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Old 07-31-13, 12:32 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Yeah, it's no fucking Transformers trilogy.

Yeah, it had direct to video sequels, the sure sign of film greatness.
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Old 07-31-13, 12:40 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Brack
Yeah, it had direct to video sequels, the sure sign of film greatness.
And that matters how?
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Old 07-31-13, 12:48 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Brack
Yeah, it had direct to video sequels, the sure sign of film greatness.
So did Bambi, Aladdin, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Lady and the Tramp and The Sandlot. Guess that means these movies must suck then.
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Old 07-31-13, 01:01 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
And that matters how?
Matters about as much as your comparison of it to Transformers.

Transformers never pretends to be more than what it is, unlike Starship Troopers. Sorry, but Starship Troopers pales in comparison to Paul Verhoeven's earlier and better examples of satire like Robocop and Total Recall. Terrible script and acting. Joyless to watch.
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Old 07-31-13, 01:13 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by bluetoast
So did Bambi, Aladdin, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Lady and the Tramp and The Sandlot. Guess that means these movies must suck then.
You're comparing normal direct to video to Disney?

The Sandlot wasn't a hit. The others were, but a lot of them were very old Disney movies, and not a good risk for theatrical. Plus Disney mainly wanted to make easy cash while still releasing new product. That's usually their MO when it comes to animation, no?
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Old 07-31-13, 09:43 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Well they should be able to make a few decent jokes at the bad acting, and actors in their late 20s early 30s playing teenagers.
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Old 07-31-13, 09:53 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Brack
Matters about as much as your comparison of it to Transformers.

Transformers never pretends to be more than what it is, unlike Starship Troopers. Sorry, but Starship Troopers pales in comparison to Paul Verhoeven's earlier and better examples of satire like Robocop and Total Recall. Terrible script and acting. Joyless to watch.
And the Transformers films are such joys to watch? Yeah, no.
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Old 07-31-13, 09:56 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

What will they do next? The Naked Gun? "Hey, look how silly these cops are!"
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Old 07-31-13, 10:03 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

While I agree that riffing a good movie can work, it still doesn't live up to classic MST3K episodes of awful movies. Part of the fun was not just the riffing, but watching an extremely bad movie unfold with bad acting, poor lighting and sound, goofy special effects, etc. I've enjoyed a couple of the Rifftrax commentaries of classic movies like Halloween, but I found others unwatchable, such as the Dark Knight. I enjoyed the movie so much I just wanted to watch it without the rifftrax, sure there were some funny jokes, but the overall experience was nothing like watching Manos the Hands of Fate for the first time.

Twilight would have been a great movie to riff because it is unintentionally corny, filled with bad acting, and bizarre moments. All of those moments are intentional in Starship Troopers, and the entire movie is rather tongue-in-cheek and satirical, that I worry that some of the riffs may fall flat. I'm sure there will be some funny moments, but for one of the live theater experiences I think it would be better to go with a genuinely, unintentionally awful film.
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Old 07-31-13, 10:08 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Brack
Matters about as much as your comparison of it to Transformers.

Transformers never pretends to be more than what it is, unlike Starship Troopers. Sorry, but Starship Troopers pales in comparison to Paul Verhoeven's earlier and better examples of satire like Robocop and Total Recall. Terrible script and acting. Joyless to watch.
I'll give you Robocop but have you watched Total Recall lately? That movie is ROUGH...dated as hell, cheesy effects, bad action. Has not aged well at all.

Whereas Starship Troopers is still pretty solid and the effects (especially the bugs) are great.
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Old 07-31-13, 10:45 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Never been to one so I might go if they're doing the R-rated version.
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Old 07-31-13, 04:08 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Draven
I'll give you Robocop but have you watched Total Recall lately? That movie is ROUGH...dated as hell, cheesy effects, bad action. Has not aged well at all.
I actually think Total Recall is just as good if not a superior film to Robocop. The whole mindfuck element was great. Effects look good to me, better than most CGI today. Loved the action too, not sure how it's any worse than Robocop's.

How has Robocop not aged? I never thought the movie looked like it was in the near future. Everyone was dressed in 80s attire. I love the movie, but it's aged as well.

All movies "age", but Starship Troopers never held up.

Whereas Starship Troopers is still pretty solid and the effects (especially the bugs) are great.
Solid how? The acting is horrendous. The bugs are boring, and the effects are terribly cheesy. I think the cheesy effects were the point.

