Nick Martin

Supermallet said start a thread about IMAX and he'll answer questions, so here it is.

Only theater here near me with an IMAX screen is of course, the DLP 'LieMAX' format.

Couldn't believe how small it was compared to a genuine IMAX screen.

Anyway, down to the point of the thread:

Solid Snake, pose thy questions and hopefully Supermallet can DVDTalk-ify the answers!



The title is a joke. IMAX is a Canadian company....there's something we did right

Solid Snake

ok. why lieMAX? what exactly is lieMAX and why can I tell the difference when i see it? is it the screen? The projection?

IMAX is projected horizontally on a reel. Soooooo when (for example) Nolan shoots on it..what does that really look like for the shooting reels? How is that kind of thing transported for shooting on feature films while...shooting it? They don't literally carry it on that vehicle w/ the IMAX cam rig...right?

bluetoast

Also, how do they look at the dailies properly if they are "in the field"?

Supermallet

"LieMAX" is a term coined by people who went to digital IMAX theaters and discovered the quality of the experience was noticeably lower than film.

Film IMAX is 70mm film that runs horizontally, and instead of four perforations it has 15. This results in a markedly larger image, as seen in these comparisons:





The screen is also significantly bigger to accomodate such a massive image. Digital projectors are not currently capable of filling such large screens and maintaining image quality. So, in order to expand their brand and lower costs by going into the digital realm, IMAX had to reduce the screen size (although screens are still somewhat larger than a regular digital/35mm screen). Additionally, instead of using 4k projectors, IMAX decided to go for two 2k projectors to increase brightness and possibly result in a higher quality 3D image. This doesn't make for a 4k image, though, as the pixels are overlaid on top of one another.

This is a comparison of two real IMAX screens in New York:



Between the size of the screen and the resolution of the image, it should be immediately obvious to anyone who has seen both that digital IMAX is far inferior. However, IMAX does not go out of its way to point out the differences nor do they advertise which theaters are film or digital. When people discovered these differences, and the lack of information coming from IMAX, they began to refer to digital IMAX as "LieMAX." Had IMAX simply called their digital theaters DigiMAX they could have avoided a lot of those issues.

Supermallet

Dailies have to be viewed in an IMAX-capable screening room. David Keighley Productions, or DKP, processes the negatives and makes the answer prints. They have a small-sized auditorium for daily screenings. However, as their auditorium is so small it's not really representative of how the images look in a real IMAX theater, so often filmmakers will book real IMAX theaters in the city where they're shooting to run the dailies. I've run dailies of several films myself.

Snake, I'm not quite sure what you're asking about shooting and reels, but I will try to answer:

IMAX film is so large that it has several physical constraints. One of them is that a single reel of IMAX film is about three minutes, because anything larger would require a much larger camera to hold the magazine, and the cameras are already larger than 35mm or 4-perf 70mm cameras. Aside from the size of the reels and its orientation in the camera and projector, the rest of the process is fairly similar to 35mm. Does that answer your question?

whotony

There is an omnimax screen in Philly at the Franklin Insitute. Only thing I ever saw in there was a planetarium display not a movie.

How does one actually watch a movie, comfortably in a dome?

Supermallet

With a neck pillow, I guess.

Don't forget that IMAX was originally designed for documentaries and educational films. The majority of productions that use IMAX films are still those types of movies. They typically run 40 minutes, which actually used to be the maximum an IMAX platter could hold (well, 60 minutes but 40 minutes is the norm). Omnimax would have been developed for the same purpose, but mainly for planetariums. The idea of running feature-length Hollywood films came much later in the company's life and now theaters are being retrofitted to accomodate this, but they weren't designed for it. So seeing a feature-length film in a dome is not ideal, but can provide some spectacular moments for footage shot with IMAX cameras (as someone was mentioning in the TDKR thread, seeing Batman leap off the building made the audience feel like they were falling, too).

Solid Snake

pretty much, yes. I didn't know how big the reel was when they'd shoot. In my head I imagined them to be...much much bigger.

What films did you see dailies of?

Supermallet

Most of them were educational, but I have seen a few from major features that shot in IMAX. I'll let you imagine what those might be.

DonnachaOne

I know this is Supermllet's arena, but if I may, I'd like to say a few things about "LieMAX".

Simple answer: "LieMAX" is where IMAX converts existing theatres to put in a larger screen and speakers, along with two digital projectors.

Longer answer: "LieMAX" (which I'll call IMAX Digital for the rest of this, because, while it's ridiculous that IMAX doesn't differentiate the terms, "LieMAX" just sounds stupid and isn't helpful) is where IMAX has deemed a theatre large enough to create "the IMAX experience", a nebulous marketing term which means "we can put in a big screen and speakers in this auditorium".

IMAX Digital theatres are never built or rebuilt. They are existing auditoriums in multiplexes that IMAX augment slightly. Currently IMAX have a deal with AMC to put IMAX Digital screens in appropriate AMCs across North America, so chances are if you see an AMC has an IMAX screen suddenly, it's most probably an IMAX Digital.

