I despise taggers & graffiti

[fujishig]

Originally Posted by shoppingbear

How is that not vandalism? That building has SOME owner (even if it's some title-holding bank somewhere, taxpayers, etc), and unless the owner is the tagger, it's vandalism, right? As for the "shit part of town", how much of that is because people don't care about respecting property?

Sorry you're so upset, but just because it's "interesting" doesn't make it right.

Not to mention that the fact that it was gone/painted over in a short period of time shows that the owner didn't want it there.

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight, I read and comprehended everything you (lordzepplin) said, you wanted to make a point that not all graffiti is "bad." You've made your point that not all of it is pointless, but as you say, vandalism is still vandalism.

[mrpayroll]

Originally Posted by lordzeppelin

Vandalism is Vandalism, and the picture I posted is not vandalism. It's from the Alley side of an abandoned building in a shit part of town.

Actually, this is vandalism. Just because it's an abandoned building in a not so nice part of town and just because the 'art' work has some meaning behind it, this is unnecessary and doesn't help the neighborhood in any way.

Chris

[Giles]

personally alot of the graffiti around here in DC isn't art, it looks like someone who doesn't know how to spell, let alone looking anything like real letters.

[lordzeppelin]

Originally Posted by fujishig

Not to mention that the fact that it was gone/painted over in a short period of time shows that the owner didn't want it there.

Anyway, not trying to pick a fight, I read and comprehended everything you (lordzepplin) said, you wanted to make a point that not all graffiti is "bad." You've made your point that not all of it is pointless, but as you say, vandalism is still vandalism.

Fair enough...I'll agree. But sometimes the statement is important enough to exceed the crime. Vandalism or not...some of the images, like the one I posted, are striking.

[mllefoo]

Originally Posted by shoppingbear

How is that not vandalism? That building has SOME owner (even if it's some title-holding bank somewhere, taxpayers, etc), and unless the owner is the tagger, it's vandalism, right? As for the "shit part of town", how much of that is because people don't care about respecting property?

Sorry you're so upset, but just because it's "interesting" doesn't make it right.

Grafitti makes walls look shitty. That's a big part of why the shit part of town looks shitty.

There is a time and a place for artistic expression. The sides of buildings, freeway soundwalls, fences, billboards, and various vehicles sporting grafitti and tags are not good places.

I don't care who the artist is. If you spray it on a wall without the property owner's permission, it's vandalism, and will make the place look ghetto.

[Vibiana]

Legitimizing vandals by calling them "graffiti artists" is part of the problem. It's art when you buy your own canvas and supplies. It ceases to be art when you use someone else's private property as a canvas.

I happen to live in a neighborhood that is decent in itself, but bordered on the north by an industrial district and on the south by a vast, ugly ghetto. Graffiti is everywhere. I don't think it's too strong a statement to say that the message graffiti sends is that the barbarians have overrun the camp. When people cannot count on their private property remaining inviolate to the intrusion, theft, or vandalistic tendencies of others, there is no peace.

[lordzeppelin]

Originally Posted by Vibiana

It's art when you buy your own canvas and supplies. It ceases to be art when you use someone else's private property as a canvas.

Quite a narrow definition of art, don't you think? Look, it's vandalism, fine, but that does not negate the fact that it is, indeed, art. Is vandalism right? No.

[Vibiana]

Originally Posted by lordzeppelin

Quite a narrow definition of art, don't you think? Look, it's vandalism, fine, but that does not negate the fact that it is, indeed, art. Is vandalism right? No.

Actually, no, I don't think. Any condoning of vandalism on the grounds that it is art is unacceptable to me.

[mllefoo]

It is only art in the sense that someone used paint.
Scrawling indecipherable messages to your little gang buddies in multicolored spraypaint is not art, any way you look at it.

Murals, on the other hand, ARE art. Murals are commissioned, and have a positive purpose.

Grafitti only serves to piss off property owners and makes the neighborhood look horrible.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by lordzeppelin

A few of you here need to learn to read, comprehend, and not jump to ridiculous conclusions.

Might as well shut down the politics forum if people start doing that.

FWIW, some grafitti is interesting. It's really become common on railroad equipment. This is probably the best I've seen myself/photographed:



And this is easily the best I've ever seen period.

Spoiler:

[Giantrobo]

I had heard this story and it made me sick. Whether her choice to get involved was right or wrong, she shouldn't have died by some fuckin' Gangbitchwannabe Taggers.

