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Old 05-14-17, 07:55 PM   #701
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Hey, I loved "Prometheus". And while I agree that the writing could have been better, I thought it was original. I also loved the cast, cinematography, and felt it had a pretty cool idea for a backstory. "Covenant" is just a bad rehash of the original "Alien". You don't give a shit about a single character, there is zero suspense and the gore is boring. The character Daniels is also no Ripley. Which I read is what Scott was going for.
Oh, as someone who also loved Prometheus, that's a disappointing take.
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Old 05-15-17, 02:13 AM   #702
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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I was going to walk away from my controversial assertions, but thank you for providing evidence Josh. This was one of Ridley's bizarre ideas that I just recently learned about. Most people have seen the deleted scene with Dallas being cocooned and assumed, logically, that the Alien was going to use the surviving crew members as hosts for more spawn. Maybe they were just a food source. Oh no, no, no ... Ridley contends the people were actually being turned into eggs. People ... Turning into ... Eggs ...
Actually, I think that makes more sense, and makes the alien more alien, as opposed to them being comparable to Earth insects, like ants or bugs as Hudson called them, complete with a hive and a queen.

I also don't think that humans were supposed to be a source of food for the xenomorphs, until Alien 3. Prior to that, it seemed that it killed the crew of the Nostromo to ensure its own survival. It was meant to be the ultimate killing machine, complete with an acid-for-blood defense mechanism.

But if that scene hadn't been deleted, we might not have gotten the awesome Queen vs Ripley battle in Aliens.
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Old 05-15-17, 08:30 AM   #703
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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I've intermittently been reading this thread (for fear of spoilers) and so many fears of failure with this film, but no real mentioning of The Martian, a critical and box office success, and Prometheus didn't exactly lose money.
Did you forget that in between The Martian and Prometheus were The Counsellor & Exodus: Gods and Kings. And before Prometheus was Robin Hood & Body of Lies.

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This is a very capable director
Who even though his fans don't want to admit is very hit or miss and is only as good as the writing.
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Old 05-15-17, 09:00 AM   #704
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Who even though his fans don't want to admit is very hit or miss and is only as good as the writing.
I forget where I read this, but it was a comparison of the Scott brothers: Tony (RIP) was like going to Mcdonalds, not good food but you'll be satisfied if thats what you were looking for, comfort food. Ridley is like going to an unknown Bistro, it may be great or could be inedible. Tony would never reach the heights of Ridley (Alien, Blade Runner, Martian), but never reach the lows either.
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Old 05-15-17, 01:00 PM   #705
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Frankly, "Alien" is probably tne biggest clusterfuck of a franchise I've ever seen.
Hellraiser has to be close.
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Old 05-15-17, 04:05 PM   #706
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Ridley gave "Prometheus" a big fuck you with this.
Acceptance is a step in the right direction.
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Old 05-15-17, 06:06 PM   #707
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

To me, Ridley Scott films of the last 20 years or so only have the guarantee that they will look good. If the script and/or acting is good, it's not because of him. If they're bad, he doesn't elevate them, which makes him wildly hit-or-miss.
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Old 05-16-17, 09:45 AM   #708
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

Daytripper is right on the money - I liked Prometheus and thought that Covenant was just a hair above Resurrection - it's terrible. The characters are stupid and unlikeable - which is a tall order because I LIKE Bichir, Crudup and McBride in general but they've got nothing to work with. Waterston is wasted and never steps up to be 'the next Ripley' and Fassbender is the only shining spot in this mess.

Once the Xeno's show up it's paint by numbers - no suspense or tension, just a fast moving alien enters the room, kills someone, leaves - repeat. I also don't like that there is a chestburster scene that is so comical I thought I was watching Spaceballs (and just because technology has changed doesn't mean we need to redefine the LOOK of something that has been consistent up to this point). Honestly the last 15 minutes felt like parody to me - so familiar yet done so poorly. I was counting down the days to this one, now I doubt I'll ever bother with it again.
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Old 05-16-17, 02:31 PM   #709
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Actually, I think that makes more sense, and makes the alien more alien, as opposed to them being comparable to Earth insects, like ants or bugs as Hudson called them, complete with a hive and a queen.

I also don't think that humans were supposed to be a source of food for the xenomorphs, until Alien 3. Prior to that, it seemed that it killed the crew of the Nostromo to ensure its own survival. It was meant to be the ultimate killing machine, complete with an acid-for-blood defense mechanism.

