Mother Teresa had doubts about God's existence... - Page 10

FlickMan · 08-24-07, 10:20 PM

God's invisible? I thought he became flesh as in Jesus...whoever sees me sees the Father..my God isnt invisible, He's in Heaven

movielib · 08-24-07, 11:06 PM

I can't believe I missed this thread all day (damn work and Global Warming thread).

Anyway about 98% of it is retreads. Or, more accurately, rerererererereretreads.

About Mother Teresa: I think she was mostly a fraud for many of the reasons that have been given. Maybe even because Rockmjd23 is right that she was a closet atheist.

I certainly believe that many religious people are good, even Catholics (

), just not her so much. Pope John XXIII comes to mind. I'm sure I disagree with him on a great many things but I think he was genuine and probably didn't have a hypocritical bone in his body. I saw his tomb (in 1972) and, believe it or not, I was genuinely moved. And I dearly love all (well, almost all) of my Catholic in-laws.

movielib · 08-24-07, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds

None of those theories make mention of a beginning, not even the Big Bang. In fact, they deliberately avoid considering it, since they cannot say anything about or even define a beginning. They feature starting conditions, such as high density, but those do not constitute the beginning of the universe, only the earliest point about which we can make meaningful statements based on what we know about the cosmos today. Anything before it falls into the category of speculation and myth.

There's a difference between a definite beginning (of everything) and a beginning of what we can know about.

Numanoid · 08-24-07, 11:27 PM

My point is that the way creation, and the nature of God, is described in The Bible is not entirely fanciful given what MIGHT be true, according to science. One day, centuries from now, science may have explored our universe and have found dimensions outside of it, as well. Can't you science worshippers use a little imagination? As I've stated before, a few hundred years ago you guys would have laughed at the notion of germs and mocked believers for having faith in "invisible little beings that cause disease".

Rockmjd23 · 08-24-07, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movielib

I Maybe even because Rockmjd23 is right that she was a closet atheist.

I told ya

Tracer Bullet · 08-24-07, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

Why? If parts are historically accurate, and other parts that were thought to be fiction later turned out to be accurate (Pilot, for example), why must other parts almost assuredly be fiction?

Uh, I'm not the one claiming that the bible is fact. You know who the burden of proof is on. But nice try.

atlantamoi · 08-25-07, 06:35 AM

Back to doubt. I don't find any of the new info about Mother Theresa having doubts to be surprising. It's not realistic to think True Believers don't experience this. Many of my close Christian friends have confided in me their issues, but remain believers. What sort of bothers me is that you can have these doubts, but be restrained by the idea of going to hell or angering god. Can you truly dive into doubts w/out restraint?

From reading ex-testimonies it seems to be the point where some stop beliveing for good. Not being afraid to follow wherever logic and rationality takes you. I'm not saying you can't be a logical Christian, but I do believe there is plenty of compartmentalizion taking place. What looks ludacris in Islam is accepted in Christianity by a Christian.

ViewAskewbian · 08-25-07, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRM114

Loving your family and not harming others.

Can you add downloading porn please, PLEASE, PLEASE! I am sooooo close to decent here.

kvrdave · 08-25-07, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Uh, I'm not the one claiming that the bible is fact. You know who the burden of proof is on. But nice try.

No, you are claiming that it is almost certainly fiction, even though much of it is verified. There will always be parts that are not verifiable, just like multiverses, evolution, voting in Florida, etc.

Look at it this way. It is not uncommon for people to present Evolution as fact. In my own mind, if you want to present it as fact, you should at least be able to give a lineage from chimps to modern humans. Last March (or so) they finally found a jawbone of australopithicene (Lucy) and it turns out to be more like a gorilla than human. It is being talked about as taking it out of the human lineage as a result. There is no "tree" that can be presented, but does it bother you that Evolution is presented as fact? And that is actually a bare minimum that should be required....just a little map. But how many times has that map changed in the last 10 years? And how has the theory actually changed? It can't be changed.....naturalism's survival is at stake.

Tracer Bullet · 08-25-07, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

No, you are claiming that it is almost certainly fiction, even though much of it is verified. There will always be parts that are not verifiable, just like multiverses, evolution, voting in Florida, etc.

So why do you not believe in the truth of, say, the Koran?

There's a book (actually a heterogenous collection of writings spanning thousands of years), and you claim that the events in it actually happened. That's a testable claim about reality, and it's up to you to find evidence of it. I can't prove that something didn't happen, which is what you're asking me to do.

And, "much" of it is verified? How much? Give me some percentages. Point me to the evidence that there were Jewish slaves in Egypt, that Adam and Eve were real people, that the two (

) creation stories in Genesis actually happened, that there was a guy named Job who was tested by god, that Moses was a real person, that Jesus walked on water, rose Lazarus from the dead, and turned water into wine. And this is just the tip of a very ridiculous iceberg.

kvrdave · 08-25-07, 01:32 PM

And here we return to square one.

I'm going to enjoy my weekend.

Tracer Bullet · 08-25-07, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

And here we return to square one.

I'm going to enjoy my weekend.

Yay! I win!

Gunshy · 08-25-07, 03:40 PM

:applause:

I, I love this forum! :sniffle:

-Gunshy

JM · 08-25-07, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

It is not uncommon for people to present Evolution as fact. In my own mind, if you want to present it as fact, you should at least be able to give a lineage from chimps to modern humans. Last March (or so) they finally found a jawbone of australopithicene (Lucy) and it turns out to be more like a gorilla than human. It is being talked about as taking it out of the human lineage as a result. There is no "tree" that can be presented, but does it bother you that Evolution is presented as fact? And that is actually a bare minimum that should be required....just a little map. But how many times has that map changed in the last 10 years? And how has the theory actually changed? It can't be changed.....naturalism's survival is at stake.

