Parents complaining about teachers using red ink because it's "too stressful."

[talemyn]

Originally Posted by sracer

It is this whole notion of making children the center... center of the class... center of the family... center of society that results in teens who are not capable of dealing with life. When these self-centered kids become teenagers, they discover that they are NOT the center of the world. (their peers have their own issues to deal with) Not being the center of attention for the first time in their lives, they can't handle it... sometimes resulting in these HS shootings.

I don't disagree with you often, but I'm going to have to here. Kids who aren't capable of dealing with the real world are that way because they don't have people who teach them how to do it. It's not extra attention that causes the problems, it's the lack of productive attention that does. No matter what your childhood was like, the teenage years are new and different and a rocky road to travel and you have a much better chance of successfully making it through if you have someone whose been there there to help you . . . which sometimes means being told that you're wrong.

[Breakfast with Girls]

Originally Posted by jrobinson

Orange is a lighter color than true red and it's not as distinct.

It's not that much lighter and it doesn't have the negative connotations people naturally associate red with. I know you're all screaming "pussification! pussification!" but seriously, there's really no good reason to use red over some other color. I don't even care about what color teachers use. But it's just like when there was a thread about milk coming in bottles instead of paper cups and everybody freaked out.

[Brain Stew]

Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls

It's not that much lighter and it doesn't have the negative connotations people naturally associate red with. I know you're all screaming "pussification! pussification!" but seriously, there's really no good reason to use red over some other color. I don't even care about what color teachers use. But it's just like when there was a thread about milk coming in bottles instead of paper cups and everybody freaked out.

Agreed, completely.

[Tommy Ceez]

Can someone explain how this compares to dodgeball? There STILL WRONG! No one is insinuating that tests should not be graded.

[sracer]

Originally Posted by talemyn

I don't disagree with you often, but I'm going to have to here. Kids who aren't capable of dealing with the real world are that way because they don't have people who teach them how to do it.

I agree with this statement. I contend that placing kids in the center of the universe is NOT teaching them how to deal with the real world.

Originally Posted by talemyn

It's not extra attention that causes the problems, it's the lack of productive attention that does. No matter what your childhood was like, the teenage years are new and different and a rocky road to travel and you have a much better chance of successfully making it through if you have someone whose been there there to help you . . . which sometimes means being told that you're wrong.

Exactly. But when a child gets a note sent home from school, parents invariably take the child's side against the teacher, "my little johnny wouldn't do THAT!" When parents change the family dynamic such that the child has a disproportionate amount of input into family decisions, that is a recipe for disaster.
The underlying sentiment in focusing on the child is never telling the child they are wrong. Parents who place the children at the center of their family place a greater importance on the child's feelings than on the child's need to obey and being considerate of others.

As a coach of youth sports, I get a glimpse into what teachers have to deal with. There are way too many parents who place a greater importance on Johnny's ego than on following common sense rules.

[uberjoe]

Seriously, why do people keep bringing up dodgeball? It doesn't compare to grading with red ink. It doesn't even compare to other sports. You don't get to hit people with a bat in baseball. There's no dribbling off a face in basketball. Track meets don't end with flying two-legged kicks to the chest. In dodgeball, the goal is to hit someone, and it always ends up being the big kids beating up on the smaller kids. Because they can. Fuck that.

What lesson does the violent dodgeball teach that other, non-violent sports can't teach in a gym class? Certainly not sportsmanship.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by uberjoe

Seriously, why do people keep bringing up dodgeball? It doesn't compare to grading with red ink. It doesn't even compare to other sports. You don't get to hit people with a bat in baseball. There's no dribbling off a face in basketball. Track meets don't end with flying two-legged kicks to the chest. In dodgeball, the goal is to hit someone, and it always ends up being the big kids beating up on the smaller kids. Because they can. Fuck that.

What lesson does the violent dodgeball teach that other, non-violent sports can't teach in a gym class? Certainly not sportsmanship.

How about simply the fact that dodgeball was fun and I certainly wasn't one of the bigger kids. I damn sure learned how to jump, dodge, and catch the ball better though. Good for quickening reflexes.

I think people bring up the elimination of dodgeball as another example of the PC insanity that takes place in our education system.

[Bandoman]

Maybe it was the dodgeball drills when the coach would throw wrenches at us that brought an end to that sport.

[uberjoe]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

How about simply the fact that dodgeball was fun and I certainly wasn't one of the bigger kids. I damn sure learned how to jump, dodge, and catch the ball better though. Good for quickening reflexes.

I think people bring up the elimination of dodgeball as another example of the PC insanity that takes place in our education system.

I wasn't one of the bigger kids, either, but I was screwed with because of my dad's job, and dodgeball gave people the chance to smack me in the face. How is it "PC insanity" not to want to be hit in the face? Can't you just out run me in a race, or drive by me on a crossover? There are better ways to get in shape and quicken reflexes.