First, the screen. IMAX surveyors look at the auditorium and work out the largest screen that will fit inside the auditorium. These screens vary in size (and even aspect ratio, ranging from 1.8:1 to 2:1) to make sure the largest size is used. These screens will fit from ceiling to floor, or wall to wall, whichever is largest. Typically these screens will be 25% - 60% larger than the screens they are replacing (since there's no hard-and-fast rule about screen size in theatres, it's very variable). The front rows of seats in the auditorium are removed so that the new screen can be built closer to the audience, slightly concave, to add to the sense of immersion. These screens never have masking curtains or mattes: as with any digital print, the recorded image is the 1.78:1 image field with black bars on the top and bottom for 1.85:1 and 2.39:1 movies, and the projected images will fill the screen as much as possible without affecting the aspect ratio (on a 2:1 IMAX Digital screen, a 1.85:1 image will have narrow black bars on the sides, whereas a 2.39:1 image will have black bars on the top and bottom). Movies shot with IMAX cameras will typically have their IMAX footage cropped to fit the screen; for The Dark Knight and Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol, the 2.39:1 image would open up to fill the whole IMAX Digital screen - even though this "opened up" image still cropped the IMAX-shot image on the top and bottom.

Second, the sound system. Most theatres have 5.1 sound, but even with that, they generally have several speakers along the left-and-back and right-and-back of the theatre, all playing the respective surround channels. IMAX does not have several speakers along the left and right (though they may leave the unused old speakers up). Instead, IMAX has a massive cluster of speakers in each corner, as well as very large center and subwoofer speakers. It's still 5.1, though.

No, what really matters: the projection. Your usual digital projection cinema uses one digital projector. IMAX Digital uses two, and therein lies its chief advantage over regular digital projection. When blown up large, most digital projectors do not have the ability to adequately light large screens, and when projecting a 2K image (2048×1080) viewers perceive blocky pixels or faint dark lines, like looking at a TV up close. IMAX Digital overlaps two 2K images, with one projector slightly offset to "fill in" those dark lines. While this makes for a sharp picture, it is common to still see jaggedness around high-contrast letters. IMAX Digital uses two 2K Christie Digital projectors which have a very large "throw" (the area a projector can light adequately; if it's 40ft wide or more, it's probably a Christie or a Barco), and in addition to the smoothness, you get additional brightness.

That additional brightness comes in handy with 3D movies. Most 3D movies are projected by one projector with a polarizing lens that splits the recorded image into two "eyes". When you watch a 3D flick, look up to the booth: you'll see two images against the port glass , usually on top of each other (common with Sony) or overlapping (common with Christie). Christie's polarizer does this without losing a ton of brightness, but Sonys are miserable for this - in addition to the polarizing lenses, which filter out some of the projected light, the Sonys have a large prism lens attachment to split the beam, and it almost halves the light output. Watching a 3D flick on a Sony is scarcely as satisfying as on a Christie. And IMAX Digital uses two of those Christies, side by side. Double the light output means a more satisfying presentation, 3D or not, and while the IMAX Digital has a larger screen to fill, the screens are usually closer to the projection booth than in other large auditoriums, making it seem all the brighter.

So, what are the problems with IMAX Digital? Well, the name, first and foremost. You can't give people a hot dog and say "that's filet mignon". IMAX have tried to rebrand themselves and they've done a pretty terrible job of it, alienating customers. The quality of a digital image doesn't hold a candle to properly projected 15/70. Even when most 35mm prints are the 4K scan printed onto 35mm film, the 2K IMAX Digital print won't be as defined.

Second, the projectors are 2K, not 4K like the Sonys - provided the theatre has a 4K print (most theatres still get 2K digital prints; they're easier to create and upload to servers and can run on most digital projectors), it'll look more defined than an IMAX Digital print.

Third, the glasses - RealD has a deal with the studios to have the studios foot the bill for glasses. IMAX doesn't, so theatres have to buy their own IMAX glasses and keep eyewear washing & sanitizing equipment, along with additional staff to collect, wash and sanitize the glasses between shows, and those glasses don't have a long life. Who's paying for these additional costs? You are.

Last, the upkeep of the machines: IMAX are very protective of their software and tech, so if there's a problem, they want you to call them, in Canada, rather than a theatre tech. IMAX will never answer the phone and will never answer your message inside fifteen minutes no matter what their machine says. An IMAX tech, assuming one gets back to you, will then troubleshoot, try logging into the software remotely, and talk your projectionist through fixing the machine. I was once on the phone with a very nice woman, who was in China, for close to four hours. On any other projector I could have solved the problem myself or called a technician to come out and have a look in much quicker turnaround of time. IMAX projectors, since there are two of them, also need to be calibrated every morning to focus the two projectors together accurately, along with balancing and testing the picture and sound. This takes about forty-five minutes, has to be done in silence and ideally in total darkness, and is very sensitive - if it picks up the rumblings of the theatre next door, it'll fail calibration, and use the last good known configuration.

Are there any benefits to an IMAX Digital presentation over a 15/70 IMAX presentation?

Well, yes. But they're limited.

