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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Thread

Old 07-30-16, 06:42 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

I liked Michael Shannon as Zod. Far better as an extreme leader bent on destroying humanity than whatever Eisenberg's Luthor was trying to accomplish. Eisenberg played Luthor like a cartoon character and was awful. Don't even start on the awfulness that is Doomsday.
Old 07-31-16, 02:36 AM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

They could have easily went for Braniac with the Kryptonian ship (Well the Timm version at least). Other than that and maybe Bizarro, Superman doesn't really have that great of a rogues gallery, at least not to headline a movie. Does anyone really want to see Parasite or Metallo be the main villains?
Old 07-31-16, 05:44 AM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Mike86
I don't love Man of Steel but I think it's at least a better constructed film. The plot and motivation of the villain at least makes sense. Batman V Superman in its theatrical form is a broken film. I still need to watch the ultimate cut and while it may be better I still would consider the film a failure for not being able to deliver a more coherent story in its theatrical form since most people saw it that way.

Consider Watchmen. Alot of people thought the theatrical version was a hot mess, but when they released the Director's Cut, did an about face and said that was the version they should have shown in theaters. Maybe the Ultimate Cut of BvS will be the same...
Old 07-31-16, 10:54 AM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

I enjoyed the Ultimate version more than the theatrical version. It didn't feel like 3 hours to me, but if the producers/studio really wanted to release a shorter version to theaters, they should have chosen different parts to cut out because the ones they did cut out helped connect the dots. Instead, they left unnecessary scenes like Batman's nightmare and his "conversation" with his dead dad. They could have also cut the scenes with Batman and Wonder Woman opening the metahuman files. I know they served as teasers for future movies, but they weren't crucial to this film's story.

Now a few questions... When Superman tried to recruit Batman to help him save Martha, he called him Bruce before they started fighting. When/how did he figure out Batman's identity? I guess Lex figured out Superman's identity from the crashed Kryptonian ship. Is that right? But when/how did he figure out Batman's identity? When Batman visits him in the cell at the end, Lex drops the Wayne name, implying he knows who Batman is. Thanks.
Old 07-31-16, 12:28 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Ignoring BvS, I've always assumed that if Clark was a decent reporter/ investigator, he could figure out Batman's identity. Nevermind that he can just use x-ray vision to see behind the cowl.

Same goes for Batman. If he's truly the world's greatest detective then figuring out Clark/Suoerman's identity shouldn't be an issue.

So in regards to the way these two characters have been written for a century, keeping their secret identities from each other seems more forced than just accepting that they both know each others secret.
Old 07-31-16, 12:47 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Ignoring BvS, I've always assumed that if Clark was a decent reporter/ investigator, he could figure out Batman's identity. Nevermind that he can just use x-ray vision to see behind the cowl.

Same goes for Batman. If he's truly the world's greatest detective then figuring out Clark/Suoerman's identity shouldn't be an issue.

So in regards to the way these two characters have been written for a century, keeping their secret identities from each other seems more forced than just accepting that they both know each others secret.
They knew almost immediately, according to the John Byrne Superman reboot from 1986. Superman needed Batman's help on deciphering some anonymous mail he was receiving, and Batman deduced he was Kent based on the nature of the mail being sent, and actually complimented him on the simplicity and effectiveness of his disguise.

Superman accepted this and flew away with a wave, saying "Thanks again for the help, Mr. Wayne." Batman was shocked momentarily, cursing himself for taking the time to line his cowl with led, then realized that anyone with Superman's powers could have hundreds of ways to determine his identity.

It was a really cool scene. Aaaaaand I've gone full taffer, once again...
Old 07-31-16, 01:54 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by stingermck
Keep us updated
Okay, after a brutally horrible firs hour of the movie things picked up. I don't understand why it's so dark though? It's are to make out details on the screen. Like every scene is dark, even the scenes during the day.

The problem I see with his movie is why would they start their universe off with a villain that can kill Superman? Where do they go from here?

Wonder Woman was the highlight of the movie, easily. Lex was the lowlight. I'm not even sure what his motivation was.
Old 07-31-16, 02:05 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Timber
I don't understand why it's so dark though? It's are to make out details on the screen. Like every scene is dark, even the scenes during the day.
You're watching it a 1pm. Do you have blackout curtains for your home theater?
Old 07-31-16, 06:46 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
Ignoring BvS, I've always assumed that if Clark was a decent reporter/ investigator, he could figure out Batman's identity. Nevermind that he can just use x-ray vision to see behind the cowl.

Same goes for Batman. If he's truly the world's greatest detective then figuring out Clark/Suoerman's identity shouldn't be an issue.

So in regards to the way these two characters have been written for a century, keeping their secret identities from each other seems more forced than just accepting that they both know each others secret.
Yeah, I guess Supes could use his X-ray vision to see through the Bat's mask, but wouldn't Bruce be smart enough to make his mask out of lead to keep his identity hidden?

