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Old 12-21-12, 03:18 PM   #101
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
I am curious, would you care to explain?
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It's the Internet. Someone must be misusing the word "pretentious" right around now
No, I am using the word in the proper context. Heat is an odd and clinical attempt at an action thriller, with clear aspirations to turn a genre script into an Oscar® winner. Mann clearly thought throwing Pacino and De Niro in the same movie together was enough for movie magic. The whole script is built around their eventual meeting, but both actors were well past the point in their careers where they were tour de forces on the screeen. Val Kilmer probably gives the best performance in the movie, simply because he isn't trying to mug for an Oscar.

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Old 12-21-12, 03:56 PM   #102
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
No, I am using the word in the proper context. Heat is an odd and clinical attempt at an action thriller, with clear aspersions to turn a genre script into an Oscar® winner. Mann clearly thought throwing Pacino and De Niro in the same movie together was enough for movie magic. The whole script is built around their eventual meeting, but both actors were well past the point in their careers where they were tour de forces on the screeen. Val Kilmer probably gives the best performance in the movie, simply because he isn't trying to mug for an Oscar.
IMO Mann just wanted 2 great actors in the roles (Nick Nolte and Jeff Bridges were also considered).
If he was after Oscars don't you think that the meeting between Neil & Vincent would have had the actors flexing their chops
(Heat was before The Insider, Donnie Brasco, Cop Land & Jackie Brown so they still had it).
Instead it is more like an anti-climax in which you see the weight of the world wearing down these 2 men who are so dedicated to their professions.

Maybe I am just biased because I am a fan of the man(n)'s work

I love Thief, Manhunter, The Insider & Collateral. I am also a fan of The Keep & the IMO underrated Miami Vice movie.
Public Enemies could have been better but did not suck. Have not seen Ali & The Last of the Mohicans.
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Old 12-21-12, 04:24 PM   #103
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

On the subject of Pacino being past his prime, I generally agree with you, but his next movie with Michael Mann was The Insider which was one of the better movies that I've ever seen and probably Mann's all-time best IMHO.

Pacino & DeNiro meeting is a bit of a gimmick that hinges more on your wanting to see these legends on a movie screen finally, seperately from the plot. I think that can be argued as a flaw, but overall I think Heat's strengths outweigh its weaknesses.
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Old 12-22-12, 05:35 PM   #104
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

I think Heat is one of the best films of the nineties along with LA Confidential, Pulp Fiction and Seven.
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Old 12-22-12, 06:19 PM   #105
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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I wonder how old the average Heat hater posting on this thread is. I'm almost positive that they were probably in grade school or junior high when Heat hit theaters. In other words, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
I was 8 years old when Heat came out and it's one of my favorite movies. I didn't see it until the early 2000s but I've loved it ever since.

Some people think that it drags but I think it's wonderful how deep it goes into the lives of these characters in this "action movie." Cutting that stuff out would've killed the impact the film had on me and I certainly wouldn't hold it in as high regard as I do now without that stuff.

The only thing I can think of that's wrong with Heat is the casting of Amy Brenneman as Eady.
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Old 12-22-12, 11:54 PM   #106
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

on the plus side the only thing I Can think of good about Heat is the US Civil War analogy that the bankrobbers are the Confederates, dressed in tan clothing and on minimal resources while the police are the Federals dressed in dark gear with unlimited resources.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:15 AM   #107
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

I think Mann is a workmanlike director who is, in general, vastly overrated. That being said, he did make one great film and that is Heat.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:35 AM   #108
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Originally Posted by Why So Blu? View Post
I wonder how old the average Heat hater posting on this thread is. I'm almost positive that they were probably in grade school or junior high when Heat hit theaters. In other words, they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
I like Heat, but what the fuck does age have to do with anything? One thing I discovered early on is that there's very little correlation between age and taste - most people who are in their forties and fifties have just as pedestrian of taste as when they were 15 or 20.

