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The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

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The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Old 03-04-16, 07:46 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

I saw it last night and loved it. I'm not a Christian but the script and acting was so good that I felt the characters' struggles as keenly as if they were my own. A really compelling and vivid film.

Also, I like that the film tells everything through the lens of the mindset of the time. The director isn't saying witches are definitively real and Satan and God are definitively real, but he recognizes that for those people in that time, such things did feel tangibly real and could affect their lives in ways we can't quite comprehend now. It doesn't matter if there's a real witch, because to them it was real enough that they acted on it.

And also, to counter Blade's point, I would argue that this family does not have faith. The father admits his sin of pride late in the film. The mother admits she has lost touch with Jesus's love and has no connection to it. The whole reason they're out there is because the father's dogmatic nature led them to alienate themselves from the community. Actual faith is beyond them, which is why they're such easy prey for the metaphorical and literal forces of Satan.
Old 03-04-16, 08:06 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by Supermallet

Also, I like that the film tells everything through the lens of the mindset of the time. The director isn't saying witches are definitively real and Satan and God are definitively real, but he recognizes that for those people in that time, such things did feel tangibly real and could affect their lives in ways we can't quite comprehend now. It doesn't matter if there's a real witch, because to them it was real enough that they acted on it.
Yep, I think you hit on exactly what the director was trying to communicate in this film.


Originally Posted by Supermallet
And also, to counter Blade's point, I would argue that this family does not have faith. The father admits his sin of pride late in the film. The mother admits she has lost touch with Jesus's love and has no connection to it. The whole reason they're out there is because the father's dogmatic nature led them to alienate themselves from the community. Actual faith is beyond them, which is why they're such easy prey for the metaphorical and literal forces of Satan.
Excellent point---I didn't see that, but I think you're right. And, along with their faltering faith, they're also increasingly losing contact with their fellow humans---first with their exile from the larger community, and then with their dissolving family bonds.
Old 03-04-16, 09:16 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Yes, absolutely. They wield religion like a bludgeon. They speak of seeking divine love but cannot find it within themselves. I really think the wife's speech about her teenage dream is the heart of the film. She says as a teenager she had a dream of being near Jesus and being enveloped in his light and his love, far greater than any human love. But human love nurtures the connection to the divine, and choosing hard line religious principles over human connection breaks their capacity for faith. When Samuel is taken, the wife completely loses her faith, despite the constant praying. She comes across as spiteful and hateful, but in truth she's the one who's been given the short end of the stick by her prideful husband.

When she sees Caleb and Samuel in her room, she knows they're not angels from heaven. But she's past the point of caring whether or not her children return to her in the guise of angels or demons.

I honestly think this will go down in film history as a pivotal entry in the horror genre. It's about the horror that lies within us.
Old 03-06-16, 09:08 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by islandclaws
I really liked this movie. A lot. If this doesn't wind up in my top three horror films of the year, I'd be surprised.

Loved the setting. Loved the sinister undercurrent running throughout. Absolutely loved the acting. All of the kids were great.

Black Philip is, indeed, a star. I hope he gets more work.

I appreciated the mounting dread that erupted in a cataclysm of Satanic proportions.

Loved the score.

This is not audience pleasing horror, not in the least, and I love that it didn't pander to what modern viewers may have gone in expecting.


Watched it last night and liked it a lot. Good to see horror films like this one and It Follows being made, that don't stick to typical generic clichés .

4.5/5

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Old 03-11-16, 02:55 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by Supermallet
The director isn't saying witches are definitively real and Satan and God are definitively real, but he recognizes that for those people in that time, such things did feel tangibly real and could affect their lives in ways we can't quite comprehend now. It doesn't matter if there's a real witch, because to them it was real enough that they acted on it.
It doesn't matter to the family, but it matters to us as the audience. It turns the movie from being a cautionary tale about faith and isolation (and thank you for pointing that out, I didn't make that connection and it is an important one) to one of actions in response to outside input. It's the difference between killing your child because you think they've been possessed by a demon and killing your child because they are possessed by a demon.

And also, to counter Blade's point, I would argue that this family does not have faith. The father admits his sin of pride late in the film. The mother admits she has lost touch with Jesus's love and has no connection to it. The whole reason they're out there is because the father's dogmatic nature led them to alienate themselves from the community. Actual faith is beyond them, which is why they're such easy prey for the metaphorical and literal forces of Satan.
I don't think pride or the (likely) temporary loss of faith due to great tragedy are at all synonymous with not having faith. Outside the father's dogamtism, they didn't really strike me as being significantly different from what we would generally expect "normal" people of this time and place to be like in similar situations.

