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Old 12-07-03, 10:57 PM   #1
Josh-da-man
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P.O.D. album pulled from Christian bookstores

http://www.roadrun.com/blabbermouth....wsitemID=17170

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Christian rock act P.O.D. have apparently had their latest CD banned by 85% of Christian bookstores in the U.S., who say the album cover is "occult".
[more in link]

85%? That's "most" and damned close to "all."

And the cover in question:



Well, ya stumped me. I have no idea what those 85% of Christian bookstores are freaked out about. Anybody want to explain this to me?
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Old 12-07-03, 11:11 PM   #2
sararekuforever
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CCM is worse than the regular industry. You'd be surprised how many artists get shut out. Check out what happens to Stacie Orrico and Rachel Lampa, even Jaci Velasquez gets a lot of heat. And only God knows the extent to which they are trying to break Avalon up. Sarah Sadler [my favorite female soloist of these days, christian or secular] was completely stopped by CCM industry, and not given a valid chance.

However, check out ZOEgirl, Shaun Groves, Third Day, etc. CCM's little pawns, kind of like the mainstream oversells hip hop and punk rock and what not.

It's a horrid industry, hopefully all these poor groups will be redeemed
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Old 12-08-03, 02:29 AM   #3
Giantrobo
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This kinda crap is why Christian bands are BETTER OFF dealing with NON-CHRISTIAN music companies

I worked in Christian Radio over 10 years and crap like this is typical.....
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Old 12-08-03, 03:04 AM   #4
Josh-da-man
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But what are they seeing on the cover that I'm not? I see nothing that I would consider remotely occult.
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Old 12-08-03, 04:47 AM   #5
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I guess it "kinda" looks like an "eastern goddess" if you stretch your mind....
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Old 12-08-03, 07:20 AM   #6
DGibFen
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I think a couple of symbols have been called into question because they might have occultic meaning.

I still bought the album

This is the second time that Christian bookstores have refused to stock a POD album because it had questionable artwork. The Fundamental Elements of Southtown was called into question too. In response, the record label (and POD) blackened out most of the art on the cover so that the Christian bookstores would sell it.

But Christian bookstores and music labels and radio stations, like most everything in a music business, pander to the taste of the demographic that will purchase most of the music. Unfortunatly, that demographic listens to mostly the "feel good" AAA type stuff.

I think that Christian bookstores have the right to be selective with what they can and cannot sell; after all, they are still within rights to refuse to sell something because it contradicts their beliefs. But in some cases, yeah, it does get a bit radiculous.
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Old 12-08-03, 10:48 AM   #7
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Pretty much, in my opinion and quite honestly

Dove, Sparrow, Word, and Essential combined are worse than the RIAA. Artists get shut out if they don't sell millions, certain genre of music are completely forgotten or abandoned, anything that isn't over the top Christian is shunned, and even artists who have actual talent are forced to perform stereotypical Nashville "Christian Contemporary"

Even groups that fit the norm get a lot of heat. As I mentioned, Avalon, is crumbling a little more everyday because of the pressure Sparrow puts on them. Two original members have been dropped, two new replacements come in, Sparrow just doesn't know when to quit. What is even worse, the original members wanted a little change in the music, going for a more dance pop feel, which was very well done [O2 remixed and Oxygen album] but the executives decided they should go back to their old [and quite boring] typical CCM song, created a best of album which is actually all their worst songs combined, and decided their new album should be rehash of praise and worship.

As for Stacie Orrico, she constantly gets preached on for airing her videos on MTV and placing her record among regular records and not just Christian ones. Finally, a Christian "artist" [and I say artist in quotes because Stacie is as fake as Britney] stops salting the salt and spreads her "message" to the world, and the entire Christian music is in uproar, just because she decided to record positive and wholesome music for the masses, instead of more "Praise you Jesus" type music that does nothing but amuse the CCM/church community and does nothing for actual ministry. Oh, and according to CCM, she's a prostitute for wearing cute clothing and not looking like a nun.

More than anything, there are genre that mainstream CCM does not care about. I have yet to see a truthfully good dance group in CCM. The closest thing possible was ZOEgirl's second album Life, and Remix of Life, which had several good pieces [except for the dumb R&B/Rap pop on the albums, the rest was great dance pop] but that quickly got shut down when ZOE [more like Sparrow] decided ZOE would suddenly become a rock band and record silly Avril type music that tries to be all deep..and their fans are eating up...money money money...

And then as I said, Sarah Sadler. If you haven't heard of her, I don't blame you. Essential [mostly known for Third Day and Jars of Clay] signed her and let her release a wonderful pop album with tons of dance influences and great acoustic and string work. Her voice is like an angel's, soft, sweet, not over done, and the lyrics were positive and uplifting and very loving and sweet. I mean, it was obvious she loved what she was doing, she loved God, she loved her boyfriend, her family, etc, and that the girl came up with most of it herself [and her father] was really impressive. More than that, she actually had studied voice, and was a decent pianist and guitarist. What did Essential do? Shut her down because she didn't sell millions like JoC or Third Day. Yet for many people I know [especially Sarah and me] she was one of the few Christian artists we actually liked and actually made us feel closer to God and each other as well..yet she was done away with.

