PLEASE READ THIS FIRST: Music Talk DOs and DON'Ts

[benedict]

New members and, er.... others may be unaware of the following which I have cribbed shamelessly from an excellent document composed by Static Cling

What is a threadcrap?

A "threadcrap" is a term we've come to use here at DVD Talk for a post (usually negative) that is off the topic of the thread in which it is posted, or criticizes/ridicules the thread starter or the thread itself. Threadcraps usually have no reasoning behind them, but this is not always the case. This definition is not meant to be all inclusive, but it is meant to give you a general idea of what the term means. Ultimately, the moderators hold the final word on what is or is not a threadcrap.

Can you give me an example?

One commonly seen threadcrap is someone posting that "___________ is a crappy song/artiste" in a thread dedicated to information about the CD/concert etc. The point of the thread isn't really to discuss the quality of the artiste, but to discuss the CD/concert etc

Another commonly seen threadcrap is quoting someone else's post and saying "that's a stupid thing to say." If you think someone's wrong, point out the correct information or provide your interpretation of events without attacking the other person.

What's the big deal about threadcraps?

The purpose of the DVD Talk Forum is discussion. Threadcraps interfere with the flow of discussion. Something that goes against the purpose of the forum and rudely interrupts a discussion between members has no place on this forum.

What should I do if I think I see a threadcrap?

1. Don't reply to it with a snide (or otherwise) remark. Although it's often fun , it just leaves more for moderators to clean up afterwards. And since it's a reply to an off-topic comment, the reply itself is probably off-topic, so it doesn't belong in the thread either.

2. Do click on the "Report this post to a moderator" link that is in the post. An e-mail will be sent the moderators of the forum, and they will decide on what action to take. This could be anywhere from nothing (if the post is actually on-topic) to a suspension or banning (for repeat offenders), or anything in between.

------------------------------

Appendix

What do I do if I feel that one of my posts was wrongly deleted as a threadcrap?

1. Don't post about it in the thread. It's possible that the moderator who deleted your post will never read that thread again, so he won't see your concern and/or complaint. In addition, if the first post wasn't off topic, this second post about the first post definitely is.

2. If you'd like, do e-mail that moderator directly about the post. You are much, much more likely to get a response if you send an e-mail to the moderator.

[Aghama]

A "threadcrap" is a term we've come to use here at DVD Talk for a post (usually negative) that is off the topic of the thread in which it is posted, or criticizes/ridicules the thread starter or the thread itself.

This is lumping "hijacking" (innocuous off-topic posting) in with "thread-crapping." You might also want to make the distinction that criticism isn't automatically thread-crapping.

[benedict]

Criticism isn't always threadcrapping.

[benedict]

Would all posters to Music Talk, new and old, please note that the DVDTalk.com forums are not the place to discuss the manner in which you or others might choose privately to distribute copyright material in contravention with the wishes of the owners of such material [or their agents].

As has been mentioned before, there are some cases where copying/taping/trading is lawful: threads dealing with this are unlikely to be closed where sufficient infromation concerning the legal side has been posted.

Likewise there are current threads concerning technical aspects of filesharing. Again, so far, these have been left open where they are non-specific.

Please don't be tempted to push the envelope. Geoff has recently posted about DVD bootlegging and other members may be aware that various longstanding "fudges" finally have had to be set aside.

The upshot with regard to mp3s and other files that people share, is that if too many folk fool around the whole area of discussion could become taboo. There is also the marked possibility that posting privileges will be suspended where the Forum Rules have been ignored.

BTW: as there are already threads on the legality and other aspects of mp3s etc., I'd ask that interested parties please think very seriously about bumping those as opposed to perpetuating a discussion in here. There is also the Feedback Forum where discussion on rules etc is usually on-topic.

I'll endeavour to post any necessary updates here "as and when".

Thanks to all in advance for your understanding and co-operation.

[benedict]

The copyright-related rules are not something new: in instances where suspected copyright-breach was noticed, admins and moderators were editing/deleting Napster (and similar) threads in the Other forum way back when: members posting/reading regularly in that forum will probably recall this happening....

Where there has been a change of focus (and as alluded to in my post above this one) is that, on June 5th., Geoff made a general statement in the Feedback Forum thread entitled "Condoning Bootleg DVDs":

"While I am not crazy about the way in which this issue was brought up or the tone of the accusations flung around it. I have taken a look at our policy and going forward here's our new policy:

- NO bootleg discussion threads."