Which leaves the movie to be trying to have a discussion about organized vs folk religions?

I'm curious though, let's take as a given that you are interpreting the movie correctly and you are correct about their susceptibility. I'm still left with wondering how this profits Satan and what message that was supposed to relay. It seemed pretty pointless outside of a "pulling wings off a fly" type of "fun" and certainly not worth 90 minutes of my time.
Old 03-21-16, 11:21 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

I got to see this over the weekend and loved it.

I never have anything bad to say about the current run of horror films that rely on jump scares and booming music to scare you. Those movies can be fun. But they use cop-out techniques to scare you. That's fine, but I appreciate that this movie didn't try to do that. It tried to portray horror by generating an atmosphere of dread and by making the movie seem "tall" (for lack of a better word) to create a feeling of claustrophobia. Very well done.

I thought the story was great too. Simple but well done. I like the theme of how overwhelming faith can make you believe in God but can also turn you on your own family. I didn't like the end as much. It was a little too on the nose. I think it would have been better to leave a little to the imagination.

The dialogue was definitely tough. I respect that they did their research on the accents and dialogue but it did make the film a little harder to follow. In the end though, you knew what was going on, even if you couldn't pick up on every word.

One of the better horror films I've seen in awhile. Unlike those "jump scare" movies, I think this one has good rewatch value and I'd be just as creeped out after another viewing.
Old 03-21-16, 11:33 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

The Influences of ‘The Witch’ with Director Robert Eggers

Part One: The Shining - http://www.slashfilm.com/the-witch-i...s-the-shining/

Part Two: Häxan: Witchcraft Through the Ages - http://www.slashfilm.com/the-witch-influences-haxan/

Part Three: Cries and Whispers - http://www.slashfilm.com/the-witch-i...-and-whispers/
Old 03-21-16, 11:34 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by Goat3001
I didn't like the end as much. It was a little too on the nose. I think it would have been better to leave a little to the imagination.
I am still not quite sure if I like the ending. It was definitely not what I was expecting, which can be a good thing. I should probably watch it again.
Old 03-21-16, 12:32 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by TomOpus
I am still not quite sure if I like the ending. It was definitely not what I was expecting, which can be a good thing. I should probably watch it again.
What I didn't like was the very end.

Spoiler:
Everything up to Thomison killing her mom was great. After that, with Thomison going to Black Phillip and turning into a witch was too much. They put too much out there, IMO.

I would have liked an ending where she is trying to conjure Black Phillip with only a hint that he is really this demon. Let it end with a close up of Thomison's face as she breaks down crying. Puts a little ambiguity out there. Is she crying because she's about to turn into a witch? Is she crying because nothing is happening and the witch is coming to get her next? or is she crying because she just saw her entire family taken out and it is somewhat her fault?
Old 05-13-16, 11:03 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

I just finished watching the film and it was just ok. It runs under 90-minutes without credits but feels much longer.

That ending was weak, though. It actually reminded me of The Last Exorcism,
Spoiler:
where we have this entire film rooted in some sort of reality and then the supernatural parts hit and it wasn't all just a figment of someone's imagination. Granted, we do see witches throughout but still.



The black goat was awesome.
Old 05-20-16, 08:20 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

"What went we out into this wilderness to find?"

Spoilers throughout.



Every once in a while you watch a film and you can tell right away that it will stand the test of time. People will be talking about it, for better or worse, for years to come. The VVitch is a movie that has garnered a lot of discussion, and I've noted how divisive it is, viewers seem to really love it, or really hate it. It's inspiring passion in the viewers, but almost nobody watches the movie and says 'meh.' When you see Michael Bay's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles reboot, you think to yourself: 'wow, that was truly awful.' Then you move on with your life. Something about this movie is truly provocative, and encourages people to come into threads to remind others how much they hated the movie.

Horror movies are my bag, baby. When they scare the audience, they can be fun, but they can also be so much more. Horror films can be truly great, because of the emotions they elicit and force the audience to experience and explore. Every time I go see a horror movie in the theater, I make a point of scanning the audience to see what kind of crowd is there. You might think that it's mostly horny teenagers lining up to see the latest scary movie, but it is always the most diverse, varied crowed of any movie genre. I see white people, black people, hispanics, young people, middle-aged people, children, I see little old ladies clutching each other's hands, and yes, even some horny teenagers. Something about horror movies speaks to the humanity at its core, and everybody can relate. In comparison, when you go to see The King's Speech, it's a pretty homogeneous crowd.



