Kelly Osbourne - Shut Up

[Penny Lane]

I wish she would.....

[I don't have a name]

Art is NOT entertainment. The purpose of art is to create an emotion; a reaction from the viewer (or listener, in this case). Whether it's a good or bad reaction, that all depends on the viewer since people have *gasp* different opinions. Considering this thread is 3 pages long with multiple posts from the same users, she definetly got a reaction from you guys.

I, for one, am glad she made this album. I've only heard the cover song and the shut up song, both of which I do not like at all. But I think if the album does well, her future albums could have much potential.

Saying she has little to talent is absurd. She at least put forth the effort to make an album comprised of songs clocking in at 40 minutes. How many albums have you made? She's trying, and I think it could be good later on down the road. Her tastes will change (when i was 17-18, I like rage against the machine, tool, dave mathews band, phish, nine inch nails, deftones, incubus...now, at 23 i can't stand them).

[Hondo]

Originally posted by I don't have a name
Art is NOT entertainment. The purpose of art is to create an emotion; a reaction from the viewer (or listener, in this case). Whether it's a good or bad reaction, that all depends on the viewer since people have *gasp* different opinions. Considering this thread is 3 pages long with multiple posts from the same users, she definetly got a reaction from you guys.

I respectfully disagree. To me the purpose of art is to CONVEY an emotion, world view, opinion , statement on the human condition, etc. If the sole purpose of art is to get a reaction, then all an artist ever has to do is come up with something shocking. It's easy to get a reaction out of people. The Piss Christ installation produced a violent reaction. Does that alone make it art? Art does not have to be entertaining and entertainment does not have to be art, but the two are not mutually exclusive.

Saying she has little to talent is absurd. She at least put forth the effort to make an album comprised of songs clocking in at 40 minutes. How many albums have you made?

I've made two. Both were original music composed by myself or the band. I don't think questioning her talent is absurd at all. The issue is not making the record. It's really not that hard to come up with 40 minutes of material, if you have some dedication and at least a little talent. What is hard is coming up with the money for studio time, engineer, producer, mastering, and printing. What's really hard is to get anyone to listen to you over the din of all the other acts looking for a deal. By all indications (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), the deal was pretty much handed to her. Do you honestly believe that if Kelly Osbourne was not Ozzy's daughter and not on TV ten times a week, that she would have gotten this opportunity? Or, for that matter, that anyone would be buying the disk? There are lots of talented musicians singers, and songwriters out there who don't have the benefit of being a TV celebrity before they put out their first CD. This alone does not make her unworthy. It does give her an "unfair advantage" over the average budding singer.

She's trying, and I think it could be good later on down the road. Her tastes will change (when i was 17-18, I like rage against the machine, tool, dave mathews band, phish, nine inch nails, deftones, incubus...now, at 23 i can't stand them).

I'm not questioning her taste in material. And you may be right that she is trying her very best. So what? Every crap bar band from one end of the country to the other is "trying". The fact is, Kelly Osbourne has been given a recording contract based on little more than her celebrity. Will her CD make money? Absolutely. Does it have ANYTHING to do with her talent? I doubt it. That is the problem with the recording industry today. Talent is irrelevant. It's only about how many units you sell.

You may be correct and Kelly will blossem into a fantastic talent. If that is the case, I'll eat my words. But, right now, she's selling based on the fact that she is on a TV show with her famous dad. If I was a betting man, I would put down money that "Shut Up" will be in the cutout bin by June.

BTW, what music do you like, now that you've grown out of those other bands that you listed?

[MJKTool]

Originally posted by I don't have a name
Art is NOT entertainment. The purpose of art is to create an emotion

Well what do you think music does? Does music not create emotion. If anything music for alot people creates tons of emotion? Do you not consider music art?

Saying she has little to talent is absurd. She at least put forth the effort to make an album comprised of songs clocking in at 40 minutes. How many albums have you made?

Oh brother!!!
Give me all the money in the world, a dad who is a God to alot of people, a new hit show and see how easy it would be for me to make a CD and get it to the masses. The ONLY reason she is making this CD is because her recent 15 fame. And dont give me that "she at least put effort crap". The fact that her "music career" got started by covering a Madonna song should be an indicator. And I can guarantee you the only contributing she has made to this music career are 1.)Her name 2.) Her lousy over produced voice 3.)Possibly lyrics (and that is not saying a hell of alot). And I also can guarantee you she had nothing to do creating the music itself.

That is the reason she anoys the hell out of me. Her music career is fake as hell, only resulting from her recent fame. On the other hand you have tons of talented musicians out there who will never see the light of day to alot of people. But Im sure if their daddy was Ozzy they would have no problem.

[Aghama]

Originally posted by Hondo
That is the problem with the recording industry today. Talent is irrelevant. It's only about how many units you sell.

When has it not been about how many units you sell? Just because talent can equal money does not mean that record companies give a damn about it, they've always been concerned with the other side of the equation. Hence "industry."

[I don't have a name]

First off, yes, I consider art to be music. I never said that it wasn't. Someone mentioned earlier that art is entertainment, when it's not (to me, at least). Art does not have to be entertaining. That's the point I was trying to make there.

Secondly, I never mentioned that she got the record deal based on artistic merit or talent. I know she was handed a record contract because of the show and who her dad is. All I was trying to say is that it could be good later on down the road once she has goes up a bit, has vocal training, and maybe learns some music theory (in that order, preferable). I know she has an unfair advantage, but there's not anything anyone can do about it. I've read some reviews and it sounds like it's not horrible. It's just horrible to the people who already hate her from the show and won't give it a chance. Remember, it's all opinion.