One thing that bugged me was Clark asking Lex "Who's that" as Bruce arrived at Lex's party. Really? Clark's a reporter and doesn't know who billionaire Bruce Wayne is? Doesn't he read The Daily Planet or watch TV?
Old 07-31-16, 06:49 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Joe Schmoe
Now a few questions... When Superman tried to recruit Batman to help him save Martha, he called him Bruce before they started fighting. When/how did he figure out Batman's identity? I guess Lex figured out Superman's identity from the crashed Kryptonian ship. Is that right? But when/how did he figure out Batman's identity? When Batman visits him in the cell at the end, Lex drops the Wayne name, implying he knows who Batman is. Thanks.
In the Lex party, Superman could hear Alfred talking to Bruce Wayne on his little intercom thing, I figured that's how he knew and that's why he confronted him in their discussion as Clark and Bruce about his thoughts on Batman. Also, Lex must have known both identities at that time, way before he found the Kryptonian key, because he invites both of them to the party and makes a big deal of their meeting (Perry even mentions how odd it was for Clark to get invited to cover it). Lex was also withholding the checks from the guy in the wheelchair to get Bruce going, and giving info to Clark about the marked bad guys dying in jail.

I mean Lois found out Superman's identity, no problem, plus this big hunky guy starts out of nowhere at the planet and apparently lives with Lois, who everyone knows is protected by Superman? Not hard to deduce. The Batman thing, well, how many people in Gotham have the means of being Batman? Plus the guy goes to criminal gatherings as himself. Not a huge stretch to think Lex figured both out. Heck Wonder Woman figured it out too.

What's really dumb is that Metropolis is like a ferry ride away from Gotham and they've never met before? It's like Clark just learned there was a Batman, when the guys been operating for like 20 years. And his plan is to get Batman to help him, when he's going to be preoccupied fighting him? How exactly was Batman going to help, even if he listened? And why do you blurt out your mom's name? Luckily dues ex machine Alfred knew exactly where Martha was so he could rush off and save her.

And now that I think about it, Lois's whole arc, with the bullet thing and tracing it back to Lex, did absolutely nothing for the plot, considering Lex was going to kidnap her for his plan anyway, and Superman didn't bother listening to her.
Old 07-31-16, 07:14 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by fujishig
And now that I think about it, Lois's whole arc, with the bullet thing and tracing it back to Lex, did absolutely nothing for the plot, considering Lex was going to kidnap her for his plan anyway, and Superman didn't bother listening to her.
That's true. I thought maybe in the extended edition we'd see Lois clear Superman's name as a result of the bullet storyline, but it never happened. Maybe it'll be mentioned in Justice League? Of course, it's probably no longer necessary since the government gave him military honors at his funeral.

Another question: Didn't the authorities wonder where Superman's body was? Are we to assume Bruce, Lois and Diana told the feds he was blown to bits and there was no body to bury?
Old 07-31-16, 07:27 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

I've never understood how Wonder Woman has apparently been around for a long time and Bruce wouldn't have ever been aware of her in his twenty years as Batman. I could maybe buy that he didn't have interaction with her prior to Batman V Superman but I would think he'd be aware of another hero or would have come across something about her before.
Old 07-31-16, 08:05 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

It seemed like WW had withdrawn from the spotlight after whatever she did in WW2, though obviously she's been around as Diana Prince. I don't think she was playing hero, especially considering she doesn't even hide her face at all, though I do wonder what kept her out of the MoS conflict.

Even without a funeral for Clark, after seeing what they did to create Doomsday I doubt Batman would have given him over to the government.

Forgot to add that they did shoehorn stuff into this movie that was missing from the first, mainly scenes of Superman saving people and the final battle happening on an abandoned island instead of killing thousands of people. I mean the heroes didn't do much to actually shift the battle there that I can recall, and the saving scenes are just to play up the messiah stuff, but at least it's in there. Plus Superman doesn't kill anyone (he lets Batman do it).
Old 08-01-16, 04:20 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

1. WW had withdrawn from society.
2. Batman has always been a MYTH. Most in Gotham don't even believe he is real. Not hard to understand that Clark, being new to Metropolis, would not have heard of this Batman until recent events brought him back out..
Old 08-01-16, 04:37 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

I can buy Batman as a myth, maybe, except like I said Gotham is right next to Metropolis. We know he's had run ins with the Joker that ended in tragedy, and that he's got quite a rogues gallery in Suicide Squad. Gotham is some kind of hell hole with super villains and Superman can't be bothered to cross the river to check it out, even if he doesn't believe in this Batman, a guy whose secret identity is already known by people like Lex and WW? Was he retired until recently because I didn't get that impression from the movie. Let's also not forget the police have a gigantic bat signal that you can see from metropolis that they use to call him.

