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Old 11-03-15, 08:26 AM   #76
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Old 11-03-15, 10:29 AM   #77
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
The impact of said events isn't meant for the viewer, it's meant to establish Batman's frame of mind in the film.
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
I'm dumbfounded why you need everything spelled out on film. I don't need to know the backstory of a dead character. It's a plot device. I think you're under the assumption that because this character has a history that he deserves screen time. That's a false assumption.
I agree with both of those.

Comics and movies are two very different mediums of storytelling. Comics have decades and decades of history. Movies have two hours. You don't need tons of backstory to understand and enjoy a movie.

While Jason Todd may be unknown to the masses, Robin in general is not. Robin is very well known by everyone. He has been featured in everything from the 60s TV series to BTAS to the Schumacher movies. I think the only times Robin hasn't been featured in a Batman story is the Burton and Nolan movies.

The Bucky comparison is flawed. Bucky was a very minor character in The First Avenger with very little screen time. Who (as in the movie watchers) actually cared when he died? I sure didn't. He just didn't have enough screen time for us movie watchers to get emotionally invested in his character. His death and resurrection wasn't done for the sake of us movie watchers. It was done for Cap's sake. It was done to show the emotional impact it had on Cap since they were childhood best friends with a deep history that wasn't shown to us movie watchers directly.

Robin will be the same as that. His death isn't done for us movie watchers. It is done simply to show the impact that it has on Batman himself. All you need to know beforehand is that Batman & Robin had a deep relationship. That's all you need to know, and everyone already knows that. Batman & Robin go together like peanut butter and jelly. They're the most well known superhero partnership of all time.

There is a very good chance that Robin will get some backstory filled in through flashbacks in both Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad. That is probably about as much screen time as Bucky had in the First Avenger.

Movies begin in the "middle of a story" all the time. The term for that is called in media res. Star Wars (1977) began in the middle of a story. You didn't need to know the history of the Jedi, Sith, Clone Wars, rise of the Empire, beginning of the Rebellion, etc to understand and enjoy Star Wars. You didn't need to know the history of Middle Earth or how Bilbo got the One Ring from Gollum to understand and enjoy Lord of the Rings. You didn't need to know Hannibal Lector's entire history prior to being imprisoned to understand and enjoy Silence of the Lambs. Much of that backstory was filled in later of course, but it certainly wasn't required knowledge beforehand.

Robin will be the same way. You don't need to know his entire history beforehand. Anything that you need to know will be filled in through flashbacks, exposition, etc. Have you ever seen the animated movie Under the Red Hood? That was a very good adaptation of Robin's death and resurrection. It didn't require a deep understanding of his history. Everything you needed to know was told through extensive flashback scenes. I imagine a live-action adaptation would be very similar to that.

Last edited by Ganondorf; 11-03-15 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 11-03-15, 12:26 PM   #78
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I think the key difference in the films you mentioned is that the events within them were self contained and didn't make a ton of references to prior events. Some may have questioned things like Vader's past but it overall wasn't important as prior to the Original Trilogy (and for twenty two years afterwards) we only knew him that way.

Spoiler:
To take a character like Jason and say that he was Robin previously but now is a villain is pointless because most know of Robin but have no idea who Jason Todd is and will probably question why Batman's ally has turned against him.
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Old 11-03-15, 12:36 PM   #79
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I think the key difference in the films you mentioned is that the events within them were self contained and didn't make a ton of references to prior events. Some may have questioned things like Vader's past but it overall wasn't important as prior to the Original Trilogy (and for twenty two years afterwards) we only knew him that way.

Spoiler:
To take a character like Jason and say that he was Robin previously but now is a villain is pointless because most know of Robin but have no idea who Jason Todd is and will probably question why Batman's ally has turned against him.
Spoiler:
All of those whos and whys can be explained through exposition and flashbacks just like the animated movie Under the Red Hood did it. Have you ever seen that movie? You should if you haven't because it is a great movie and demonstrates that you don't need extensive backstory to enjoy it.

Why does it matter that people know who Jason is? They know who Robin is, and that is all that matters. Batman's former partner died, came back to life, and is out for revenge. There. That's all you need to know to enjoy the movie. You don't need to know in detail who Jason is.

Is Jason a villain? I am not familiar with the comics, but the impression I got from the animated movie is that he is just really really pissed off but not really a villain per se.
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Old 11-03-15, 01:03 PM   #80
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Spoiler:
All of those whos and whys can be explained through exposition and flashbacks just like the animated movie Under the Red Hood did it. Have you ever seen that movie? You should if you haven't because it is a great movie and demonstrates that you don't need extensive backstory to enjoy it.

Why does it matter that people know who Jason is? They know who Robin is, and that is all that matters. Batman's former partner died, came back to life, and is out for revenge. There. That's all you need to know to enjoy the movie. You don't need to know in detail who Jason is.

Is Jason a villain? I am not familiar with the comics, but the impression I got from the animated movie is that he is just really really pissed off but not really a villain per se.
Spoiler:
I would say Under the Red Hood is a different situation. The animated features are an entirely different target audience. This film has to appeal to a more casual fanbase whereas realistically the audience watching the animated features are probably more familiar with the Batman mythos or the audience that watches them in general is probably smaller so they can take bigger risks. A film like this has to have broad appeal to make money for the studio.

As far as why it matters who Jason is, to me it does because Jason isn't who most people identify as being Robin. So just throwing him in as a main character that people are supposedly aware of because of his alter ego is kind of silly to do without having any prior knowledge of the character or any of his predecessors.