The RiffTrax crew should have a field day with Casper Van Dien's performance alone.
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Old 07-31-13, 04:13 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
Twilight would have been a great movie to riff because it is unintentionally corny, filled with bad acting, and bizarre moments. All of those moments are intentional in Starship Troopers, and the entire movie is rather tongue-in-cheek and satirical, that I worry that some of the riffs may fall flat. I'm sure there will be some funny moments, but for one of the live theater experiences I think it would be better to go with a genuinely, unintentionally awful film.
Sorry, I never had the feeling all the acting and drama was intentionally corn ball in Starship Troopers. Simply saying it all was is a cop out, considering some of the actors do well while others do not. The only satirical moments came from the news coverage and ppropaganda stuff. The aliens and action scenes are unintentionally awful.
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Old 07-31-13, 04:25 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Brack
Sorry, I never had the feeling all the acting and drama was intentionally corn ball in Starship Troopers. Simply saying it all was is a cop out, considering some of the actors do well while others do not. The only satirical moments came from the news coverage and ppropaganda stuff. The aliens and action scenes are unintentionally awful.
We can agree to disagree. Even you admit that the film has satirical elements, and I highly doubt the riffing will be as funny as say the Space Mutiny episode of MST3K.
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Old 07-31-13, 04:54 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe
We can agree to disagree. Even you admit that the film has satirical elements, and I highly doubt the riffing will be as funny as say the Space Mutiny episode of MST3K.
It was lazy satire at best. Not a compliment by any means. Had only a fraction of it compared to Robocop and Total Recall, but not done nearly as well.

ST is going to be easy to riff on; every action scene, the character drama, and every speech made. Just wish I could go to this, I will be on vacation.

For all those wishing for a Twilight RiffTrax, they already did one years ago. Can't imagine it being any better than that one.
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Old 07-31-13, 05:04 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Nah, it's actually pretty clever and biting satire. It probably helps though that I've read the Heinlein novel, so I can appreciate its subversion of his rather militaristic worldview.
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Old 07-31-13, 06:33 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

"They got us Johnny!"

So says the kids from Argentina.

Yeah, not clever at all.

Brack, how old are you and how old were you when you first saw the film?
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Old 08-01-13, 01:45 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

I saw it in theaters, I was 16. About 5 years older than the target audience.

Saw it again within the last year. Had the same reaction. It's just not clever. The aliens alone don't make any sense. Why are they using useless machine guns?

And I didn't see how the satire was biting. It was maybe 5-10 minutes of the movie. The rest was bad soap opera drama.
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Old 08-01-13, 09:37 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Brack
I saw it in theaters, I was 16. About 5 years older than the target audience.

Saw it again within the last year. Had the same reaction. It's just not clever. The aliens alone don't make any sense. Why are they using useless machine guns?

And I didn't see how the satire was biting. It was maybe 5-10 minutes of the movie. The rest was bad soap opera drama.

Again, that was part of it.
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Old 08-01-13, 11:05 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by Why So Blu?
Again, that was part of it.
Part of what? An idiotic scenario? That's not clever or satirical. It's just lazy action sequences. You see nukes sporadically, then they get down to business with machine guns. You can only help to root for the bugs. Humans in this world are too stupid to live.

It doesn't matter how much I back up my opinions with what is on the screen, all you will do will use the "that was the point", no matter what.

By the way, I'm watching this on AMC as I write this. The action is just tedious and boring with the never-ending machine gun battles. Always was. Laughably bad. But that's part of it, right?

The action in Robocop and Total Recall was never boring.
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Old 08-01-13, 11:28 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

http://www.avclub.com/articles/starship-troopers,41966/

Spoiler:
Reporter: “Some say the bugs were provoked by the intrusion of humans into their natural habitat, that ‘live and let live’ is preferable to war with the bugs.”

Johnny Rico: “Let me tell you something. I’m from Buenos Aires, and I say ‘Kill ’em all!’” —Starship Troopers

Creators of science fiction are by nature forward-thinking and occasionally prescient, but after rewatching Paul Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers—to my mind the most subversive major studio film in recent (or distant) memory—I now wonder if Verhoeven and his screenwriter, Ed Neumeier, had access to a time machine. Because even though it was produced in 1997—and based on a Robert Heinlein novel from 1959—Starship Troopers is such a clean, strong, almost direct post-9/11 allegory that Verhoeven and Neumeier had to have seen what was coming. Just a few of the connections:

Buenos Aires as the Twin Towers, the destruction of which provides fuel for a retaliatory effort with no foreseeable endpoint, much less an exit strategy.
An unwieldy conventional military force squaring off against a nimble, relentless insurgency whose leadership is rooted in sophisticated cave complexes.
The refusal of the government—and their media abettors—to entertain the notion that the enemy might have been provoked by its foreign policy. (Or, as the reporter says above, “The intrusion of humans into their natural habitat.”) The phrase “They hate our freedom” is never uttered in Starship Troopers, but neither is any other rationale for what the bugs might be thinking.