Leading up to this, while the debate was still proceeding, I was posting warnings both here and in the International DVD forum in to give people the chance to remind themselves, if they had forgotten, just where the boundaries lay and what the sanctions for crossing them could be.

Whether or not one cares sufficiently to read and/or respect the rules under which the site operates here they are:

The following is strictly prohibited on the DVD Talk Forum and may result in immediate account suspension:
• Posting Information on how to defraud any company or promotion of any kind of illegal or unethical activity
• Anything that violates the trademark or copyright of another company including anything that may violate the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.

Here are some (mostly) locked threads where the older policy applied:

• How do you feel about tapers / bootleggers? [Left open but a rules reminder added]
• Looking for an mp3
• 80's Mix CD advice??? [Check out the "free" link I added at that time]
• krkuhl's plea for help thread

[benedict]

For a number of useful pointers on technical and other matters please check out Blades FAQ in the Feedback Forum.

[benedict]

For the time being I have stickyfied the one-&-only [legal] filesharing [inc. mp3 software] advice/discussion thread [Part II] and will lock or merge "duplicates".

FYI: the first part of the thread is here.

[benedict]

Future software queries to the Computer Forum, please.

I've de-stickied the mp3/filesharing thread referenced above.

Non-software queries that fall under the broad heading(s) of the one-and-only thread linked to above should be posted in it: they are allowed here in moderation although this is now regarded primarily a forum for discussing music and bands rather than for technical debate.

[benedict]

Future bargain/store recommendations need to go in one place if they are to continue being posted here.

There is the option of posting in Bargains or Store and putting a link in this thread to assist those that don't hang out in those forums.

We have a bargains and a store forum and I believe that there is no longer the rationale that there was when Music Talk started for usurping the function of those established forums.

[benedict]

Originally posted by Aghama
You might also want to make the distinction that criticism isn't automatically thread-crapping.

Shortly after your post I did just that although I now tend to feel that the distinction may be lost on some.

A top tip for anyone dipping into this thread for insights as to how to win friends and influence people:

• If a moderator/admin closes a thread because of something you said, think twice about starting a duplicate.
• If a moderator/admin closes a duplicate thread and says "no more", think twice about posting the same thing in a pre-existing thread.

More often that not, reading between the lines is not necessary: the actual words themselves are all the clue that is needed.

[benedict]

From the rules:

Note: DVD Talk has a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks. Posting something to the DVD Talk forum which personally attacks another forum member or contains profanity or any type of racial or ethnic slur may result in immediate suspension of your user account

The level of "debate" in this forum is too frequently falling below what one would expect from adults.

Just as is the case with people posting mp3 links to copyright material, from this point, in accordance with Geoff's stated policy, there will be zero tolerance shown towards personal attacks.

I know that I will receive claims that [insert envelope-pushing term here] was not a personal attack. Sorry and all that but I propose to ignore all such pleas. It will be easier if people just play nice.

[cupcake jesus]

I have a question, because I normally don't visit/post in this forum, but had a topic I'd like to discuss. I like making mix CDs of all one artist for my car, for my personal use, from CDs I own, because I have about 1200 CDs, which is WAY too many to put in the car with me, and don't want to get my prerecorded CDs stolen. I think this practice is within the bounds of copyright law. Is it in the bounds of the music forum to post and ask for suggestions for my favorite artists?

Thanks in advance,

cupcake jesus

[benedict]

If you were proposing to make a thread where each poster compiled a small listing of tracks:-

- by a certain band or
- of a certain theme or
- even of no theme at all but demostrating tunes that they thought worked well together and....

.... [this is important] it was up to you (or like-minded forum members) to make your own compilation from your own resources (no winks; no smileys; no explanations) then I don't see how the legal eagles could complain! However, once people started proposing actually to exchange copyright music that wouldn't wash, I''m afraid.

If you were so inclined you could label it as a Part Two to Penny Lane's original: Make me a tiny mix tape!!!

On past experience, not too long into the life of the thread, someone will ignore the instructions/request and start talking either about p2p/filesharing or how someone else's selections "suck". They will then express self-righteous indignation when their post disappears, or the thread is locked, or they are suspended from posting!


Benedict
Moderator, Music Talk

[benedict]

Originally posted by benedict
We have a bargains and a store forum and I believe that there is no longer the rationale that there was when Music Talk started for usurping the function of those established forums.

