Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
06-18-09, 05:10 PM
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Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
As I'm making my way through the Disney animated features, I'm finding the "making of" features especially fascinating. In particular, I'm somewhat surprised to learn how many of the animators on his staff had serious "falling outs" with Walt.
For JUNGLE BOOK, the "making of" feature details how long-time and highly respected storyboard man Bill Peet had a falling out with Walt and left (or was forced to leave) the company. Bill had apparently been a major force behind many of the previous releases. Hard to believe Walt would want someone of his talents to leave. Maybe it was Bill's fault, or maybe Walt's. But it turns out this wasn't an isolated case.
For LADY AND THE TRAMP, the "making of" details how one of the disney animators (I forget his name at the moment) really came up with the original story, even going so far as to storyboard most of it out. In fact, the character of "Lady" was based upon his own personal pet cocker spaniel. But again, this person had a "falling out" with Walt and left (or was forced to leave) the company. Then, in a surprising (to me) move, Walt hired some book author to officially write a "Lady and the Tramp" novel which he then later claimed the animated feature was based on. This was a deliberate effort to deny credit to the former Disney animator who was truly the founder of this one. Wow -- it really comes across as an almost malicious move by Walt.
For 101 DALMATIONS, the "making of" details how Walt apparently hated the look of the film and blamed one of the lead animators (again, I forget his name). But apparently Walt held a very long grudge against this guy, because in the feature the guy is interviewed on camera and he describes how one day, many years later, Walt visited him and gave him a look that basically said "I forgive you". The guy explains that Walt never said a word, but that he knew he had been forgiven by the look Walt gave him. This was like 2 weeks before Walt passed away. So between the release of Dalamations and two weeks before Walt's passing, he apparently held a grudge against this guy and this poor guy apparently felt really bad about it the whole time.
Anyway.... I find all of this fascinating because whenever you see Walt on camera he comes across as a very kind, polite, likeable, friendly, gentle person. But these "making of" features seem to reveal that he might have been somewhat of a tryant to work for!
Granted, it was his company and it's his name on the final product. And of course he's the boss. But the animators he had working for him on those early classic features were amazingly talented artists and storytellers -- and deserved to be treated with a lot of respect IMO.
Anyone know if a biography/documentary was ever made about Walt himself? I'm wondering if his public image wasn't a true picture of the man, and if in reality he might have been a very difficult person to work for.
For JUNGLE BOOK, the "making of" feature details how long-time and highly respected storyboard man Bill Peet had a falling out with Walt and left (or was forced to leave) the company. Bill had apparently been a major force behind many of the previous releases. Hard to believe Walt would want someone of his talents to leave. Maybe it was Bill's fault, or maybe Walt's. But it turns out this wasn't an isolated case.
For LADY AND THE TRAMP, the "making of" details how one of the disney animators (I forget his name at the moment) really came up with the original story, even going so far as to storyboard most of it out. In fact, the character of "Lady" was based upon his own personal pet cocker spaniel. But again, this person had a "falling out" with Walt and left (or was forced to leave) the company. Then, in a surprising (to me) move, Walt hired some book author to officially write a "Lady and the Tramp" novel which he then later claimed the animated feature was based on. This was a deliberate effort to deny credit to the former Disney animator who was truly the founder of this one. Wow -- it really comes across as an almost malicious move by Walt.
For 101 DALMATIONS, the "making of" details how Walt apparently hated the look of the film and blamed one of the lead animators (again, I forget his name). But apparently Walt held a very long grudge against this guy, because in the feature the guy is interviewed on camera and he describes how one day, many years later, Walt visited him and gave him a look that basically said "I forgive you". The guy explains that Walt never said a word, but that he knew he had been forgiven by the look Walt gave him. This was like 2 weeks before Walt passed away. So between the release of Dalamations and two weeks before Walt's passing, he apparently held a grudge against this guy and this poor guy apparently felt really bad about it the whole time.
Anyway.... I find all of this fascinating because whenever you see Walt on camera he comes across as a very kind, polite, likeable, friendly, gentle person. But these "making of" features seem to reveal that he might have been somewhat of a tryant to work for!
Granted, it was his company and it's his name on the final product. And of course he's the boss. But the animators he had working for him on those early classic features were amazingly talented artists and storytellers -- and deserved to be treated with a lot of respect IMO.
Anyone know if a biography/documentary was ever made about Walt himself? I'm wondering if his public image wasn't a true picture of the man, and if in reality he might have been a very difficult person to work for.