I know several 20-somethings who know far more about film and film history - and who have far better taste - than a vast majority of people, of any age. They most certainly do know what the fuck they're talking about, at least when it comes to film.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:36 AM   #109
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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I think Mann is a workmanlike director who is, in general, vastly overrated. That being said, he did make one great film and that is Heat.
You didn't like The Insider? That's one I actually didn't care for initially but has grown on me over the years as I've gotten older.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:37 AM   #110
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

I think Heat is a great movie but was extremely disappointed when Pacino and DeNiro
never actually appeared in the film on screen together.
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Old 12-23-12, 12:40 AM   #111
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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You didn't like The Insider? That's one I actually didn't care for initially but has grown on me over the years as I've gotten older.
The Insider is Mann's most overrated film. I know it's based on a true story, but it's so unbelievably repetitive.
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Old 12-23-12, 01:03 AM   #112
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Originally Posted by whotony View Post
I think Heat is a great movie but was extremely disappointed when Pacino and DeNiro
never actually appeared in the film on screen together.
They shared the cafe scene together (albeit via over the shoulder angles, though there is a production still with both) and the very end.

Edit: Here it is:


Any reason why Mann chose to shoot the scene that way? Was it to maximize the final scene?
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Old 12-23-12, 01:16 AM   #113
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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The Insider is Mann's most overrated film. I know it's based on a true story, but it's so unbelievably repetitive.
It might be overrated, but it's still one of his best films, and miles better than The Keep, Ali, Miami Vice, and Public Enemies (all of which I like to some degree).

Manhunter, however dated, is still my favorite. Heat is wildly uneven, but contains some incredible sequences and when it soars...it really soars.
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Old 12-23-12, 01:38 AM   #114
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

The only films of his I like aside from Heat are Collateral and Miami Vice. Everything else he's done can go pound sand (yes, including Manhunter).
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Old 12-23-12, 01:47 AM   #115
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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The only films of his I like aside from Heat are Collateral and Miami Vice. Everything else he's done can go pound sand (yes, including Manhunter).
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Old 12-23-12, 03:34 AM   #116
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Any reason why Mann chose to shoot the scene that way? Was it to maximize the final scene?
Maybe it's because Al Pacino looks considerably shorter than DeNiro when in the same shot.

I didn't know Heat came out before Donnie Brasco. I think that was a much better film.
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Old 12-23-12, 05:41 AM   #117
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Maybe it's because Al Pacino looks considerably shorter than DeNiro when in the same shot.
Pacino was 5'6 and De Niro 5'8 when they filmed Heat...and yeah Serpico definitely looks shorter than Travis Bickle in this movie. They both read at least 6 foot tall though.
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Old 12-23-12, 01:16 PM   #118
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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The only films of his I like aside from Heat are Collateral and Miami Vice. Everything else he's done can go pound sand (yes, including Manhunter).
I replace Miami Vice with Thief but agree with everything else(yes, including Manhunter).
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Old 12-26-12, 08:16 AM   #119
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

I didn't watch The Insider until last year because on paper it sounds like a tedious, bland chore of a movie. Not many directors can take a story about a tobacco exec speaking out, and make it so amazingly engaging. Mann outdid himself on this one.
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Old 12-26-12, 09:40 AM   #120
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Pacino was 5'6 and De Niro 5'8 when they filmed Heat...and yeah Serpico definitely looks shorter than Travis Bickle in this movie. They both read at least 6 foot tall though.
How awesome would SERPICO MEETS TAXI DRIVER have been? In 1977 and directed by Walter Hill. Or Don Siegel. And they go after corrupt cops, a la MAGNUM FORCE.
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Old 12-26-12, 10:21 AM   #121
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

The Insider is by and far my favorite Mann film. Fantastic acting, solid script, nice cinematography, well paced. I really enjoy it. Heat is probably my 2nd favorite. I haven't cared much for his last two films.
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Old 12-26-12, 10:28 AM   #122
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

The Insider is awesome and the director's cut of Ali is epic.
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Old 12-26-12, 12:09 PM   #123
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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The only films of his I like aside from Heat are Collateral and Miami Vice. Everything else he's done can go pound sand (yes, including Manhunter).
Not even Last of the Mohicans? Fie on you, sir. Fie.

(Agreed about Manhunter though...)
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Old 12-26-12, 12:18 PM   #124
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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The only films of his I like aside from Heat are Collateral and Miami Vice. Everything else he's done can go pound sand (yes, including Manhunter).
Even Thief? WTF is wrong w/ you, sir?!
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Old 12-26-12, 12:21 PM   #125
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Re: Heat is a hilariously taped-up mess

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Two. I never got the love for the movie either.
Three (though not for the OP's "observations")....
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