But if that scene hadn't been deleted, we might not have gotten the awesome Queen vs Ripley battle in Aliens.
You WHAT?! Are you honestly saying it makes more sense for a human being to be turned into an egg rather than be used as a host/incubator for a parasite? You are saying it actually makes more sense for a 6 foot tall human being weighing 150-200 pounds (a rather complex biological organism) to actually physically morph into a 30 inch tall leathery spherical object with a double-vagina opening on top and an alien embryo inside.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury ... I present you with evidence that Ridley Scott IS a forum member.

OK, beyond that bat-shit insanity, let's agree on something. I agree the intent was never that humans were a food source (though it would be logical). I agree that is a wise choice.

Back to a disagree though ... I don't think it makes sense that it would automatically begin hunting the crew out of a sense of self-preservation. In that case, you are being counter-intuitive and presenting the xenomorph as a sympathetic creature. There must be a motivation at the basest of levels ... food or procreation. Continuation or perpetuation of the species. Not an ingrained instinct for total devastation. You comment that you don't like the insect-like analogy, but it works.

I will agree that it seemed to be created (naturally or otherwise) to kill ... which leads us back to Prometheus territory.
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Old 05-16-17, 03:08 PM   #710
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

The origins

StarBeast — Prologue: Alien, Dan O’Bannon’s Cosmic Horror

https://monsterlegacy.net/2015/02/05...cosmic-horror/
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Old 05-16-17, 03:20 PM   #711
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
You WHAT?! Are you honestly saying it makes more sense for a human being to be turned into an egg rather than be used as a host/incubator for a parasite? You are saying it actually makes more sense for a 6 foot tall human being weighing 150-200 pounds (a rather complex biological organism) to actually physically morph into a 30 inch tall leathery spherical object with a double-vagina opening on top and an alien embryo inside.
Yes. First off you're right though, that it doesn't make sense for an approximately 180lb human to turn into a 30-inch egg. But neither does it make sense for a small chest buster to grow to an 8-9 foot tall creature without any type of sustenance. That defies physics.

But it does make sense to me, story-wise because what happens when one xenomorph is released in a foreign environment? Yeah, it will kill a bunch of life forms, but eventually, without a queen, the species will die off or be killed. By allowing the regular xenomorphs the ability to create eggs, it makes them a much greater threat to other species/planets.

Alien 3 cocoons
Apparently, Fincher was going to use the human-cocoons idea. I think it would have made he movie better to have that scene, in addition to having Giger's original female-looking xenomorph.


Quote:
Back to a disagree though ... I don't think it makes sense that it would automatically begin hunting the crew out of a sense of self-preservation. In that case, you are being counter-intuitive and presenting the xenomorph as a sympathetic creature.
Good point. Maybe to ensure it's dominance is a better word.

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There must be a motivation at the basest of levels ... food or procreation. Continuation or perpetuation of the species. Not an ingrained instinct for total devastation. You comment that you don't like the insect-like analogy, but it works.
It definitely works, and the Alien series is better off with what Cameron introduced in order to make that first sequel so good.

I just think it makes them slightly less strange.

Quote:
I will agree that it seemed to be created (naturally or otherwise) to kill ... which leads us back to Prometheus territory.
I think it's interesting to have the eggs in Alien 1 be the result of the space jockey's xenomorph creating them all. But it breaks too many more rules to really work.
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Old 05-16-17, 03:26 PM   #712
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
The origins

StarBeast — Prologue: Alien, Dan O’Bannon’s Cosmic Horror

https://monsterlegacy.net/2015/02/05...cosmic-horror/
Thanks. That was a good read.

Reading the inspiration for both O'Bannon and Giger it's pretty easy to see the way the series should have gone.
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Old 05-17-17, 07:30 AM   #713
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

I didn't realize until I started looking into theatrical showings this weekend that the movie is NOT in 3D. I thought Scott stated that he was pretty much committed to 3D (with the exception of "The Counsellor", ), and this film would seem to be a good fit for the process.
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Old 05-17-17, 04:35 PM   #714
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

Resisting the urge ... resisting ... failing ...

Yes, everything Scott says should be believed.
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Old 05-17-17, 07:23 PM   #715
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Re: Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2) (D: Scott) S: Fassbender

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Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
Resisting the urge ... resisting ... failing ...

Yes, everything Scott says should be believed.
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