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by uberjoe

There are better ways to get in shape and quicken reflexes.

I'm sure there are, but they are not as fun. Also, we had a rule where if you hit someone in the face, you were out. Kids like to win, so that was pretty effective in stemming that problem.

[uberjoe]

Originally Posted by Red Dog

I'm sure there are, but they are not as fun. Also, we had a rule where if you hit someone in the face, you were out. Kids like to win, so that was pretty effective in stemming that problem.

Well, it sure as shit hurt when they hit me in other places, too. But, I don't thnk we'll be changing each other's minds, so I'll just be happy I'm not a kid anymore, and don't have to go to gym.

Thought now that I think about, some dodging skills would be handy when I walk around my downtown Baltimore neighborhood at night.

[sracer]

Originally Posted by uberjoe

I wasn't one of the bigger kids, either, but I was screwed with because of my dad's job, and dodgeball gave people the chance to smack me in the face. How is it "PC insanity" not to want to be hit in the face? Can't you just out run me in a race, or drive by me on a crossover? There are better ways to get in shape and quicken reflexes.

Mean kids will always find a way to pick on you if they are so inclined. If it isn't dodgeball, it will be taunts on the playground at recess, biting remarks while standing in line, doodles in their notebook depicting you picking your nose.

As for being hit in the face, not every ball thrown was a headshot. Dodgeball is basically, "paintball for kids". There's a reason why kids go crazy for dodgeball. And it's the same reason why older kids and adults enjoy paintball. Look at the reasons why dodgeball games are gone... you'll find few of those reasons to be "safety" related.

Originally Posted by Red Dog

I'm sure there are, but they are not as fun. Also, we had a rule where if you hit someone in the face, you were out. Kids like to win, so that was pretty effective in stemming that problem.

Yep... we had a "no headshot" rule when I was a kid too. But given today's society and the cry of parents to stop the dodgeball insanity, i figured that dodgeball had turned into "Thunderdome Jr."

[mverleg1]

Based on the article, purple is supposed to be the new red. Bullshit! In my grading (college freshmen engineering students) fat red marker has become the new thin red pen. We've coddled kids to the point that they are incapable of actually learning from experience. With kids today now having the attention span of a hummingbird, if you don't point out their errors in a way that screams "YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND YOU SCREWED UP!!!", they have already moved on.

[Mr. Salty]

Originally Posted by Brain Stew

You guys are just as dramatic as the parents complaining about red ink. A couple of stupid parents complain and you act like the sky is falling.

I guess you didn't bother to read the original story or many of the posts in this thread.

The problem isn't that a few parents complained, it's that the school actually caved and banned teachers from using red ink in order to appease the whiny parents.

[Mr. Salty]

Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls

People use red for the exact reason that some people have a problem with it.

You can't seriously believe that the reason teachers used red ink is because they believe "people have a problem with it." As if they're sitting behind their big teachers' desks (pretty soon children will be upset the teachers have larger desks than they do) thinking how they can mentally torture little Billy and Suzy by marking their wrong answers in red ink.

[Breakfast with Girls]

Originally Posted by Mr. Salty

You can't seriously believe that the reason teachers used red ink is because they believe "people have a problem with it." As if they're sitting behind their big teachers' desks (pretty soon children will be upset the teachers have larger desks than they do) thinking how they can mentally torture little Billy and Suzy by marking their wrong answers in red ink.

I think you misunderstood my post. I mean, "people use red because we associate it with alarm, error, warning" -- to get the reader to take notice. But these are generally stressful situations to encounter. It also is associated with anger and rage, and I'd bet that has a subconscious effect, as well.

Incidentally, from the sounds of some of these posts, I wouldn't be surprised if some graders did use big red pens just to mentally torture students -- see mverleg1's condescending post, for example.

[Brain Stew]

Originally Posted by Mr. Salty

I guess you didn't bother to read the original story or many of the posts in this thread.

The problem isn't that a few parents complained, it's that the school actually caved and banned teachers from using red ink in order to appease the whiny parents.

I read them, and its one school. In a district I don't live in or have children that go to it. My point was that DVDTalk loves to make mountains out of molehills and constantly say, "THEY'RE CODDLING GODDAMMIT!"

[talemyn]

Originally Posted by sracer

Exactly. But when a child gets a note sent home from school, parents invariably take the child's side against the teacher, "my little johnny wouldn't do THAT!" When parents change the family dynamic such that the child has a disproportionate amount of input into family decisions, that is a recipe for disaster.
The underlying sentiment in focusing on the child is never telling the child they are wrong. Parents who place the children at the center of their family place a greater importance on the child's feelings than on the child's need to obey and being considerate of others.

