The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread - Page 19

kgrogers1979 · 05-07-12, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC

I'd take a Hawkeye/Black Widow film over a film over just one of them. They work well together.

That's funny because

Spoiler:

But yeah a Hawkeye/Black Widow movie of them doing the Ultimates (or Avengers) undercover black ops missions would be awesome. That's basically what they did in the comics.

Draven · 05-07-12, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC

I'd take a Hawkeye/Black Widow film over a film over just one of them. They work well together. And if they did...I'd hope it'd be a spy thriller of sorts while also having some good action. Which is funny cuz not since The Ultimates has Hawkeye ever been a SHIELD agent, correct? I don't mind it...fits well in the cartoon too.

That movie is already plotted. It could easily be about the past situations they mentioned in this movie. Then it fits right into the continuity too. Hell, we even saw a "scene" from it already in The Avengers, when they were watching their file footage.

Flatlander · 05-07-12, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacoby Ellsbury

The thing that went unanswered for me is how do they get Hulk to fall in line. He was going around smashing everything in sight, good or bad, but all of a sudden with a larger force of enemies at hand he cooperates with the Avengers?

This got me as well too. The way I at least explained it to myself is that when Stark and Banner are at SHIELD, I can't remember the exact line but Stark tells Banner that he has to learn how to control it like Stark and the ARC reactor. When Stark was confident that Banner would return to fight I took that as they came up with a way for Banner to control it. Since they were both in the lab for some time.

Other than that I am as lost as well as Hulk only destroys but when the battle started, Banner could control himself to change into the Hulk when he wanted to without a stresser.

Supermallet · 05-07-12, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgrogers1979

That's funny because

Spoiler:

But yeah a Hawkeye/Black Widow movie of them doing the Ultimates (or Avengers) undercover black ops missions would be awesome. That's basically what they did in the comics.

I really, really hope they don't do this in the movies. I know that all of these films have taken some inspiration from the Ultimate universe, but the Ultimates was mainly awful. I don't understand why Mark Millar is so popular in comics.

kgrogers1979 · 05-07-12, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermallet

I really, really hope they don't do this in the movies. I know that all of these films have taken some inspiration from the Ultimate universe, but the Ultimates was mainly awful. I don't understand why Mark Millar is so popular in comics.

Mark Millar is popular for the same reason Michael Bay is popular.

The Ultimates was basically a Michael Bay movie in comic book form. Big flashy explosions and non-stop ass kicking with a paper-thin plot. It was basically a multimillion-dollar blockbuster movie in comic book form, and the closest thing we had to a big screen adaption of the Avengers... until we actually got one now...

I really doubt the movies will turn Black Widow into a villain though. That only ever happened in the Ultimates, and not the main universe. Plus I don't think Scarlett could play a convincing villain anyway.

Hokeyboy · 05-07-12, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermallet

I really, really hope they don't do this in the movies. I know that all of these films have taken some inspiration from the Ultimate universe, but the Ultimates was mainly awful. I don't understand why Mark Millar is so popular in comics.

What, you didn't think "HULK WANTS FREDDIE PRINZE JUNIOOOOOORRRRR!!!" was the pinnacle of comics writing?

Millar is garbage. His entire shtick is taking existing comics concepts and subverting them with healthy doses extra-rapey violence.

Supermallet · 05-07-12, 12:25 PM

What's funny is that we managed to get some decent movies out of Millar comics, but only by changing many aspects of the source material. I've never read a Millar comic I didn't hate thoroughly.

Burnt Thru · 05-07-12, 12:32 PM

Perhaps I'm alone in thinking this but I didn't particularly like Loki as the villain. He's alright, but nothing that memorable. Certainly not someone I could imagine actually subjugating the entire Earth, and not a villain who will be remembered in the same breath as any of the greats of cinema, such as Darth Vader.

Burnt Thru · 05-07-12, 12:38 PM

The greatest thing about the movie, to my mind, was the way the different tones of each character's particular universe were preserved within the context of a single cohesive film. As an example Iron Man is full of self loathing and intelligence which was preserved whenever Robert Downey Junior was on screen. But in contrast Captain America is slower and more "traditional" which was also somehow incorporated. It was somehow possible to view various sections of the movie successfully from the perspective of different characters but the characters then also interacted in a reasonable manner also. Quite some feat, and something which must have taken a good deal of planning.

That being said the plot was fairly basic (Transormers 4, effectively) which I'm guessing must have been necessary in order to accommodate all of the characters and their varied viewpoints.

Mordred · 05-07-12, 12:48 PM

So can anyone explain to me why the Hulk is, on the airship, an uncontrollable killing machine who can't distinguish friend from foe, but on the ground he's now Mr. Team Player who only takes out the bad guys?

Please don't say it's because he's angry all the time.

