Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

View Poll Results: What do you think of this case?
I'm a guy, and I think she should be tried as an adult. 47 43.52%
I'm a girl, and I think she should be tried as an adult. 7 6.48%
I'm a guy, and I think she should be tried as a juvenile. 34 31.48%
I'm a girl, and I think she should be tried as a juvenile. 2 1.85%
I'm a guy, and I think this is just sad. 14 12.96%
I'm a girl, and I think this is just sad. 4 3.70%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-09-08, 04:56 PM   #1
Mrs. Danger
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mrs. Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: With Nick Danger
Posts: 15,706
Is the N.J. Teen a murderer?

Here's a poll, because I am curious about people's initial reaction to this story.

Quote:
N.J. Teen Charged In Newborn Death
MILLVILLE (AP) ―

Authorities say a 14-year-old girl has been charged with murder for allegedly drowning her newborn in a toilet at the Cumberland County Fairgrounds in Millville over the weekend.

Prosecutor Ron Casella says the girl, identified only as I.S., gave birth to a baby boy in a toilet stall, then placed the infant in the toilet tank.

Authorities believe the Bridgeton teenager acted alone, but say the investigation is ongoing.

Prosecutors now have to determine whether the girl should be tried as a juvenile or adult.

The baby was found Monday morning following a Cinco de Mayo celebration at the fairgrounds over the weekend. An autopsy determined that the baby was born alive and died of drowning.

There will be several options, please read them all before voting.
__________________
Strong, but gentle. Firm, but kind.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:01 PM   #2
Mrs. Danger
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mrs. Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: With Nick Danger
Posts: 15,706
I'm putting this poll up to test a theory I have about men reacting with less sympathy to this than women.
__________________
Strong, but gentle. Firm, but kind.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:02 PM   #3
Kittydreamer
DVD Talk Legend
 
Kittydreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,609
Wow, that's horrible.
__________________
Quote:
DeputyDave: You can take my ocelot when you can pry it off of my cold dead penis.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:04 PM   #4
CPA-ESQ.
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 4,284
oh my! is this worse than a prom night dumpster baby?

Me thinks so!

"Cinco de Mayo fairground upper decker baby"
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:52 PM   #5
OldBoy
Inane Thread Master
 
OldBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Are any of us really anywhere?
Posts: 23,196
how is she not a murderer? i mean what else would you call killing someone?
__________________
"stranger than fiction" Movie collection
"Even though I am no better than a beast, don't I have the right to live?"
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:54 PM   #6
Raul3
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Raul3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Picture a cup in the middle of the sea
Posts: 9,631
I voted juvenile.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:56 PM   #7
kvrdave
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 81,732
Tried as a juvenile. And it certainly seems to fit the definition of murder.
__________________
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baronís cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:56 PM   #8
kvrdave
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 81,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
I'm putting this poll up to test a theory I have about men reacting with less sympathy to this than women.
Sympathy for the girl or the baby?
__________________
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baronís cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 05:57 PM   #9
My Other Self
DVD Talk Legend
 
My Other Self's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Sacramento, Calif.
Posts: 13,119
Adult.
__________________
"[Kurt] Sutter makes Shakespeare look like Danielle Steel." -- EddieMoney

"As far as 240 lb rapists go, she's not that bad." -- DRG
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 06:14 PM   #10
GoVegan
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
I'm putting this poll up to test a theory I have about men reacting with less sympathy to this than women.
I'm a male vegan, so I'm just glad it wasn't a defenseless kitten or puppy.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 07:25 PM   #11
Cygnet74
Needs to contact an admin about multiple accounts
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,830
as a juvenile. it's murder.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 07:27 PM   #12
mndtrp
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: a mile high, give or take a few feet
Posts: 11,593
I'm a guy, thinks she should be tried as a juvenile, and is obviously a murderer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 07:36 PM   #13
LivingINClip
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,033
Juvenile. She is 14 and while her crime is horrendous, I don't think we can lock her away for good - not yet quite yet.
__________________
http://twitter.com/Livinginclip
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 07:39 PM   #14
kvrdave
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 81,732
I still say her only crime is timing.
__________________
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baronís cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 07:58 PM   #15
Draven
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rosemount, MN
Posts: 17,986
How on earth am I supposed to sympathize with ANYONE that deliberately kills a newborn baby?

Hand the kid to a cop and run away or something at least. But don't end a child's life because you are too stupid or scared to do anything resembling the right thing.

And I don't know what being a guy has to do with anything. I have two kids of my own and cannot excuse that behavior in any way. She blew her chances by her own actions. And she was DEFINITELY old enough to know better.
__________________
XBL GamerTag: Draven Sinclair
PSN: DravenSinclair
Game Center: Draven-X
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 08:04 PM   #16
TomOpus
DVD Talk Hero
 
TomOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 26,212
Since I can only base my vote on what little facts are present, I voted juvenile.
__________________
"Pear Pimples for Hairy Fishnuts!"