[paulringodaman]

She def. wins "stupidest decision of the year".....but she does not deserve to die...very sad

[Franchot]

Originally Posted by Minor Threat

On the other hand, what the fuck was this lady following the kid for if there's a known gang presence? That was just a dumb move - either way I hope whoever commited the killing does hard time.....

For some reason I've always had a problem with this logic. People in the community are fed up with the graffitti and vandalism problem and have decided do something about it because the politicians in the city have made the police ineffectual. Regular people off the street have decided to stand up to gang members because no-one in their local government can get a handle on the problem.

Dumb? I don't think so. Risky? Sure. But maybe if enough people get involved and stop looking the other way regardless of the danger they are putting themselves in, the local government will wake the fuck up and start protecting the rights of law-abiding taxpayers instead of being politically correct and thinking that gangmembers are some disadvantaged members of society who have the same rights as everyone else. Criminals should be punished and not coddled--plain and simple.

[Giantrobo]

The interviews I heard with people who knew her said she was a "Mother type" who looked after everyone and got involved. So what she did was not out of character. She probably saw the young kid and didn't want to see her neighborhood further degraded by this vandal bastard. Maybe she didn't see the other car? Perhaps if she had seen them, she would've called the police instead.

To be honest I can't fault her for trying to do some good where she lives...

[jiggawhat]

Tagging and illegal immigration go hand in hand. I think once we start deporting more of these mexican illegals who are the ones mostly involved I'd imagine tagging dropping off quite a bit.

[mrhan]

Originally Posted by jiggawhat

Tagging and illegal immigration go hand in hand. I think once we start deporting more of these mexican illegals who are the ones mostly involved I'd imagine tagging dropping off quite a bit.

So, your saying these illegal immigrants tag walls on their time off when their not looking for a job? Give me a fuckin' break. Even though I'm all for protecting the border and preventing illegals from crossing it; I'm sure they aren't here wasting their time tagging.

[CreamyGoodness]

Originally Posted by lordzeppelin

Great guys, let's take what I said out of context and twist it to be fuckin jerks. I should have known better than to provide a different perspective on the "art" versus the crime from the OP.

Yeah, you should have.

A lot of people in here are home owners and don't really give a shit about the 'artistic' merit of what some sub-human piece-of-shit sprays on their personal property. I just moved into a new home about a year ago and I've been hit once (on the side, brick wall). We reported it and it was sandblasted off in less than a week, but if I had caught the guy, (which with these sneaky little fuckers, it's very unlikely), I would have beat him so bad, he would have been in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

[CreamyGoodness]

Originally Posted by Minor Threat

The name he goes by is "KAWS" and his work is brilliant and sells for top dollar. He is one of the commissioned artists for the Simpsons Vans shoes that went around in a thread here a little while back. A simple eBay search on KAWS returns several hits.....

samples of work here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/kaws

Great, now the criminal is making money. What a fucking country!

[CreamyGoodness]

Originally Posted by lordzeppelin

Fair enough...I'll agree. But sometimes the statement is important enough to exceed the crime. Vandalism or not...some of the images, like the one I posted, are striking.

Excellent!

So I guess it's cool if someone paints on your car "Get out of Iraq now!". That's an important statement. Certainly MORE important than the crime of vandalizing your car.

Am I wrong? Are you? Think about it..........

[Boba Fett]

I will always remember this incident fondly:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portl...category=34092

Summary: Tagger vandalizes martial arts school; gets ass kicked and thrown into oncoming traffic.

[Giantrobo]

Originally Posted by Boba Fett

I will always remember this incident fondly:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portl...category=34092

Summary: Tagger vandalizes martial arts school; gets ass kicked and thrown into oncoming traffic.

Snicker snicker...

To be fair, he was hit by a drunk driver....

[CreamyGoodness]

Originally Posted by Boba Fett

I will always remember this incident fondly:

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portl...category=34092

Summary: Tagger vandalizes martial arts school; gets ass kicked and thrown into oncoming traffic.

[Nick Danger]

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/62106.html

Summary: Tagger climbs 15 foot wall topped with razor wire, sits on electrical substation, conducts 115,000 volts, and shuts down state's DMV computers. Tagger dies. Friend says, "He was very artistic."

[Flashback]

Originally Posted by Jason

It's really become common on railroad equipment.

Become? Since at least the early 70's all I remember were railcars (or whatever the proper word is) covered in graffiti.

[Flashback]

This is one of the more famous grafitti artists I remember (I think this was around '80).