So why is The VVitch such an effective movie? Because it plays on the emotions that define and motivate human beings. The film opens up with a proud declaration of righteousness. "What went we out into this darkness to find?" Is the first line we hear, spoken off-screen, and what we see is that character's daughter, wide-eyed and frightened. Her father is challenging the village elders, and attacking their faith, and adherence to God's law. Her name is Thomasin, and you can see in her eyes that she understands the gravity of her father's words, and in that very scene her family is banished from the village. This film transports us to a time in the past when life was harsher, and the wilderness was vast, mysterious, and dangerous. There are many ominous, lingering shots of the woods, darkness and the unknown are lurking just beyond the treeline. To leave behind the safety and structure of a village, to turn away from a community of people that can provide support, has huge implications in young America.

This is a time that places extreme important on religious faith. After all, life was harder, and when it's so easy to lose a child to illness, it makes sense to look to a higher power for strength in your own uncertainty. That is the framing of this film, and similar to The Exorcist, it might even be scarier for atheists. The film reveals the presence of a witch early on, which was necessary, to put the modern audience into the mindset of the characters. There could be no ambiguity about the existence of dark forces working in the shadows. This scene, was terrifying, and allowed me to relate to the characters when their paranoia overcame them. There is something in the wilderness, and it's out to get us.



Yet, the film would work without any presence of witchcraft, you could remove all of those scenes or at least chalk them up to symbolism, and the main drama of the film would still be compelling. Because this isn't really a movie about witches, it's about the frailty of the family unit in harsh conditions. Almost immediately after their departure from the village, the family feels strained. Tension escalates between the siblings, between the parents and their children. The family struggles to yield a harvest that will last them throughout the upcoming winter. Thomasin is playing peakabo with the baby when she closes her eyes for a moment, and opens them to find the baby gone and a path of swaying grass leading to the woods. It's not said, but we can tell that Katherine, her mother, holds her responsible for her baby's disappearance.

Will, the paterfamilias, breaks down and trades his wife's silver cup behind her back, in exchange for traps, he knows their crops won't sustain them, so he wants to catch his food in the very woods he forbade his children from entering. This causes Katherine, his wife, to become suspicious of Thomasin, and allows Will to bring his son Caleb into the forest for the first time. Caleb reminds his father that he was told not to enter the woods, at this same time he's asking theological questions. Caleb is complimented for reciting prayers and bible stories, but when Caleb asks his father if his baby brother was in hell, it makes Will uncomfortable. He doesn't have an answer. It's the first of many scenes where the authority figures implore the children to 'do as I say, not as I do.' Throughout the remainder of the film, each character lies, sins, and justifies their actions for the greater good.



The inevitable breakdown of this family unit is what makes it so effective. The performances are amazing, and the stakes are high for this family struggling to survive out there in the wilderness. With inexplicable external forces pressuring them at every moment, it's only natural that they would turn on each other and accuse each other of witchcraft to help explain the tragedy that this family is experiencing. Will defends Thomasin from his mother's accusations, but doesn't confess his part in her missing cup. Katherine is overcome with grief, neglects her family during her coping process, and allows her jealousy of Thomasin to cloud her judgment. Caleb steals lingering glances at his sister's chest, as he is tempted by the pangs of lust. Thomasin loses her temper and torments her sister with threats of sorcery and torture. When this family isn't reciting prayer, they're sinning, and it's hard to watch the guilt eat away at them. Not until his family is torn apart does Will admit that his own pride put them in danger. By that point, he's lost two children and alienated the remainder of his family.

For a review of The VVitch, you're probably thinking about how little I've talked about witches. That is because the family drama is the heart and soul of this film. The Witch scenes scared me, but it was watching the family struggle to cope with their grief that broke my heart, and elicited the strongest feelings from me. The horror elements of this film are just icing on the cake. And that is what makes a truly great horror film get under your skin and haunt your thoughts. The Exorcist wasn't scary because it was about the demon Pazuzu possessing a child, it was scary because it was about a mother being completely helpless when her daughter is stricken with an inexplicable and incurable illness. And like The Exorcist, future generations will scoff at how people could possibly find The VVitch scary, or even interesting, but for those who want to see the frailty of the human condition, there has not been a greater horror movie in decades.
Old 05-20-16, 08:31 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by Blade
It doesn't matter to the family, but it matters to us as the audience. It turns the movie from being a cautionary tale about faith and isolation (and thank you for pointing that out, I didn't make that connection and it is an important one) to one of actions in response to outside input. It's the difference between killing your child because you think they've been possessed by a demon and killing your child because they are possessed by a demon.
To them, there was no difference. They were so certain of their version of their religion that the belief made it real.