There is no lineage from chimps to modern humans, as the latter did not evolve from the former. They both evolved and branched off from a common ancestor. As for a map, here you go:
http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanor...ha/a_tree.html

Is it complete or 100% accurate? No. Go ahead and ask, "Why hasn't X fossil been found?" Well, the conditions for the formation and preservation of a fossil are not common at all. Add to that the vastness of our planet and difficulty in discovering them, and it comes as little surprise. Still, there is enough evidence to support evolution that it is beyond doubt for reasonable people. Don't take everything your church says as truth.

movielib · 08-25-07, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Yay! I win!

Just as long as you know that's not worth anything.

CRM114 · 08-25-07, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Yay! I win!

Were you ever in doubt?

Tracer Bullet · 08-25-07, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by movielib

Just as long as you know that's not worth anything.

I've been around here long enough to know that.

DVD Polizei · 08-25-07, 08:15 PM

I officially want to hand Tracer Bullet, the first DVD Talk Thread Winner Award.

Congrats, TB!

Dignam · 08-25-07, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvrdave

And here we return to square one.

I'll take Jim J. Bullock for the block!

kvrdave · 08-27-07, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

Still, there is enough evidence to support evolution that it is beyond doubt for reasonable people.

None of these people are reasonble? http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...oad.php?id=302

Quote:

Don't take everything your church says as truth.

I don't. I'm a skeptic by nature. You might try it as well.

kvrdave · 08-27-07, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Yay! I win!

I never said that. I said I was going out to enjoy some barbarism and animal cruelty at the rodeo.

08-24-07, 11:06 PM	#227
movielib DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality") Posts: 23,522	I can't believe I missed this thread all day (damn work and Global Warming thread). Anyway about 98% of it is retreads. Or, more accurately, rerererererereretreads. About Mother Teresa: I think she was mostly a fraud for many of the reasons that have been given. Maybe even because Rockmjd23 is right that she was a closet atheist. I certainly believe that many religious people are good, even Catholics ( ), just not her so much. Pope John XXIII comes to mind. I'm sure I disagree with him on a great many things but I think he was genuine and probably didn't have a hypocritical bone in his body. I saw his tomb (in 1972) and, believe it or not, I was genuinely moved. And I dearly love all (well, almost all) of my Catholic in-laws. __________________ "For the researchers, grant dollars and reputations are on the line. For reporters, global warming offers the thrill of covering The Biggest Story Ever Told, an appeal I could not resist. For politicians, it has offered an endless opportunity for grandstanding and power grabs. Convinced they are saving the earth—what could be more rewarding or important?—all three groups helped each other lose their minds" - Ex-alarmist journalist A. Kam Napier Last edited by movielib; 08-24-07 at 11:12 PM.

08-25-07, 06:35 AM	#232
atlantamoi DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Atlanta Posts: 7,346	Back to doubt. I don't find any of the new info about Mother Theresa having doubts to be surprising. It's not realistic to think True Believers don't experience this. Many of my close Christian friends have confided in me their issues, but remain believers. What sort of bothers me is that you can have these doubts, but be restrained by the idea of going to hell or angering god. Can you truly dive into doubts w/out restraint? From reading ex-testimonies it seems to be the point where some stop beliveing for good. Not being afraid to follow wherever logic and rationality takes you. I'm not saying you can't be a logical Christian, but I do believe there is plenty of compartmentalizion taking place. What looks ludacris in Islam is accepted in Christianity by a Christian. __________________ Continues higher education in music knowledge by being schooled though Blogs.

08-25-07, 01:32 PM	#236
kvrdave DVD Talk God Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 67,857	And here we return to square one. I'm going to enjoy my weekend. __________________ Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis

08-25-07, 03:40 PM	#238
Gunshy DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,438	:applause: I, I love this forum! :sniffle: -Gunshy __________________ "I gotta hand it to ya treasure, the last of the V8 Interceptors... a piece of history! Woulda been a shame to... blow it up" Some good deals here: SaveCity

08-25-07, 08:15 PM	#243
DVD Polizei DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: On the edge of sanity Posts: 31,358	I officially want to hand Tracer Bullet, the first DVD Talk Thread Winner Award. Congrats, TB! __________________ Blu-ray Titles: 121 \| HD DVD Titles: 309 "If you think you have the Swine Flu...relax...it's just gas." - DVD P Initial Body Weight on October 2008: 305lbs \| Current Body Weight: 218lbs \| Baseline Body Weight: 219lbs \| Net Weight Loss: 89.5lbs

08-24-07, 10:20 PM	#226
FlickMan Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bridgeview, IL Posts: 474	God's invisible? I thought he became flesh as in Jesus...whoever sees me sees the Father..my God isnt invisible, He's in Heaven

08-24-07, 11:27 PM	#229
Numanoid DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Down in 'The Park' Posts: 21,692	My point is that the way creation, and the nature of God, is described in The Bible is not entirely fanciful given what MIGHT be true, according to science. One day, centuries from now, science may have explored our universe and have found dimensions outside of it, as well. Can't you science worshippers use a little imagination? As I've stated before, a few hundred years ago you guys would have laughed at the notion of germs and mocked believers for having faith in "invisible little beings that cause disease".