Then again, Starship Troopers isn’t a satire about any specific war, it’s a brilliant dissection of how all wars work—how they’re packaged and sold via propaganda, how the enemy is (in this case, literally) dehumanized, how young people are sent eagerly to sacrifice on the front lines. For Verhoeven, it’s a subject that’s continually haunted his career, currently bookended by two films, 1977’s Soldier Of Orange and 2006’s Black Book, that cover the Dutch occupation and resistance in World War II with equal parts patriotic fervor and an ironic, often cynical sense of history. Verhoeven was only 7 when the war ended, but his memories of German-occupied Holland obviously made a deep impression on him. Back when I interviewed him for Black Book, Verhoeven recalled a particularly harrowing incident when he and his family had to pass through a German blockade in order to get back home:

We were suddenly forced by the Germans to take another route to our house. They wouldn't allow us to take the normal way, and instead, we were forced to pass the bodies of Dutch citizens that were taken out of prison by reprisal, because some German officer had been killed on that street. The Germans would take something like 20 or 30 people out of prison—political prisoners, resistance fighters, sometimes just criminals—and they would put them on the road at the spot where the German soldier was killed, and they would execute them. And so that had happened in the street next to our house, and my father and I were forced to pass the dead bodies as an act of terror. Of course, the Germans were showing us that if we were, let’s say, naughty or bad, that they would shoot you and kill you.

Though Starship Troopers is a generalized critique of war, Verhoeven’s preoccupation with World War II dominates the look of the film, which is loaded with Nazi allusions and compositions on loan from Leni Riefenstahl, whose propaganda films lionized order and physical beauty. Only here, the fascists are our heroes in the Federation, the governing body that’s working to ensure that humans, not bugs, control the galaxy. And for some critics and viewers, that’s where the confusion sets in: Was Starship Troopers an endorsement of fascism? Or at the very least, a thoughtless, juvenile celebration of young people sacrificing themselves for the good of mankind? Audiences are naturally inclined to root for the gung-ho hero in space adventures like these, and certainly the bugs, whose motives are somewhere between inscrutable and nonexistent, seem like ghastly adversaries, worthy of extermination. What’s more, the Heinlein novel is considered a stirring defense of militarism and the necessity of war and civic duty, so an adaptation would surely honor those themes, right?

Wrong. Verhoeven spends much of the essential commentary track on the Starship Troopers DVD making emphatically clear that the film is an anti-war satire, that fascism is “bad, bad, bad,” and that “war makes fascists of us all.” But intent means nothing if a work itself suggests a contrary reading, so I’d endorse another way of detecting the satirical elements of Starship Troopers: Open your eyes. There’s so much evidence onscreen—and in Verhoeven’s career, especially in Robocop, his other collaboration with Neumeier—that I don’t see how it could be missed, but a lot of intelligent people got it wrong nonetheless. Or maybe they just underestimated it: Big-budget science-fiction spectaculars like this one aren’t expected to have subtext, and Verhoeven, an exceptionally skilled technician (the effects here are still astounding), does well in presenting the surface of the dopily exciting showdown between humans and giant space bugs. He also avoids the overt absurdity of something like Dr. Strangelove, which makes its agenda clear from the character names (General Jack D. Ripper, Colonel “Bat” Guano) on down. Nevertheless, how can you possibly look at clips like this one, from the government-run Federal Network, with a straight face?

Verhoeven and Neumeier are very clever in the way they parcel out information about life under Federation rule. (Humanity uniting under one banner suggests the equivalent of the Third Reich achieving world domination.) The Federal Network newsreel-style clips issue direct calls to action (“Join Up Now!” “Why We Fight”) along with messages about patriotism and civic duty, even among children who scrap playfully over guns and bullets or smash giant cockroaches underfoot. Yet the key to the Federal Network’s power isn’t necessarily the clips themselves—which feature such great cultural advancements as televised executions (after whiplash-swift justice) and barely censored “censored” violence—but the prompt at the end, “Would you like to know more?” That’s what makes it effective as propaganda: the illusion of knowledge, the illusion of choice, the illusion that people have control over their own destinies.

Other details emerge in the classroom, where our dimwitted hero Rico (Casper Van Dien) gets his civics lessons from his favorite teacher, Mr. Rasczak (a brilliant Michael Ironside), who doubles as a stealth military recruiter. In a world where “service guarantees citizenship,” Mr. Rasczak explains that only citizens (as opposed to their second-class counterparts, “civilians”) are allowed to vote because “something given has no value,” and that violence is the supreme authority. “Naked force has settled more issues in history than any other factor,” he says. “The contrary opinion that violence never solves anything is wishful thinking at its worst.” For guys like Rico, Carmen (Denise Richards), and their friends, all specimens of Aryan beauty—and in Argentina, of all places—the path from graduation to the recruiting station is really the only viable one. As the maimed veteran stamping their papers cheerfully jests, they’re “fresh meat for the grinder.”