My So-Called DVD Life (Profiler),A Fistful of Discs (DVDAf)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 08:09 PM   #17
fumanstan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
Posts: 41,069
Guy. Adult.
__________________
3x Sheep Champion

VG Round 1b | VG Round 7 | NFL
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 08:39 PM   #18
Septemberbaby
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,495
I'm one of the two who voted, I'm a girl and this is just sad.

I would like to know what SHE THOUGHT her other options were.
I would like to know who got her pregnant.

Did she think she would be disowned if she told her parents that she was pregnant?
Did she try to tell her parents that she was raped by a family member or friend and they wouldn't listen to her so she thought she had no other option?
Did her parents EVER tell her that no matter what, they would support her no matter what she came home and told them?
Or was she told over and over that she would be disowned if she ever got pregnant.
Or did they live in total denial and think that their daughter would NEVER do such a thing.
There's a lot of unanswered questions.

And if it turns out that she just didn't feel like dealing with any of it and drowned her baby because she's a selfish bitch, then so be it.
but until I hear her side, I'm saying that is a very sad situation.

If anything is learned from this, I hope parents who hear about this will sit down and tell their daughters and SONS that they're free to tell them anything and while they're not perfect and their immediate reaction may not be a supportive one.. when the dust settles, they will be there for them and there's nothing they can't get through together.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 08:42 PM   #19
Bandoman
DVD Talk Hero
 
Bandoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Posts: 28,727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnet74
as a juvenile. it's murder.
Yep.
__________________
"...Bando...you are perfect and awesome." - 4KRG

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 10:46 PM   #20
tasha99
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: the North
Posts: 4,823
It's murder, but I think she should be tried as a juvenile. I also think it's very sad.

For those who think she should be tried as an adult, why? In what way is she NOT a juvenile, no matter how heinous or sad you find her crime? I would want to know the story behind her pregnancy (was she raped? abused? neglected?) and what her home life was (was she afraid to tell anyone, so ignorant she didn't know she was pregnant? etc.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 10:52 PM   #21
riotinmyskull
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
riotinmyskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: portsmouth, va
Posts: 9,157
Quote:
Originally Posted by tasha99
It's murder, but I think she should be tried as a juvenile. I also think it's very sad.

For those who think she should be tried as an adult, why? In what way is she NOT a juvenile, no matter how heinous or sad you find her crime? I would want to know the story behind her pregnancy (was she raped? abused? neglected?) and what her home life was (was she afraid to tell anyone, so ignorant she didn't know she was pregnant? etc.)
because she was preggers.
__________________
my collection
rank 'em as you see 'em: 14 | 13 | 12 | 11 | 10 | 09
october horror movie challenge: 14 | 13 | 12 | 11 | 10 | 09 | 08 | 07
holiday movie challenge: 12 | 11 | 10 | 09 | 08
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 11:13 PM   #22
Jadzia
Moderator
 
Jadzia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,158
I can't even imagine how scary that would be for that young girl to go into labor, all alone. I truly think in cases like this it is a desperate situation that makes these girls go so deep in denial about their situation. The whole pregnancy thing is just too much for them to process so they go into this state.

It is easy for people on the outside to say she should have just done this or that, but I think to these girls this happens to, actually making a decision about their pregnancy would make them admit that they are pregnant. The thought of being pregnant at that age is so scary and overwhelming to them and they lack the maturity to think anything other than "If I don't do anything, it will just all go away." But it doesn't go away, and they end up giving birth all alone in a bathroom with no one even there to help. By that time, they are so in denial they just become so divorced from reality and so detached from the situation they don't see it as a baby. I think it is very sad. I think people forget that these young girls who do this are kids themselves. Going through all that alone would push many adult people over the edge, much less an adolescent.

This situation has happened so many times in young girls, I am not sure if the psychiatrists have studied this or named it, but I think it definitely is a psychosis.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-08, 11:18 PM   #23
DVD Polizei
DVD Talk Hero
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Doucheville, OR
Posts: 39,949
I agree with Jadzia. It isn't like this girl had the kid for 5 years and then took a metal pipe to its head. It was a newborn. She just gave birth. Sounds like she freaked out. Where's the premeditation? If this isn't a case for NOT having it, I don't know what is. It is certainly NOT murder.

This case is much different than many other cases we see where HATE and RAGE are a part of the crime. Such as kids killing each other over a video game system, or a boy killing another younger toddler by bludgeoning it to death.
__________________
Blu-ray Titles: ~720 | HD DVD Titles: ~323

"I don't sell airplane parts. I've never sold airplane parts."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-08, 12:50 AM   #24
kvrdave
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 81,732
I don't think most of us are saying don't take anything into consideration at sentencing, but she still took a little human life and intentionally killed it.

What is the difference between what this girl did and what the mom who went through her house and drowned all her kids because of post mortem depression? Apparently some of you agree with me that it is just timing. Or that she wasn't very attached to it yet.
__________________
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baronís cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-08, 01:04 AM   #25
DeputyDave
DVD Talk Legend
 
DeputyDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 13,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPA-ESQ.
oh my! is this worse than a prom night dumpster baby?

Me thinks so!

"Cinco de Mayo fairground upper decker baby"
Perhaps the most tasteless Family Guy scene ever:

__________________
DVDSpot, RIP
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 PM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.