Mabuse

We all know what happens. The Ark gets put in a crate and filed away under a pile of bureaucratic junk, lost again for the ages, as it would seem it wants to be.

I'm not too bible literate so I hope some of you more bible literate can help me with my theory (Creekdipper, kvrdave)

I was flipping through and I found the Book of Samuel. It has many mentions of the Ark and it caught my eye. In the Book of Samuel the Ark is stolen by the Philistines, and they have nothing but bad luck. Possessing the Ark brings a plague. The people break out in tumors and rats eat all their possessions. They try to give the Ark back and that backfires.

Anyway, I'd never read this stuff before. The idea that the Ark is just as much a curse as it is a powerful weapon. After reading it I realized that the ending of ROTLA could just as easily be read that America is now cursed because they posses the Ark.

Discuss.

Also: Discussion of The Big Bang Theory's interpretation of the film are not allowed in this thread

Solid Snake

....uhm... America became the huge ass motherfucker that it is cuz of WW2. WW2 alone made us who we are. That's a dumb fuck thing to even inch close to the idea that one could call us "cursed" in the overall. We've had some fuckups but nothing that polar opposite either. Aside from like.. Vietnam and some other things.. but ...yeah... we are doing pretty fucking good for the shitty social culture we seem to have.

Add in all the social uproars we caused for rights in the 1960s, etc etc etc.

Nick Danger

I'd say that once America possessed the Ark, it did pretty well. You know -- defeating Hitler and Tojo, establishing a post-war world order according to its ideas, winning the Cold War and watching the collapse of the USSR, converting China from a deadly enemy to a trading partner, and nobody's face getting melted.

It looks to me like Spielberg is arguing that the Nazis are the Philistines and the Americans are the heirs of Judah.

Mabuse

That's a pretty good idea. However I could argue that we aren't the heirs to the Ark because we don't recognize if for what it is. It gets cast aside and shunted off to be lost again, which, like I said, seems to be the will of the Ark. It doesn't want to be found.

I see a potential sequel where Indy realizes that possession of the Ark is dangerous and has to work to get rid of it. Maybe set during the Cuban Missile Crisis or something. I'd like a sequel where an old Indy, the fist fighting 1930's guy, who rides a horse bareback, has to commandeer a half-track and shoot down a Mig fighter with a surface to air missile. Old Indy takes on modern warfare.

Josh-da-man

That aspect of the Ark was never really grought up in the movie, only that the Ark was an unbeatable weapon.

I don't think that is what Spielberg was tring to imply; the idea that the USA is some kind of new Jerusalem or whatever is a popular belief in white supermacist circles who subscribe to the christian religion but hate Jews.

I really think the movie simply is what it is. There's nothing more to be read into the ending than the Americans recover the Ark from the Nazis, decide it's too powerful to be used by humans, and hide it away.

Considering that the only thing we saw the Ark actually do was burn the swastika off of its crate, and rain bloody hell upon the Nazis who dared to look into it, they probably should have just let the Nazis have it. The characters all treat it like some kind of super weapon, but it seems obvious that the Ark won't allow itself to be used by just anyone.

They should have shipped it off to Berlin, let Hitler, Gehring, Goebbels, and the rest open it up.

E Unit

This and only this. And it's a kickass movie, but no symbolism anywhere in it. He was 33 when he made it, so he didn't really instill the deeper meanings like he does in pretty much all of his movies now. I sort of blame his heavy handedness from A.I. onward where he wanted to put such weight to the underlying meanings, rather than making fun character driven movies.

Mabuse

At the risk of derailing my own thread, Catch Me If You Can was a fun, character driven movie.

Nick Danger

Seriously, the only thing I take from the ending of Raiders is how it looks in the context of Spielberg's other movies of the time.

In Jaws, the local government tries to deny and hide the shark attacks. In Close Encounters, the federal government tries to cover up the UFO landing. In E.T., government agents try to find and capture the alien. In Raiders, the government captures the Ark and puts it in a giant warehouse with other objects that it's concealing.

In Spielberg movies, the automatic response of government was always to deny and conceal. It's a basic distrust.

DVD Josh

OP, Top Men have considered all alternatives and disagree with you. Top. Men.

Josh-da-man

Interesting observation. Wonder if it's a post-Watergate thing.

E Unit

Yeah, but compare it to his pre-A.I. movies and he had a much better handling and development of the characters. But I agree, Catch Me was a nice semi-return to that.

Abob Teff

I don't watch Big Bang Theory, so I'll ask -- what was their interpretation?

Solid Snake

That show is a piece of shit.

Mabuse

Hey, I said no discussing Big Bang Theory, damn it!

Just go over to the imdb message board for the film. Half the posts are some fool trying to make the same dumb theory work.

Abob Teff

I'm a foreigner who is an Oregon fan and I want to sit over there ... I'll discuss what I please!

Double_Oh_7

That basically Indiana Jones had absolutely no affect on the outcome of the story. The same things would have happened if he did not exist.

Solid Snake

Actually... depending on the exact context of the narrative they're focusing on... the ark wouldn't be found w/o Indy.

Double_Oh_7

Yeah, it would. The Nazis would have the entire headpiece for the staff, not just the one side burned in Toht's hand. They would have dug in the correct place to begin with.

Solid Snake

You're right. I forgot about that. Indy only prolongs the journey to the end.

Paff

on the original post, I remember in a college lit class we had to read several of the Old Testament books. My only previous knowledge of the mythology of the Ark came from Spielberg's movie. I did read that in at least one biblical story, an opposing army stole the Ark from the Jews (for the same reason as the Nazis, it's invincibility) only to incur plague and pestilence. They sheepishly had to return it. It occurred to me that had the Nazis simply read that particular tale, they never would have attempted to recover the ark in the first place knowing it would obviously not benefit them. Definite plot hole there.

Sean O'Hara

However, if Indy had gone home after getting the headpiece, the Nazis would've been digging in the wrong place for years. Everything he does after going to Nepal is pointless.

There's a similar problem with the first Harry Potter movie -- if Harry and gang had stayed in bed at the end, Voldemort would've been stuck in front of that mirror until Dumbledore got back from London. In fact, Harry being there made the situation worse, since it gave Voldemort a chance to get at the Philosopher's Stone. Instead of being a hero, Dumbledore should've whupped Potter's ass for putting the world in danger.

Mabuse

Over on Imdb's Raiders page someone wrote something funny relating to Indiana Jones' mistakes and/or ineffectual influence on events:
People who make these theories are missing the central conceit of the film and character. He's a tough as nails, never give up, hero who nevertheless frequently gets usurped, sabotaged, and inevitably loses. He's not a pure white knight.

Josh-da-man

This is true. Indiana Jones is mostly a follower through most of the movie who does very little... his biggest accomplishment is that he actually finds the Ark first but loses it minutes later.

But it's still one of the most entertaining adventure films ever made.

Abob Teff

All incorrect -- if Indy had not gone through all that, we wouldn't have Mutt for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

Jason

Well, the "real" ark is supposedly in a church in Ethiopia, and look how well they're doing...