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Old 10-30-15, 10:30 PM   #51
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Yeah, it's like they're making "The Winter Soldier" before "The First Avenger."

Too much backstory that isn't going to mean anything to the general audiences who don't read the comics.
Exactly. The full impact of these events and characters aren't going to mean much, if anything to casual audience members at all.

Spoiler:
Most people probably aren't aware there is a Robin that isn't Dick Grayson let alone do they know who Jason Todd is at all. I'm sure that audiences will accept it but the question really is why do they care? I suppose the answer is because he was a Robin but that's really it. We haven't seen the character or any of his predecessors on screen so there's not much of anything for casual fans to care about.

Fans of comics cared about the Red Hood arc because we long believed Jason to be dead so his resurrection was a surprise when it happened. To most people though it'll probably just be a "yeah okay, that's cool I suppose" and it'll probably lose a bunch of the effect of the A Death in the Family arc and Jason being brought back.

It's the exact opposite of what the MCU did with Bucky and The Winter Soldier. Where that storyline worked really well because Bucky was established even if he was only in one film as a supporting character before turning into The Winter Soldier I don't think this will work as well.


The sad thing is I'd love for stories like this to be adapted into films but the way they're doing it just seems so sad backwards.
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Old 10-30-15, 10:44 PM   #52
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Old 10-30-15, 11:22 PM   #53
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I'll take an Affleck co-written and directed Batman movie about anything over any Zack Snyder film.
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Old 10-31-15, 02:10 AM   #54
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Originally Posted by TheMovieman View Post
Well...

Spoiler:
if they are adapting Death in the Family, in whatever respect, it could come in a pre-credit sequence taking place before the events of Batman vs. Superman before jumping to the "present day" and the storyline involving Joker and The Red Hood as Batman's adversaries.

Also makes things interesting for BvS with that note "You Let Your Family Die". That could have come from Todd as a taunt to Bruce.
Oh, i'm sure they'll show parts of that. But like I said, they're still picking up the story in the middle without the additional character history before that.
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Old 10-31-15, 06:01 AM   #55
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Exactly. The full impact of these events and characters aren't going to mean much, if anything to casual audience members at all.

Spoiler:
Most people probably aren't aware there is a Robin that isn't Dick Grayson let alone do they know who Jason Todd is at all. I'm sure that audiences will accept it but the question really is why do they care? I suppose the answer is because he was a Robin but that's really it. We haven't seen the character or any of his predecessors on screen so there's not much of anything for casual fans to care about.

Fans of comics cared about the Red Hood arc because we long believed Jason to be dead so his resurrection was a surprise when it happened. To most people though it'll probably just be a "yeah okay, that's cool I suppose" and it'll probably lose a bunch of the effect of the A Death in the Family arc and Jason being brought back.

It's the exact opposite of what the MCU did with Bucky and The Winter Soldier. Where that storyline worked really well because Bucky was established even if he was only in one film as a supporting character before turning into The Winter Soldier I don't think this will work as well.


The sad thing is I'd love for stories like this to be adapted into films but the way they're doing it just seems so sad backwards.
Add in that the care for the character is added on more cuz Cap is an emotional guy. He loves his friend and Cap 1 really showed how much he cared about him. So since we love Cap, his emotions are kind of extended to the audience.

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I'll take an Affleck co-written and directed Batman movie about anything over any Zack Snyder film.
This. I'm excited to see wtf an actual filmmaker that gives a damn about making quality can do w/ this.
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Old 10-31-15, 04:13 PM   #56
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I've liked all of Affleck's directorial efforts but I'm not convinced that this film will be good solely because of his name being attached for starring and directing. His films so far have been crime dramas for the most part and one rescue mission drama. I think he'll be a good choice but we haven't seen him direct something close to a superhero film in scale.
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Old 11-01-15, 01:18 PM   #57
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I've liked all of Affleck's directorial efforts but I'm not convinced that this film will be good solely because of his name being attached for starring and directing. His films so far have been crime dramas for the most part and one rescue mission drama. I think he'll be a good choice but we haven't seen him direct something close to a superhero film in scale.
Neither did Nolan until Batman Begins, Singer with X-Men, or Raimi with Spider-Man.

The 2nd unit director will help him with all the big action scenes. They always hire a veteran 2nd unit director when they hire an action newb as the main director.
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Old 11-01-15, 01:38 PM   #58
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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While I do wish the same actor would play the character in the movies forever for continuity's sake, that is an impossible expectation in the real world. I can't realistically expect Michael Keaton to still be playing Batman 25 years later. Imagine if Sean Connery was still playing James Bond. Who wants an 80 year old James Bond?
I rather liked Roger Moore, thank you very much.
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Old 11-01-15, 02:29 PM   #59
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I rather liked Roger Moore, thank you very much.
Roger Moore's era was the worst way for Bond to travel in tone. I can't much for Dalton cuz I don't remember his films, I think I actually only saw one. And then Brosnan's just kept getting more idiotic.
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Old 11-01-15, 02:48 PM   #60
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Originally Posted by kgrogers1979 View Post
While I do wish the same actor would play the character in the movies forever for continuity's sake, that is an impossible expectation in the real world. I can't realistically expect Michael Keaton to still be playing Batman 25 years later. Imagine if Sean Connery was still playing James Bond. Who wants an 80 year old James Bond?
But by that same token, Hugh Jackman will have been Wolverine for 17 years by the time his (allegedly final) movie comes out. That's an usual case, and would be even weirder to think about in terms of Keaton being Batman from 1989-2006.
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Old 11-01-15, 05:34 PM   #61
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Roger Moore's era was the worst way for Bond to travel in tone. I can't much for Dalton cuz I don't remember his films, I think I actually only saw one. And then Brosnan's just kept getting more idiotic.
I think "The Spy Who Loved Me" competes with "Goldfinger" for the best Bond film, though Moore's films took a huge downturn with "Moonraker."