Okay, I think that you and I are just using different understandings of "the center of". In my mind, I was thinking of it as meaning, when people make raising your children a priority in their lives. This would include taking the time and energy to look into checking into a childs behavior at school rather than dismissing a note from the teacher and telling them that they are wrong when they are.

I think I took the opposite view of the phrase because, in my mind, when you refuse to tell a child that they are wrong and cater to their whims, you are really taking the "easy" way out of raising them. So, in fact, you aren't making them the center of your world, you are making yourself the center of your world. To make them the center of your world, you would have to put their true wellfare first.

Originally Posted by sracer

As a coach of youth sports, I get a glimpse into what teachers have to deal with. There are way too many parents who place a greater importance on Johnny's ego than on following common sense rules.

I'm right there with you . . . I am a youth counselor with are youth group at church. It's pretty appalling what some of the parents will let their kids get away with.

[talemyn]

Originally Posted by uberjoe

Seriously, why do people keep bringing up dodgeball? It doesn't compare to grading with red ink. It doesn't even compare to other sports. You don't get to hit people with a bat in baseball. There's no dribbling off a face in basketball. Track meets don't end with flying two-legged kicks to the chest. In dodgeball, the goal is to hit someone, and it always ends up being the big kids beating up on the smaller kids. Because they can. Fuck that.

You've obviously never played lacrosse or football.

Originally Posted by uberjoe

What lesson does the violent dodgeball teach that other, non-violent sports can't teach in a gym class? Certainly not sportsmanship.

The reason why I brought up dodgeball was that, in all the times that I've seen the idea of removing dodgeball from schools get covered in the news, the violence aspect of it is often not on the list of reasons. Almost without fail, one of the driving ponts behind it is that, in dodgeball, when you get hit, you don't get to play anymore (at least not until the next game starts). People condsidered this "damaging" because it meant that the less athletic kids didn't get to play as much and that made them feel bad about their lack of athletic skills.



I find that sentiment very disturbing. Some people are more athletic than others . . . some are smarter than others . . . some are prettier/more ahndsome than others and in each case, one group has the advantage over the other in that area. Heaven forbid that kids should learn to deal with occasional failure and/or to recognize their personal strengths and weaknesses.

mllefoo hit the nail on the head . . . Harrison Bergeron . . . we're getting closer every day.

[Mr. Salty]

Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls

Incidentally, from the sounds of some of these posts, I wouldn't be surprised if some graders did use big red pens just to mentally torture students -- see mverleg1's condescending post, for example.

Well, if we can't spank 'em any more, we should at least get to mentally torture the little bastards!

[mikehunt]

instead of bitching about pen color the parents should help the kids study and learn so that there are less marks, regardless of color, on the papers

[Cameron]

forget red ink...lets get back to...

[davejt1]

Originally Posted by talemyn

The reason why I brought up dodgeball was that, in all the times that I've seen the idea of removing dodgeball from schools get covered in the news, the violence aspect of it is often not on the list of reasons. Almost without fail, one of the driving ponts behind it is that, in dodgeball, when you get hit, you don't get to play anymore (at least not until the next game starts). People condsidered this "damaging" because it meant that the less athletic kids didn't get to play as much and that made them feel bad about their lack of athletic skills.

Exactly what I was going to say. Many of the arguments against dodgeball didn't center on the violent aspect of it, but rather, the fact that not everybody can win. In a sense, it ranks students from worst to best, and this supposidly had a negative impact on kids' self-esteem.

Similar to this, some schools even eliminated the process of "choosing teams," as this hurt kids' self-esteem as well (at least the kids who were picked last, that is). In addition, some schools also eliminated such activities as the rope climb, since some students could not climb the rope (and thus, be shown to be less athletic and singled out).

Yes, there are some people who blame school shootings squarely on such incidents.

A lot of schools are mandating team-based activities in gym that level the playing field and don't allow more athletic students to show off and/or less athletic students to appear weaker and perhaps subject to ridicule. This would eliminate any "individual" type activities, such as track and field - such sports were to be saved for intramurals and varsity, thereby giving kids the choice of participating in the sport instead of being required to do so (and possible embarrassing themselves) in gym class.

Of course, this is somewhat a moot point, as many schools are facing budget crunches that are forcing them to eliminate gym classes (and art classes, home ec, shop class, music, etc.) altogether. Related to this, doctors say that our kids are too fat and need more exercise. Hmmmmm - quite the vicious circle. This is all quite unfortunate, IMHO. Let the kids play.

Oh, and in terms of why dodgeball relates to red ink, it all falls under the umbrella of political correctness in schools, and the question of whether PC has gone too far.

[sracer]

Originally Posted by Cameron

forget red ink...lets get back to...

5/5

[Red Dog]

Originally Posted by Cameron

forget red ink...lets get back to...