I would say Jason falls into being a villain somewhat or at least he's more of an antihero. He does take on crime but he also has no qualms with killing which I would think most wouldn't identify as being heroic.
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Old 12-10-15, 09:41 AM   #81
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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When Warner Bros first announced that "Man of Steel 2" was going to introduce Batman and pave the way for a Justice League two-part movie, the move looked like the fastest way to catch up with Marvel's strategy of moving in Phases. Now, the idea of featuring superhero teams without stopping for individual origin films looks like a full-on strategy for how to make the most of the DC properties.

Will Smith, who recently wrapped his part as Deadshot in David Ayer's "Suicide Squad," is psyched about being part of a massive superhero cinematic universe.

Since he signed on for multiple appearances as Deadshot, the rumble behind the scenes is that he wants to be an ongoing part of Warner's and DC's plans.

Right now as per my sources IF things pan out Will Smith may join Ben Affleck in his solo Batman movie, which might not end up being so solo. If Deadshot joins the Bat in the movie, it will be for a "major role" for a "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" scenario.

Nothing's locked down completely, but most of the involved parties seem enthusiastic. Getting Deadshot and Batman to join forces in a movie isn't nearly as hard as landing two A-list actors like Smith and Affleck in one movie (that Affleck will likely direct), and could be another Batman V Superman sized event instead of just another entry into the canon of Batman films.

Batman and Deadshot teamed up in the comics as recently as this year's Batman: Arkham Knight comics (starting with issue 23).

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Old 12-10-15, 09:43 AM   #82
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Aw, hell YES!
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Old 12-10-15, 09:52 AM   #83
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

No!
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Old 12-10-15, 09:55 AM   #84
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Not cool w/ a team up bullshit concept but... sure. I'm game. I trust Affleck. He's the best thing out of what WB has done. And that's because Affleck got some nice deals out of it.
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Old 12-10-15, 10:00 AM   #85
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Sure why not. Deadshot walks the line between good guy and bad. Could be an interesting scenario with a really good villain.
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Old 12-10-15, 11:49 AM   #86
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

So basically it sounds like rather than focusing on individual characters that the strategy continues to be cramming more characters into each film. Not sure how I feel about that. Honestly I'd prefer to see Batman teamed with Nightwing or someone from the Bat Family if anyone rather than Deadshot (I know he's a character from that universe but I'm not a huge fan of him or of Will Smith).
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Old 12-10-15, 12:05 PM   #87
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Might as well just make it The Batman: Brave and the Bold.
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Old 12-10-15, 12:15 PM   #88
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

No issues with Deadshot, although we still need to see Suicide Squad to know how good Smith is with the character.
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Old 12-10-15, 12:19 PM   #89
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Will Smith's bank account just lit up.
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Old 12-10-15, 12:22 PM   #90
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Isn't it always lit up?
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Old 12-10-15, 12:27 PM   #91
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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So basically it sounds like rather than focusing on individual characters that the strategy continues to be cramming more characters into each film. Not sure how I feel about that. Honestly I'd prefer to see Batman teamed with Nightwing or someone from the Bat Family if anyone rather than Deadshot (I know he's a character from that universe but I'm not a huge fan of him or of Will Smith).
Looks like they're going the Spider-Man route with trying to just cram superheroes on screen and seeing what sticks.
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Old 12-10-15, 12:42 PM   #92
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

blah. this is a dumb idea. batman needs to be by himself, or with his regular partners. no forced team ups.
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Old 12-10-15, 12:50 PM   #93
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

if its a good story, whats the problem? no trailer and already bashing.. is this the new thing with DC movie criticism? bash it and fuck it
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Old 12-10-15, 12:52 PM   #94
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

He should join him as Hancock.
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Old 12-10-15, 12:55 PM   #95
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I don't have a problem with the basic strategy but I now foresee a minor character like Deadshot getting shoehorned into every possible DC movie. By the time it gets released, Deadshot will be a fully fledged member of the Justice League.

The character does work under the umbrella of a Batman movie, so we'll have to see how it turns out.
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Old 12-10-15, 01:03 PM   #96
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I wonder if we'll see the Wayne's gunned down in this flick?
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Old 12-10-15, 04:06 PM   #97
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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if its a good story, whats the problem? no trailer and already bashing.. is this the new thing with DC movie criticism? bash it and fuck it
To me I'd just rather they go with a more traditional partner if they want to team Batman up. Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Robin, Oracle, etc. Hell I'd even be more open to someone like Red Hood since if they're using the death of Robin storyline anyways it'd make sense to have that character in the universe. A pairing with Deadshot feels randomly picked sort of and isn't what most would expect. DC to me just seems to be taking a lot of weird directions with their films.
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Old 12-10-15, 04:23 PM   #98
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

It's a great idea. Been waiting for Team up films since fuckin'-ever.
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Old 12-10-15, 04:24 PM   #99
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
To me I'd just rather they go with a more traditional partner if they want to team Batman up. Robin, Nightwing, Batgirl, Red Robin, Oracle, etc. Hell I'd even be more open to someone like Red Hood since if they're using the death of Robin storyline anyways it'd make sense to have that character in the universe. A pairing with Deadshot feels randomly picked sort of and isn't what most would expect. DC to me just seems to be taking a lot of weird directions with their films.
How is it random? Deadshot is already being elevated and presented to the non-geek public with the SQ film coming out.
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Old 12-10-15, 04:40 PM   #100
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

It's random in that Deadshot and Batman aren't really known for teaming up. They have a few times in the comics but I doubt many casual fans will make that connection. Deadshot being in the Suicide Squad establishes the character but the team is more made up of anti-heroes/villains so I don't see a clear connection to them teaming up. Obviously it depends what happens in the film but it still isn't the direction I'd go and it's much more logical to have him team up with a member of the Bat Family.

Last edited by Mike86; 12-10-15 at 04:47 PM.
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