Plus the branding of criminals which is on the front page of the paper, if you want to stay a myth that's a really dumb thing to start doing.
Old 08-01-16, 04:47 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

It's hard for me to buy people believing Batman to be only a myth if he's been active for twenty years. I just don't believe that in all that time he'd never get coverage by some news outlet or whatever. Plus yeah with things like the Batsignal and him going around branding people some people had to know he was around. Maybe not have seen him in person but something like that wouldn't just stay a myth that long when there's evidence to the contrary. I don't think the film said that Batman wasn't active. It sounded like he had been around but had taken a darker turn.
Old 08-01-16, 05:15 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

The news reports about the bat branding talked about Batman like everyone knew he was real.
Old 08-01-16, 07:57 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Supermallet
The news reports about the bat branding talked about Batman like everyone knew he was real.
That was recent activity. It seems there was a recent uptick in Batman's seemingly "out of character" activities and based on his new more violent mindset...it seems he just didn't worry about being out of the shadows.
Old 08-01-16, 08:04 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by fujishig
I can buy Batman as a myth, maybe, except like I said Gotham is right next to Metropolis. We know he's had run ins with the Joker that ended in tragedy, and that he's got quite a rogues gallery in Suicide Squad. Gotham is some kind of hell hole with super villains and Superman can't be bothered to cross the river to check it out, even if he doesn't believe in this Batman, a guy whose secret identity is already known by people like Lex and WW? Was he retired until recently because I didn't get that impression from the movie. Let's also not forget the police have a gigantic bat signal that you can see from metropolis that they use to call him.

Plus the branding of criminals which is on the front page of the paper, if you want to stay a myth that's a really dumb thing to start doing.
Mind you I had read that most people in Gotham believed Batman to be a Myth or Urban Legend years ago in a Batman Description and it always stuck with me. People don't realize that Batman doesn't deal with every single crime in the city. It's like he help GCPD, but he doesn't do ALL the work.

Story Here

Recent details have emerged that Ben Affleck's incarnation of Batman is older and more of a myth than an actual established and well-known hero in Gotham City. Some people don't like the idea as he is an older Batman and would likely be established among the people of Gotham City. But down below are reasons why it actually perfect to have him at urban legend status.
Old 08-01-16, 08:57 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

You'd think some people would think Batman was made up by police, and that the bat signal was used to deter criminals.
Old 08-01-16, 09:04 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

I still think that if he's been active twenty years in a somewhat grounded reality there's no way he goes unnoticed all that time. Someone would have captured video or picture or something of him. That logic that he's a myth or urban legend works to a degree in the comics but unless the people of Gotham are all dimwitted there's just no real way that he'd be viewed as a myth in my opinion. Like I said before its one thing if most people haven't seen or interacted with him but an entirely different issue to deny his existence.
Old 08-01-16, 09:14 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Batman is sometimes called Global Warming.
Old 08-01-16, 09:38 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Mind you I had read that most people in Gotham believed Batman to be a Myth or Urban Legend years ago in a Batman Description and it always stuck with me. People don't realize that Batman doesn't deal with every single crime in the city. It's like he help GCPD, but he doesn't do ALL the work.

Story Here
I think Chick Dixon reintroduced that aspect to the mythos. That works when Batman is away from the rest of the DC Universe, and when there's not Batman family, but introduce other heroes or outlandish villains and it kinda goes out the window. Also that must be a fan written article because it's basically guessing about things before the movie came out, and is riddled with grammatical errors.

There's an animated series episode where three kids discuss how they perceive Batman, and they're all vastly different (with one account being an homage to Dark Knight Returns). I could see that aspect, at Batman is known to exist but nobody knows much about him besides rumors.

But there's a bat vigilante rumored to be in the city across the water and neither ace reporter Clark Kent nor Superman bother to investigate until the movie forces them to? No wonder Clark didn't know what Bruce Wayne looks like, there's like a wall of iron around Gotham.
Old 08-01-16, 10:34 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by Giantrobo
Not hard to understand that Clark, being new to Metropolis, would not have heard of this Batman until recent events brought him back out..
Exactly. Clark was too busy trying to join Deadliest Catch.

Originally Posted by fujishig
I can buy Batman as a myth, maybe, except like I said Gotham is right next to Metropolis. We know he's had run ins with the Joker that ended in tragedy, and that he's got quite a rogues gallery in Suicide Squad. Gotham is some kind of hell hole with super villains and Superman can't be bothered to cross the river to check it out,
Yeah, of all the things wrong with these films, this seems to be the biggest oversight. It makes it convenient for the events of this film but falls apart under any kind of scrutiny.
Old 08-01-16, 11:09 PM
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Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Snyder, 2016) — The Spoiler Filled Reviews Th

Originally Posted by kd5
I really would rather not read through 1240 posts to see if someone asked this same question, I tried searching for Man of Steel replies in this thread but did not see any relevant posts. My question: Is it necessary to see Man of Steel before watching Batman vs. Superman (Ultimate Edition)? I've read so many negative reviews anout Man of Steel I don't know if it's worth wasting my time on. But BvS (UE) seems like it might be something worth watching/buying.

So, is it necessary to see MoS first?
It's funny, since critically MoS is better received so it's strange that the negative reviews for that movie would stand out more to you then BvS.

Personally, I thought MoS was a better put together movie then BvS.

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