Dalton's films were sort of odd; TLD seemed like it was trying to be an 80s action flick, while LTK was an extended episodeof Miami Vice.

When I watched Brosnan's films, I was sort of surprised that they as bad as I thought they would be.
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Old 11-01-15, 05:47 PM   #62
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Dalton did gritty Bond before Craig got all the credit for it.
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Old 11-01-15, 06:11 PM   #63
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I'm really surprised that people are angry they aren't going to get more backstory on Batman. Do we really need to see Thomas and Martha gunned down in an alley AGAIN?
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Old 11-01-15, 09:35 PM   #64
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Neither did Nolan until Batman Begins, Singer with X-Men, or Raimi with Spider-Man.
Nor James Gunn and Guardians, Jon Favreau and Iron Man...

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Originally Posted by Mike86 View Post
Exactly. The full impact of these events and characters aren't going to mean much, if anything to casual audience members at all.
The impact of said events isn't meant for the viewer, it's meant to establish Batman's frame of mind in the film.
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Old 11-01-15, 09:53 PM   #65
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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The impact of said events isn't meant for the viewer, it's meant to establish Batman's frame of mind in the film.
Regardless of that using that storyline as part of the set up and story for this film without establishing any of those characters beforehand is dumb because it makes those events lose pretty much all meaning. There are a ton of ways to show how fucked up Batman's frame of mind is, he's one of the easiest characters to establish that with. Using characters and events of a storyline that aren't shown are just going to make a lot of casual viewers feel lost in my opinion. Besides that even if it is about establishing Batman's mindset in this film the viewer should still care why he is that way. Ultimately a storyline like this at this point does nothing but lead to confusion for people unfamiliar with the source material.
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Old 11-02-15, 07:14 AM   #66
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I can't much for Dalton cuz I don't remember his films, I think I actually only saw one.
He only made two, so...
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Old 11-02-15, 07:57 AM   #67
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

someone please report this thread to a mod... essentially spoils the ending of BvSoJ. Now I know that Batman lives.
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Old 11-02-15, 11:53 AM   #68
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Regardless of that using that storyline as part of the set up and story for this film without establishing any of those characters beforehand is dumb because it makes those events lose pretty much all meaning.
I'm dumbfounded why you need everything spelled out on film. I don't need to know the backstory of a dead character. It's a plot device. I think you're under the assumption that because this character has a history that he deserves screen time. That's a false assumption. Do you need an entire film dedicated to Thomas and Martha Wayne to accept Batman's mindset or enjoy a Batman film? Of course not, you accept it because it's a plot device to establish a character. I don't see how this is any different.
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Old 11-02-15, 12:12 PM   #69
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

There's a difference though.

Thomas and Martha Wayne dying is all you need. We all have parents, most of us, and we can understand the horror of losing them in such a manner. It's a shitty thing. It's also a simple thing to construct emotion and motivation from.

Having someone, as rumored, like that is all kinds of different. We might care about Bats' emotions cuz it's Bats and we just easily position that but we don't get the warranted emotion of the loss. We can understand his loss but we won't get the depth of his loss. For us to feel the shock or surprise of that? It has to be earned. Cap's films have done well w/ that. It's earned and the surprise is stronger.
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Old 11-02-15, 01:27 PM   #70
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I'll take an Affleck co-written and directed Batman movie about anything over any Zack Snyder film.
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Old 11-02-15, 06:58 PM   #71
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I'm dumbfounded why you need everything spelled out on film. I don't need to know the backstory of a dead character. It's a plot device. I think you're under the assumption that because this character has a history that he deserves screen time. That's a false assumption. Do you need an entire film dedicated to Thomas and Martha Wayne to accept Batman's mindset or enjoy a Batman film? Of course not, you accept it because it's a plot device to establish a character. I don't see how this is any different.
The Thomas and Martha Wayne deaths are an entirely different story. Most people are familiar enough with what happened to them that it doesn't have to be shown on screen to establish Bruce becoming Batman. Using a different character that most people are unfamiliar with and jumping straight into what is far along into his career and turning him into a villain is dumb. Martha and Thomas Wayne aren't being used in the films to further progress the story like this character will be (if the rumor is true).

It seems to me like DC is making too many assumptions that people are familiar with the Batman mythos or just that people will accept whatever they stick Batman in with just because without establishing shit. It's shitty story telling in my opinion.
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Old 11-02-15, 07:46 PM   #72
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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Using a different character that most people are unfamiliar with...
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Old 11-02-15, 08:00 PM   #73
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

Okay? I'm trying to be purposefully vague so as not to get ragged on for spoilers.
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Old 11-02-15, 11:47 PM   #74
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

I dare them to call this movie The Goddamn Batman.
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Old 11-03-15, 05:45 AM   #75
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Re: The Batman (D: Ben Affleck)

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I've liked all of Affleck's directorial efforts but I'm not convinced that this film will be good solely because of his name being attached for starring and directing. His films so far have been crime dramas for the most part and one rescue mission drama.
Sounds like a great match for a Batman film - the tone/style of Gone Baby Gone, The Town would be awesome imo.
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