Boba Fett · 05-07-12, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordred

So can anyone explain to me why the Hulk is, on the airship, an uncontrollable killing machine who can't distinguish friend from foe, but on the ground he's now Mr. Team Player who only takes out the bad guys?

Please don't say it's because he's angry all the time.

Spoiler:

Hokeyboy · 05-07-12, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermallet

musick · 05-07-12, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flatlander

This got me as well too. The way I at least explained it to myself is that when Stark and Banner are at SHIELD, I can't remember the exact line but Stark tells Banner that he has to learn how to control it like Stark and the ARC reactor. When Stark was confident that Banner would return to fight I took that as they came up with a way for Banner to control it. Since they were both in the lab for some time.

Other than that I am as lost as well as Hulk only destroys but when the battle started, Banner could control himself to change into the Hulk when he wanted to without a stresser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordred

So can anyone explain to me why the Hulk is, on the airship, an uncontrollable killing machine who can't distinguish friend from foe, but on the ground he's now Mr. Team Player who only takes out the bad guys?

Please don't say it's because he's angry all the time.

he was being manipulated by Loki via the scepter on the helicarrier
remember when they (Avengers) are all in the same room together arguing as the camera is panning around .... the image is then flipped upside down showing the group with the glowing scepter in the foreground ... Banner even picks up the scepter without knowing it....

on the ground the staff is not within their vacinity to influence their actions

d2cheer · 05-07-12, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordred

So can anyone explain to me why the Hulk is, on the airship, an uncontrollable killing machine who can't distinguish friend from foe, but on the ground he's now Mr. Team Player who only takes out the bad guys?

Please don't say it's because he's angry all the time.

Might as well chime in here, that was the only real fault I had with it too.

After the movie when I was thinking about it and remembered him holding the staff I figured that it probably had something to do with that.

But enjoyed this as much as a person can enjoy a movie and will be seeing it again in the theater at some point. My son has already went twice and wants to see it a third time.

Mordred · 05-07-12, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musick

he was being manipulated by Loki via the scepter on the helicarrier
remember when they (Avengers) are all in the same room together arguing as the camera is panning around .... the image is then flipped upside down showing the group with the glowing scepter in the foreground ... Banner even picks up the scepter without knowing it....

on the ground the staff is not within their vacinity to influence their actions

Except the staff was on top of the building that the Hulk was also on (for part of the time), and he didn't seem to have any problems then.

My other complaint with the movie was the impenetrable portal shield being conveniently penetrable due to a "failsafe" that the scientist built in to sabotage everything while still under Loki's brainwashing power. How does that make any sense?

Anyway, I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but I wouldn't call it a great movie by any stretch.

Draven · 05-07-12, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordred

My other complaint with the movie was the impenetrable portal shield being conveniently penetrable due to a "failsafe" that the scientist built in to sabotage everything while still under Loki's brainwashing power. How does that make any sense?

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the "failsafe" Loki's crystal? It was a natural way to get through the shield. Like a diamond can only be scratched by another diamond.

Quote:

Anyway, I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but I wouldn't call it a great movie by any stretch.

These kinds of statements make no sense to me. If I enjoy the hell out of a movie, that means I thought it was great. I don't enjoy movies I think are bad.

joeblow69 · 05-07-12, 01:29 PM

So am I the only one that was expecting this movie to flop? My take was "Who cares about a bunch of b-grade superheros getting together?" Apparently, everyone does!

Hokeyboy · 05-07-12, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draven

These kinds of statements make no sense to me. If I enjoy the hell out of a movie, that means I thought it was great. I don't enjoy movies I think are bad.

You never enjoyed a movie that you thought was pretty good, but not great?

I enjoyed the hell out of, say, 21 Jump Street, but I wouldn't call it a great movie...

superdeluxe · 05-07-12, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draven

That movie is already plotted. It could easily be about the past situations they mentioned in this movie. Then it fits right into the continuity too. Hell, we even saw a "scene" from it already in The Avengers, when they were watching their file footage.

Budapest?

musick · 05-07-12, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordred

Except the staff was on top of the building that the Hulk was also on (for part of the time), and he didn't seem to have any problems then.

My other complaint with the movie was the impenetrable portal shield being conveniently penetrable due to a "failsafe" that the scientist built in to sabotage everything while still under Loki's brainwashing power. How does that make any sense?

Anyway, I enjoyed the hell out of the movie, but I wouldn't call it a great movie by any stretch.

yeah sorry I don't have the spec sheet with the range of Loki's fictional scepter
I guess listing the range in the dialogue would have made this superhero movie much more realistic

superdeluxe · 05-07-12, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordred

So can anyone explain to me why the Hulk is, on the airship, an uncontrollable killing machine who can't distinguish friend from foe, but on the ground he's now Mr. Team Player who only takes out the bad guys?

Please don't say it's because he's angry all the time.