There is a thread concerning Columbia House and/or BMG music club codes in the Hot Deals Forum: http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=269292

Any queries, follow-ups etc should be asked there.

[benedict]

Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email at forum@dvdtalk.com. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, so please realize that we may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately.

Note: DVD Talk has a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks. Posting something to the DVD Talk forum which personally attacks another forum member or contains profanity or any type of racial or ethnic slur may result in immediate suspension of your user account

Posting about banned or suspended members is also frowned on here. Don't do it. Please.

If you have a beef with a poster &/or his posting style:

• First consider that some people might like the music he/she is talking about so don't crap in his/her threads. You don't like it when people do it to you.
• If the forum feels overrun with threads on one topic or musical genre use the "Report this Post" link in preference to bumping the very threads you profess to dislike.

Problem with a moderating decision? The long-standing rule is that you take it to email. And remember that very often you will not be privy to the full facts so second-guessing will rarely pay dividends.

Have a nice day.

[benedict]

Originally posted by benedict
There is a thread concerning Columbia House and/or BMG music club codes in the Hot Deals Forum: http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=269292

Any queries, follow-ups etc should be asked there.

See also here for the Music Forum's one and only place to go over similar ground.

[benedict]

Shilling is forbidden under the terms of the membership agreement: http://www.dvdtalk.com/legal.html

Instead go here and think about paying the site owner: http://www.dvdtalk.com/ad.html

[benedict]

Originally posted by benedict
There is a thread concerning Columbia House and/or BMG music club codes in the Hot Deals Forum: http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=269292
Any queries, follow-ups etc should be asked there.

Now @: One & Only CH (Columbia House) & BMG CD music club thread pt. 2

[benedict]

Technical and software issues generally belong on Tech Talk.

Unless people are actually talking about the music, where I spot them I am closing down all iPod - and similar - threads posted to Music Talk.

This is line with my note here concerning purely software issues of two years ago and followed discussion among the more senior mods at that time and earlier.

[benedict]

Threadcrapping appears to be on the rise in Music Talk.

Please read the opening posts in this thread and avoid leading discussions off-topic by entering threads simply to voice your dislike of the band in the subject header. Unless of course the subject header calls for all sorts of critical opinions and negative ones are thereby on-topic!

[benedict]

Please note the following "one-and-only" threads:

CD Sales and Trade Thread PT. 2

Official (Legal) Releases Available for Download

[benedict]

Originally Posted by benedict

The copyright-related rules are not something new: in instances where suspected copyright-breach was noticed, admins and moderators were editing/deleting Napster (and similar) threads in the Other forum way back when: members posting/reading regularly in that forum will probably recall this happening....

Where there has been a change of focus (and as alluded to in my post above this one) is that, on June 5th., Geoff made a general statement in the Feedback Forum thread entitled "Condoning Bootleg DVDs":

"While I am not crazy about the way in which this issue was brought up or the tone of the accusations flung around it. I have taken a look at our policy and going forward here's our new policy:

- NO bootleg discussion threads."

Leading up to this, while the debate was still proceeding, I was posting warnings both here and in the International DVD forum in to give people the chance to remind themselves, if they had forgotten, just where the boundaries lay and what the sanctions for crossing them could be.

Whether or not one cares sufficiently to read and/or respect the rules under which the site operates here they are:Here are some (mostly) locked threads where the older policy applied:

• How do you feel about tapers / bootleggers? [Left open but a rules reminder added]
• Looking for an mp3
• 80's Mix CD advice??? [Check out the "free" link I added at that time]
• krkuhl's plea for help thread

These rules have been in the sign-up email and the subject of reminders here and elsewhere for years now.... and yet transgressions are becoming too frequent. Without exception, anyone crossing the line now will be suspended from posting for a period of not less than one week.

[benedict]

Originally Posted by benedict

These rules have been in the sign-up email and the subject of reminders here and elsewhere for years now.... and yet transgressions are becoming too frequent.

Please note that it matters not that you might already own a particular cd/track but be temporarily stymied by a hardware / software problem from making a copy.

DVDTalk.com is not the place to ask someone else to make you or your friend a "back-up copy".... please.... really!

[benedict]

Originally Posted by benedict

Now @: One & Only CH (Columbia House) & BMG CD music club thread pt. 2

Now here

BMG + Columbia House

[benedict]

CD catalog/tracking software tips here: [Requests for info on] CD tracker / catalog software [merged]