I could care less though, I'll be pioneering Spanish/Japanese Christian pop and will make sure that there are no huge monopoly of foreign CCM...and that it will all be real music

I mean, if it is for God, the music should be way better than the "secular" stuff

I am happy listening to classic hard and prog rock, dance pop, and Spanish/Japanese music though..it's all I need
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Old 12-08-03, 12:15 PM   #8
DodgingCars
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Quote:
Originally posted by Giantrobo
This kinda crap is why Christian bands are BETTER OFF dealing with NON-CHRISTIAN music companies

I share this same opinion. It's my opinion (now) that the Christian music industry has become a joke. It was originally meant to give artists a record deal who couldn't get them in the secular market, but more and more Christian artists (such as P.O.D., Blindside, MxPx, etc) have broken into the mainstream market. There is little need for a huge Christian recording industry when these artists can get signed and sell records in the secular market.

I seen nothing remotely occult about the cover and the artist who drew it basically told those offended to research art history.
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Old 12-08-03, 12:20 PM   #9
DodgingCars
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sararekuforever,

Isn't it ironic that Christians would be upset that Christian bands would want to spread a Christian message on mainstream radio and television? It's sad that many want to confine the message to TBN and Christian radio. Preaching to the choir, anyone?

It's sick.. That's why some Christian bands have opted to remove themselves from the "subculture" and gone to the secular market. Recently Slick Shoes, Stretch Armstrong, and Further Seems Forever have all moved into the more secular parts of their music genres (punk, emo, hardcore). Some Christian bands purposely ask that their stuff not be sold in Christian bookstores so that their fans are forced to leave their little Christian bubble and go out to Tower to buy their records...
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Old 12-08-03, 01:35 PM   #10
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Yes,it's sick.

However, I've seen a little change. Lots of local big time churches in Houston are airing their sermons [Lakewood, First Baptist] on cable television and local networks, instead of TBN or Daystar..which is good..to see gospel and ministry on networks that would usually show Blind Date, Girls Gone Wild, or Divorce Court at that time...and the sermons seem to pull a lot of ratings

It is smart move to make Christians go to other record dstores. And I don't know why lots of Christians are so afraid of "secular" music. Most of the more talented Christian bands and soloists idolize "secular" music, whether it be U2, Led Zeppelin, or whatever starlet is popular at the moment.
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Old 12-08-03, 05:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by DodgingCars
sararekuforever,


Recently Slick Shoes, Stretch Armstrong, and Further Seems Forever have all moved into the more secular parts of their music genres (punk, emo, hardcore).
actually, stretch arm strong isn't a christian band...never was. they only have 1 or 2 members that are christian. FSF is neither a christian band. They don't even sing about God. I think they had 1 "christian" song on their the moon is down album, but other than that, i think they are just christians playing music for a business...although i really dig FSF and SAS! And tooth and nail isn't a christian label either, it's just that most the bands are christian...

Jason X.
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Old 12-08-03, 05:50 PM   #12
Alvis
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Funny thing about us conservative Christians, we're supposed to be "in the world, but not of it," and then we build our own little Christian box and don't even want to be a part of the world at all. Kind of the opposite of what Jesus preached, "For I came to save the world, not to condemn it."
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Old 12-08-03, 06:30 PM   #13
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What I love is how Christian Radio (at least Salem) and others shun Christian Metal. If it doesn't have a moderate tempo and toned down guitars then it's of Satan

My old station manager....old in years and in talent... toned down the music on one of our "Christian music" stations although it was clear the harder edged music was getting POSITIVE responses from both Christian and NON Christians who didn't know we could ROCK.

Frankly, the ONLY way you'll get NON-CHRISTIANS to listen is if it's GOOD MUSIC THEY CAN RELATE TOO.

Amy Grant, Sandi Patty, and Rich Mullins don't do the job for THIS generation. They have their time and place but not in this generation.
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Old 12-08-03, 08:36 PM   #14
Frank TJ Mackey
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It's about time.

These poor impressionable Christian children should not be under the influence of this kind of satanic trash.


Suppose they were start listening to their lyrics about "youths" and "nations" and "being alive", then they may turn over to the dark side.

Shame on the religious bookstores. Go back to your fund-raising and leave the music alone.
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Old 12-10-03, 10:08 AM   #15
DGibFen
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I wouldn't completely knock the whole thing, Frank. Like I posted above, many of these stores are pandering towards a common customer base, which they rely on in order to stay alive. Right now, a lot of Christians (for some reason) perfer to purchase albums that are really lacking the edge of being new music. (Plus the whole Praise+Worship movement has gone way overboard - I think the 120 or so versions of "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever" is a bit much.)

Besides, some Christians are willing to take chances. This year's top 12 list at Christianity Today is full of some pretty bold choices, stuff that isn't really considered the "forefront" of the CCM industry as far as record sales go.

Here the link and the records they picked, BTW:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/mus...003bestof.html

12. Old - Starflyer 59
11. How to Start a Fire - Further Seems Forever
10. Unclassified - Robert Randolph & the Family Band
9. Me Died Blue - Steven Delopoulos
8. So Much for Substitutes - downhere
7. Perfect Change - Dakona
6. Jill Paquette - Jill Paquette
5. She Must and Shall Go Free - Derek Webb
4. Ghosts - Sleeping at Last
3. Who We Are Instead - Jars of Clay
2. Stacie Orrico - Stacie Orrico
1. The Beautiful Letdown - Switchfoot

The Runners-Up included:
Ohio - Over the Rhine
Fallen - Evanescence
The End Is Near - Five Iron Frenzy
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Old 12-11-03, 03:08 PM   #16
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I was just in a Family Christian bookstore, which is one of the biggest Christian retaillers, and I saw the P.O.D. album in question. Although maybe they're in the 15% that still carries it.
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