In the scheme of Starship Troopers, it’s important that the actors be pretty and vacuous, and their characters’ romantic dilemmas of the most banal variety imaginable. Hence the casting of Van Dien and Richards in the lead roles, instead of Hollywood stars with more history and substance, who might have torpedoed the film with any hint of self-awareness. (Neil Patrick Harris, as a brainy military intelligence officer who struts around arrogantly in a Gestapo-like trenchcoat, is the only young cast member who seems in on the joke.) It’s barely worth talking about the romantic quadrangle that consumes these characters when they aren’t fighting off bugs. Rico and Carmen are high-school sweethearts whose separate military tracks—he’s a Mobile Infantry grunt, she’s training to pilot massive warships—find them pairing off with people in their station. Their shallow conflicts give the film shape and direction, but it’s obvious Verhoeven and Neumeier find them petty and stupid. (One bizarre example: When Van Dien comes to blows with his romantic rival, Verhoeven mutes this grand melodramatic moment by flooding the soundtrack with the dreamy Mazzy Star single “Fade Into You.”)

As much as Starship Troopers concerns itself with satiric speculation over what a fascist society of the future might look like, it’s also about the gears of war and how the young and beautiful become “fresh meat for the grinder.” One of my favorite running jokes in the movie is Rico’s meteoric rise through the ranks of Mobile Infantry, which happens partly because he shows courage and initiative, but mostly because the men above him keep getting killed. (“I need a corporal,” says Mr. Rasczak. “You’re it until you’re dead, or I find someone better.”) For the men and women on the ground, the war against the bugs is not only pointless, but never-ending: The biggest battle scene in the film, a showdown at a fortress overwhelmed by the enemy, ends in a retreat, with a lucky handful escaping a horizon filled with infinite waves of arachnids and flies. The bugs are not only more efficient killing machines than humans, but by all appearances, they can reproduce faster, too. When some brave soldiers capture the “brain bug” at the end, it’s a hollow triumph, because it’s a senseless war they’re biologically and militarily doomed to lose. For the suckers going for citizenship, their greatest hope is to sacrifice a limb or two, and get back home; otherwise, the best and the brightest can expect the high honor of being ceremonially jettisoned into the vast nothingness of outer space.

Even if you don’t find Starship Troopers as prescient as I do, the years have been kind to it, if only because it’s now removed from the context of whatever expectations people might have had for it at the time. It seems absurd now to write it off as some silly piece of escapism, as its detractors complained, and the amount of detail Verhoeven and Neumeier invest in their cinematic universe keeps cultists like myself coming back to it. (The commentary track also ranks among my favorite ever, alongside that of The Limey.) Each viewing seems to yield a new revelation—this time, Carmen asking Rico to “write her” via video message, suggesting an illiterate society—or something else to discuss, like the co-ed showers and military units, an intriguingly progressive sign that the battle of the sexes ended in a draw. I suspect its future is bright: The line between the world of Starship Troopers and Sarah Palin’s Twitter feed gets thinner every day.
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Old 08-01-13, 11:49 AM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 08-01-13, 12:01 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

This film anaylsis is giving the film way too much credit, like it's A Clockwork Orange or Fight Club of scifi action. Give me a break.

I don't believe a movie is very satirical if the first half of the movie is mostly bad soap opera, and how that's necessary for the film. If it's necessary for an utterly predictable film, sure. Why aren't the Twilight films given the same treatment as them being a satire on fantasy romance?

I don't see many correlations to this movie and the 9/11 attacks. For one, the humans aren't attempting to occupy a country, but eradicate an alien species. We get one line from a tv news reporter about how the aliens may have been provoked. It's not like the humans are looking for WMDs that never existed.

The action is tedious and boring. That was the point? If it was, I don't care, because it's still just tedious and boring no matter how you dress it.
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Old 08-01-13, 12:11 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

I can't wait for these guys to Rifftrax Scary Movie. I bet they'd be great at pointing out all the crappy horror movie cliches.

I saw the ad for this last night and don't get how they could possibly think it would be a good idea to do a riff trax for a movie that is already an intentional riff on a genre.
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Old 08-01-13, 12:22 PM
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Re: Rifftrax Live: Starship Troopers August 15th

Originally Posted by BambooLounge
I can't wait for these guys to Rifftrax Scary Movie. I bet they'd be great at pointing out all the crappy horror movie cliches.

I saw the ad for this last night and don't get how they could possibly think it would be a good idea to do a riff trax for a movie that is already an intentional riff on a genre.
Between the hurtling bug asteroids, missiles that shoot out of alien asses, and the horrendous acting by all, especially Casper Van Dien, I don't think they have much to worry about.

It really wasn't as intentional as many think here. The propaganda ads were, but nothing else fits within that narrative. Couldn't we just have one smart character? Is that too much to ask, if only to show how dumb everyone is?
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