Maybe it is the Godzilla story..when there is no greater threat..he picks on the poor citizens of Japan. When Gamora shows up, he kicks Gamora's ass.

superdeluxe · 05-07-12, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeblow69

So am I the only one that was expecting this movie to flop? My take was "Who cares about a bunch of b-grade superheros getting together?" Apparently, everyone does!

Yes you were the only one. And B-Grade superheros? huh? Avengers is a A-list team.

Draven · 05-07-12, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokeyboy

You never enjoyed a movie that you thought was pretty good, but not great?

I enjoyed the hell out of, say, 21 Jump Street, but I wouldn't call it a great movie...

If I genuinely "enjoyed the hell" out of something, then I think it's a great movie. If I liked it or thought it was OK, I say it that way instead. And for the record, I thought 21 Jump Street was a great movie too.

Way better than it had any right to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superdeluxe

Budapest?

I know they mentioned that but I couldn't remember if they'd mentioned more.

Mordred · 05-07-12, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draven

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the "failsafe" Loki's crystal? It was a natural way to get through the shield. Like a diamond can only be scratched by another diamond.

There was this bit of dialog I'm paraphrasing:

Black Widow: Loki had brainwashed you. You didn't know what you're doing.
Stellan: But I think I did. I built in a failsafe.
[Exaggerated look at the staff down below]

Quote:

These kinds of statements make no sense to me. If I enjoy the hell out of a movie, that means I thought it was great. I don't enjoy movies I think are bad.

I didn't say it was a bad movie... just a light weight enjoyable film that didn't always make sense, but had snappy dialog that I enjoyed, even if I thought the finished product dragged on a little long. It was immensely entertaining and had several awesome/hilarious scenes, but I wouldn't pay money to see it again in theaters.

Mordred · 05-07-12, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeblow69

So am I the only one that was expecting this movie to flop? My take was "Who cares about a bunch of b-grade superheros getting together?" Apparently, everyone does!

I didn't think it would flop, but I didn't expect it to do much better than Iron Man.

View Poll Results: The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread
	104	37.55%
	82	29.60%
	50	18.05%
	22	7.94%
	7	2.53%
	5	1.81%
	3	1.08%
	1	0.36%
	0	0%
	1	0.36%
	1	0.36%
Avengers Disassemble!	1	0.36%
Voters: 277. You may not vote on this poll

05-07-12, 12:25 PM	#457
Supermallet Moderator Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Termite Terrace Posts: 39,298	Re: The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread What's funny is that we managed to get some decent movies out of Millar comics, but only by changing many aspects of the source material. I've never read a Millar comic I didn't hate thoroughly. __________________ "if you truly want to discuss Sodom with me, send me a PM" - dvdjunkie32 Watch me squawk on Twitter: @Supermallet Check out my Bond commentaries

05-07-12, 12:32 PM	#458
Burnt Thru DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: gloucester, uk Posts: 2,127	Re: The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread Perhaps I'm alone in thinking this but I didn't particularly like Loki as the villain. He's alright, but nothing that memorable. Certainly not someone I could imagine actually subjugating the entire Earth, and not a villain who will be remembered in the same breath as any of the greats of cinema, such as Darth Vader. __________________ “Life breaks everyone, and afterward many are strong at the broken places.”

05-07-12, 12:38 PM	#459
Burnt Thru DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: gloucester, uk Posts: 2,127	Re: The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread The greatest thing about the movie, to my mind, was the way the different tones of each character's particular universe were preserved within the context of a single cohesive film. As an example Iron Man is full of self loathing and intelligence which was preserved whenever Robert Downey Junior was on screen. But in contrast Captain America is slower and more "traditional" which was also somehow incorporated. It was somehow possible to view various sections of the movie successfully from the perspective of different characters but the characters then also interacted in a reasonable manner also. Quite some feat, and something which must have taken a good deal of planning. That being said the plot was fairly basic (Transormers 4, effectively) which I'm guessing must have been necessary in order to accommodate all of the characters and their varied viewpoints. __________________ “Life breaks everyone, and afterward many are strong at the broken places.”

05-07-12, 12:48 PM	#460
Mordred DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 11,537	Re: The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread So can anyone explain to me why the Hulk is, on the airship, an uncontrollable killing machine who can't distinguish friend from foe, but on the ground he's now Mr. Team Player who only takes out the bad guys? Please don't say it's because he's angry all the time. __________________ PSN: MordredKLB \| last.fm \| Music Ratings: 2009 2010 2011 2012 "Mordred is a very smart man." - JasonF

05-07-12, 01:29 PM	#467
joeblow69 DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 3,687	Re: The Avengers (Whedon, 2012) — The Reviews Thread So am I the only one that was expecting this movie to flop? My take was "Who cares about a bunch of b-grade superheros getting together?" Apparently, everyone does!