However, in this case, what was interesting was that the kids were NOT possessed, but the family's beliefs led them to be treated like they were. Even if Satan and the Witch are really real, it actually means little to the actions of the family, because those forces act entirely indirectly on the family until invited in.


Originally Posted by Blade
I don't think pride or the (likely) temporary loss of faith due to great tragedy are at all synonymous with not having faith. Outside the father's dogamtism, they didn't really strike me as being significantly different from what we would generally expect "normal" people of this time and place to be like in similar situations.

Which leaves the movie to be trying to have a discussion about organized vs folk religions?

I'm curious though, let's take as a given that you are interpreting the movie correctly and you are correct about their susceptibility. I'm still left with wondering how this profits Satan and what message that was supposed to relay. It seemed pretty pointless outside of a "pulling wings off a fly" type of "fun" and certainly not worth 90 minutes of my time.
I don't think there's anything fun about the film. Game of Thrones is a dark fun, ultimately meaningless but enjoyable. The Witch is pretty unique in that it's giving us a look into the mindset of people from another time, which we rarely see outside of artifacts from the time in question.
Old 05-21-16, 10:53 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Holy shit! No wonder in the theater it felt like the tops of some of the characters heads were lopped off, it's in 1.66:1.
So instead of leaving black bars on the side of the screen, my projectionist decided to zoom in on the image to fill up the screen.

A big to Davey Joe for paying respect to one of the best films of 2015 and also one of the best horror films of the last 10 years.
Right up there with Let the Right One In, House of the Devil, Bug & It Follows

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Old 05-21-16, 11:36 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Yes, this was an excellent film, IMO. I laud the director for not taking the by-the-numbers route. It would have been easy for him to essentially rehash The Crucible, play all the supernatural stuff ambiguously, and tell the standard tale that there were no witches and the real horror was the intolerance, conniving and superstition of the Puritans.

I liked The Crucible a lot, but I thought this director told a much more complex, artistically challenging story that doesn't offer any simple allegories, and is open to a wide range of interpretation.
Old 05-22-16, 08:14 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Will post more later, but just saw this last night and it is a total masterpiece. Good Lord was it amazing.
Old 05-22-16, 02:13 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

This has to be up there with the most creepiest horror films ever made. The only problem is, it's no that great of a movie.

Way too long to get the point across and the tagline at the end of the film seemed like a desperate attempt at saying "We really should have done some things different but didn't have time to go back".

I had no problem with the language, in fact, I love when movies go all out with dialogue like that - adds a level of realism.

The film just ran too long for me, just needed to be tightened up - I do believe if the film had a few extra long creepy segments it would have made up for it but as it stands....there just seemed to be to much wasted time with conversation and extended shots the ending shot didn't help things at all either - I can't stand movies that build up, build up, build up, yet leave at least several unexplained layers by the time the film ends.
Old 05-22-16, 02:18 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

^ The irony is that the film s like 85-87 minutes long WITHOUT the fucking credits and it dragged like hell.
Old 05-22-16, 05:11 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Hmm, it didn't seem to drag at all to me.
Old 05-22-16, 05:26 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

And I wanted to like it but didn't. I did think Black Phillip was cool as hell, though.
Old 05-22-16, 08:07 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Yeah exactly, technically not all that long to begin with and still felt like it should be tightened up.
Old 05-22-16, 08:33 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

I can definitely see why people might think it was too slow--in fact, I'm not sure it's a purchase for me even though I really liked it, just because it was so slow and gloomy.

But I think it kind of had to be that slow to capture the vibe the director was going for.
Old 05-22-16, 09:29 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
^ The irony is that the film s like 85-87 minutes long WITHOUT the fucking credits and it dragged like hell.
CÁLLATE LA BOCA!!!

Originally Posted by EddieMoney
Good Lord was it amazing.
Originally Posted by EddieMoney
Hmm, it didn't seem to drag at all to me.
Old 05-23-16, 09:47 AM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

Well, I'll give the flick this much credit, I haven't stopped thinking about it since I saw it.......I may just end up watching this again.
Old 05-23-16, 03:33 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

The film is exactly as long as it needed to be. It didn't feel overly long to me at all.
Old 05-23-16, 10:35 PM
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Re: The Witch (2016, D: Robert Eggers)

I took the film as an explanation on how a person becomes a witch. She doesn't necessarily choose to become a witch outright, but more of a result of circumstances around her. And that at the end of day, being a witch seems to be less evil than all of Thomasin's family members have been.

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