My list is music is extremely diverse, but i'll try to break it down.

Estradasphere - a local Santa Cruz band. they play everything, from death metal to bluegrass to gypsy music to video game music. All of the members (except for the drummer) play about 3-4 different instruments.

Mr. Bungle - I like the first album and the last one the most, california. Don't care too much for Disco Volante

Hank the 3rd - best live show I've seen. period.

Melvins
Tomahawk
Fantomas
FantomasMelvins Bigband - I am a huge Mike Patton fan. I am trying to get all the albums from his label, Ipecac Records.

Secret Chiefs 3 - Trey Spurance is also good. I only have Book M and it's more like Mr. Bungle-ish indian-type music.

Aphex Twin - I love Richard James, but not all the time. His latest album "Drugks" is a marvel. I like Bjork's stuff too

Death/grind metal:
Nile
Cryptopsy
Meshuggah
Gorguts
Death
At the Gates

I also love underground rap. As far as music goes, rap or just in general, anything on the radio is garbage to me. I try not to listen to the radio by all means nessicary, but I am forced to sometimes (at work, espically). The state of hip hop (or pop-pop as I call it) is pathetic. Not to change the subject, but I'm making a shirt that says on the front "Rap sucks" and the back listed off like Fight Club quotes stuff like "you are not your bling bling; you are not your 22" rims; you are not your prada or gucci shoes, you are not your fuc%ing Escalade...etc.etc. Ok, my underground stuff are these guys: (copy and pasted from an eariler post I made)

El-P - Fantastic Damage......I think this album has the best beats and lyrics I've ever heard. Nothing short of amazing.

Get anything by Dan the Automator....his album "wanna buy a monkey?" or the stuff he did as Deltron 3030 and Dr. Octogon

MF Doom - also extremely good.


Company Flow - Funcrucher +
Organized Konfusion - Stress "the Extinction Agenda"
MF Doom - Operation Doomsday
Lovage - Music to make to your Old Lady by
Cannibal Ox - A Cole Vein
Saul Williams - Amethyst Rockstar
Sensational

Also a big fan of Theatrical scores (not movie soundtracks). Danny Elfman, David Julyan and Angelo Badalamenti are my favorite composers. Stuff like Mullholland Drive, Memento, 2001, Clockwork Orange, Insomnia, Fight Club, to name a few.

For country/folk type music, i tend to stray away from all together with a very few exceptions. Jonny Cash and Leonard Cohen

That's all I can think of for now. I am forgetting the rest of my collection (about 70%) but I don't listen to it that much more nowadays.

[MJKTool]

Originally posted by I don't have a name
First off, yes, I consider art to be music. I never said that it wasn't. Someone mentioned earlier that art is entertainment, when it's not (to me, at least). Art does not have to be entertaining. That's the point I was trying to make there.

Your contradicting yourself. You said earlier:

The purpose of art is to create an emotion; a reaction from the viewer

Does not music create emotion? Music creates TONS of emotions for people, even to the point of therapy.

[Giantrobo]

Originally posted by MJKTool
Well if we are going to be cute here. "Prison Sex" is actually a metaphore for child abuse. Meaning that children are trapped and raped like inmates are trapped and raped in prison. Thus the term Prison Sex.

That is alot of problems people have with Tool, coming to quick judgements and basing their judgements without proper knowledge and thinking a little deeper. Dont ever try me on Tool knowledge my friend

Just for the record, you will find TOOL cd's in my collection so don't think I'm trying to put them down

I'm just giving you grief for giving my Sweet, plump, pale, Kelly crap. You're doing it just because she's lucky enough to be born in family that makes it easy to get into the industry.

We should all be so lucky.

[I don't have a name]

Originally posted by MJKTool
Your contradicting yourself. You said earlier:



Does not music create emotion? Music creates TONS of emotions for people, even to the point of therapy.

HOw am I contridicting myself again? Art is not entertainment, meaning it can be entaining, but not all the time. The purpose of art is not to entertain, but to create an emtion. Music creates an emotion. Music is art. Where did I say music is not art again? Oh yeah, I didn't.

[MJKTool]

Originally posted by I don't have a name
HOw am I contridicting myself again?

Art is not entertainment, meaning it can be entaining.

[I don't have a name]

Originally posted by MJKTool
Art is entertainment.

Let me spell it out for you since you are not getting the point (to which, i'll take credit for the confusion because i was a little heated and didn't explain myself).

Art (music, film, painting, books, poems, whatever) is not always entertainment. Art can be entertaining, but it is not always under the claffifaction of entertainment, as you stated earlier (or so I took from that post). If art were entertainment, it would always entertain, right? (no such thing as bad entertainment....that's an oxymoron, like sushi chef or an american taxi driver). The art and music that each person likes is entertainment for them, but not to others. To each his own. That is all. Hope this helps.

[MJKTool]

Dude seriously this is stupid. Lets put this ridiculous conversation behind us, because nobody is right or wrong. Anybody can make something anything what they want it to be. There are not set laws saying that art cannot be entertaining most of the time. You think the main purpose of art is not meant to entertain but to cause "emotion". Fine. Do we want to sit here going back and forth defining "emotion"? I dont. Entertainment stirs up emotion as well, am I wrong in saying that? Later

[custom001]

it kinda occurs to me you don't like the new Jello single either, do you MJK