15/70 is still film projection, and that means a shaky image and the chance of a dirty print. I saw Mission: Impossible - Ghost Protocol in its first week of release at Chicago Navy Pier and it was filthy. The print was oily and grubby, and there was dust in the projector's aperture, which was very noticeable when blown up huge. Furthermore, most 15/70 theatres were not built for customer comfort, instead intended for documentary exhibition, and the seats were rigid with practically no legroom. Most auditoriums in multiplexes, on the other hand, if they were built in the last fifteen years have some rock to the seats, have them wider, and are more comfortable.

So, how do you know if you're getting ripped off? It's difficult, because quite honestly, I don't think I'm ever going back to Chicago Navy Pier's IMAX again. But if you want to know information about your local theatre's "IMAX", it's simple -

Call them.

Ask if their IMAX is digital or film.

If the employee you speak to sounds unsure, ask to speak to the manager. The manager, if they're worth anything, will know. If not, they don't need your business.

Did they tell you outright that it's digital? Good. Ask how much the surcharge is. If it's a 3D film and the surcharge is one or two bucks more than the RealD option, I'd say it's worth it. If it's a 2D movie, then it's really up to you; at least now you know if it's a 15/70 IMAX or an IMAX Digital.

Given The Dark Knight Rises has so much shot-with-IMAX-cameras footage, that's how I'll be seeing it.

Supermallet

Great write up, but it should be noted that a properly projected 15/70 presentation should have very little jitter (the film system is designed to minimize jitter far more than 35mm or 4-perf 70) and should have little to no dirt. Unfortunately, there are some lazy projectionists out there who don't do appropriate upkeep on their projectors.

DonnachaOne

Agreed. That's why I italicized and underlined "properly projected". My post was already long...

bluetoast

Didn't know that Digital IMAX theaters have variable aspect ratios and end up chopping off the footage they were specifically supposed to show properly.

Also, even though traditional IMAX theaters (such as Air and Space) are built for documentary shows and may have worse seating than normal theaters, do the newer film based IMAX theaters have better seats?

Supermallet

If they're attached to a regular movie theater, chances are they're designed for more comfort. If they're standalone or attached to a museum/planetarium/science center, the seats will probably not be the best.

DonnachaOne

It does stink. It's not really applicable to say "the footage they were specifically supposed to show properly", because honestly, the filmmakers who shot the film that way probably wouldn't want you watching a lower-resolution digital print anyway.

Generally, yeah. Most movie theatres built since the late 90s have had more comfortable seats. Again, I stress most. IMAX won't change out the seats, they'll just have front rows removed.

Jules Winfield

Is there going to be a test on this?

P.S.-Like reading about the technical aspects. Don't do it much and have nothing to add but I like reading about it. Keep it up, guys.

DonnachaOne

The test will be whether you come out of the movie satisfied or not!

I like Supermallet's pictures. I used many of the same ones when I explained the differences to my staff (I had to, after the propaganda the IMAX rep filled their heads with).

Supermallet

Donnacha, funny you should mention poor response from IMAX techs. Must be their opinion of digital, because we can get hold of somebody any time of the day or night, and they'll walk us through just about anything over the phone.

DonnachaOne

Must be! I called them last Friday over server issues, and it was Friday evening before any of my calls were answered. You know, because I can cancel my Friday shows so easily.

Supermallet

Ugh, that sucks. I guess they prioritize film over digital because the costs are so much higher with film.

Supermallet

Actually, this makes me wonder, what server software does digital IMAX use? Is it something proprietary IMAX cooked up or a pre-existing software?

whotony

I found a very good IMAX/theater discussion board about a month ago but now I can't find it again

Giles

well at one point it was supposed to be two Sony 4K projectors stacked, but that idea went out the window (thankfully). IMAX digital uses Texas Instrument 2K chip technology. However the laser technology that is coming out in 2013 will be in collaboration with Barco.

Giles

I was at Air & Space the week before last, and the screen at Natural History for a screening prior that same day. Natural History's screen is newer and IMO has better more comfortable seats than A&S - I also think the screen at NH is larger 60X90ft. 'Avatar' on Natural History's screen was very odd - it didn't fill the entire screen as others have pointed out - it sit squarely in the center of the screen with massive black borders surrounding the film. Interestingly comparing IMAX-Digital to say Cinemark's Egyptian's XD screen it became very apparent that the screen for the latter is more 1.85 than the typical IMAX-Digital screen (at 1.78) - scope films have very small black borders and are less obtrusive than when seen on IMAX or IMAX-Digital screens.

major gripe: apparently the Smithsonian had done some polling of IMAX patrons and figured out that booking shorted abbreviated versions of films was what they should present - so.... this means if you check on their website and a film's running time is less than 30 minutes and more than 20 - it's an edited version - this is the case for 'Flying Monsters 3D' and 'Air Racers 3D' - the latter will be shown at A&S adjunct museum Udvar-Hazy at it's full 40 minute running time, just not in 3D, since they don't have a 3D projector ...

JTH182

DonnachaOne (or anyone in the Chicagoland area), have you been to the South Barrington IMAX? I'm thinking of getting tickets for there, but haven't seen their IMAX screen. I assume it's digital.

I saw TDK in Batavia and was impressed, but Barrington is closer for me. I'd rather see it on the best screen possible.