. The teacher seems to be excited because he would spend the entire class time talking and analyzing stuff. It was a snooze-fest.

Oh, and good luck.
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Old 09-25-08, 09:29 PM   #14
Tuan Jim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Er, no. Plato and Marx were pure theoreticians whose political ideas had no basis in any society that has ever existed in human history. But Machiavelli comes from the tradition of Tacitus, which holds that political theories should be grounded in reality -- Machiavelli doesn't say it's better to be feared than loved because because of some complex bit of logic, but because he has twenty historical examples that show dictators are better off when the people fear them.
Yes Machiavelli is more applicable and realistic it's true, but "The Prince" was still advice aimed at making someone fail. Great read though.
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Old 09-25-08, 11:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjalove View Post
Ok. I have a test tomorrow. The teacher is not teaching from the book, and having us recite what we learned in class although no one can understand or even hear the guy so we're all up in arms.

It's a 3 page essay on one of the title-mentioned cats.

Here's what I got so far by looking shit up myself -

Plato
- Caves and reality, Ring of Gyges, Forms vs. Particles (more explanation needed, esp. the form pyramid and higher forms)

what is [myth of metals] and [three parts of soul]

Aristotle
- 4 causes. Material, Formal, Efficient, Final.

Was he the thesis, anti-thesis guy? He was about forms too right?

Pre-socratic - What did they think stuff was made from, and why? What is Annex of Anders?

This class has been such a waste!!
Do you go to CSULB by any chance?
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Old 09-25-08, 11:49 PM   #16
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Plato from The Republic is a realist, not an idealist. He offers solutions that are possible if everyone got off their asses and wasn't so selfish. He knows those solutions are very difficult to attain, but one change would make him happy. He puts the majority of reality on ideals such as love, honor, and most importantly JUSTICE. He puts the minority on materialistic representations. His biggest emphasis is on education.

Aristotle is the same except he goes wayyyyyy more into detail how to get to these solutions.

Now Machiavelli, the man's an evil fuck. His definition of reality is 100 percent materialism. He throws the ideals away and calls men fools who try to attain it. Power is everything. The Prince has to appear to care, be loving, etc. but especially religious to the people to gain their trust. Being selfish is good. Fuck everyone else. Everything is subjective from person to person, things such as love, even though, as mentioned above, are thrown away. His materialism/cynicism is today defined as reality in text books and such and Aristotle and Plato are defined as idealists, though truly that is not the case. They are realists.

Sadly, Machiavelli's philosophy runs our culture because it is easier for people to adapt to instead of reaching for a standard like the classics that P + A put heavy emphasis on.

This is it in a nutshell. PM me if you have more questions.

Also 3 parts of soul: Reason, Spirit, Desire.
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Old 09-26-08, 12:23 AM   #17
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Plato's ideas were contrary to established human nature. He was absolutely an idealist. If you attempted to actually create a society based around Plato's ideas, it would fail in less than one generation.
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Old 09-26-08, 01:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Plato's ideas were contrary to established human nature. He was absolutely an idealist. If you attempted to actually create a society based around Plato's ideas, it would fail in less than one generation.
Spoken like a true Machiavellian!

I'm actually reading a translation of The Republic right now. I have the luxury of reading it "just 'cause" instead of for a class, though, so I've been able to take my time and not concern myself with what I'll need to be able to articulate to a professor next week. Like all philosophers or theorists, there are some genuinely fascinating ideas. His views toward women, for instance, were way ahead of his time--hell, some of them are still ahead of our time. Other ideas, though...I mean, a society founded in which the guardians (leadership class) live in a communal abode, supported by tax money from the rest of the citizenry and matching 3 women to each man? Where children and parents are kept ignorant of each other's identities and you just have to hope like hell you don't wind up committing incest later on in life? Crazy, I say, crazy!
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