Last edited by moonraker; 06-18-09 at 05:13 PM.
06-18-09, 06:05 PM
#2
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
I'm halfway through Neal Gabler's mammoth, exhaustive Walt Disney bio, The Triumph of the American Imagination, and the general sentiment seems to be that although Disney could be an extremely difficult taskmaster, he cared deeply for all of his employees, and wasn't asking anything of them that he wouldn't do himself. He worked tirelessly around the clock, and put all of his profits back into the company. It's an excellent read, and highly recommended for anyone with any interest in Disney - the man or the company.
06-18-09, 06:09 PM
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Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
Yes, he was a tyrant to a degree. Like all H'wood producers of his time he was controlling, manipulative, machavelian, and made many enemies. Just how much of a tyrant is controversial. He made many great friends and there are people who sung his praises to their graves (and some, like Richard Sherman, who are still alive). There have been scathing biographies that wiped their ass with his legacy, there have been kind biographies, there have been authorized biographies by the Disney company that paint him as a saint. Like so many figures of the 20th century he was a bit like Citizen Kane, everyone knew him, but he wasn't really "known" or understood by anyone.
There has been a documentary made by the Disney company that is interesting, but simplified and biased toward the happy.
There has been a documentary made by the Disney company that is interesting, but simplified and biased toward the happy.
06-19-09, 09:09 AM
#4
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
I'm halfway through Neal Gabler's mammoth, exhaustive Walt Disney bio, The Triumph of the American Imagination, and the general sentiment seems to be that although Disney could be an extremely difficult taskmaster, he cared deeply for all of his employees, and wasn't asking anything of them that he wouldn't do himself. He worked tirelessly around the clock, and put all of his profits back into the company. It's an excellent read, and highly recommended for anyone with any interest in Disney - the man or the company.
This book is a MUST read. It expertly charts the transition of Disney as consummate creative artist/commitment to quality-phobe to the perception of Disney as safe, homogenized, wrinkle-free, unchallenging family entertainment. An amazing insight into perhaps the greatest creative-meets-commercial juggernaut of the 20th Century.
06-19-09, 09:52 AM
#5
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
I recommend Richard Schickel's "The Disney Version," a critical biography that was started while Disney was still alive.
I'd advise you to look up the animators' strike in the early '40s. It was quite a bitter fight and a number of Disney animators left and went on to start up UPA a few years later, which became a major competitor of Disney's, in terms of animated shorts, in the 1950s, particularly at Oscar time. Disney had an alarmingly paternal attitude toward his employees and when they struck, he took it as a personal affront. He later blamed the strike on communists and was one of the "friendly" witnesses before HUAC (House Un-American Activities Committee) in October 1947, along with other studio heads and Hollywood right-wingers. (These were the hearings that gave us the infamous Hollywood Ten or "Unfriendly Ten," who would become the first victims of the Hollywood blacklist.)
The great thing about Warner's cartoon studio is that there was no "Disney" commanding it. Leon Schlesinger was just a businessman who had an uncanny knack for bringing the right people together and letting them turn out hilarious cartoons. How else could we have gotten Chuck Jones, Tex Avery and Bob Clampett? Under Disney, these talents would never have emerged. To get a sense of Schlesinger check out Friz Freleng's Looney Tune, "You Ought to Be in Pictures," from 1940. It places Daffy Duck and Porky Pig in the live-action Warner Bros. studio and even has Schlesinger in some very clever scenes as himself. He's clearly being directed by Freleng. Disney would never have let himself be used that way by one of his directors. When he appeared in front of the camera it was to be "Disney." He called the shots.
I have a lot more to say about Disney, but it could get really complicated and angry, so I'll save it for another thread, another day.
I'd advise you to look up the animators' strike in the early '40s. It was quite a bitter fight and a number of Disney animators left and went on to start up UPA a few years later, which became a major competitor of Disney's, in terms of animated shorts, in the 1950s, particularly at Oscar time. Disney had an alarmingly paternal attitude toward his employees and when they struck, he took it as a personal affront. He later blamed the strike on communists and was one of the "friendly" witnesses before HUAC (House Un-American Activities Committee) in October 1947, along with other studio heads and Hollywood right-wingers. (These were the hearings that gave us the infamous Hollywood Ten or "Unfriendly Ten," who would become the first victims of the Hollywood blacklist.)
The great thing about Warner's cartoon studio is that there was no "Disney" commanding it. Leon Schlesinger was just a businessman who had an uncanny knack for bringing the right people together and letting them turn out hilarious cartoons. How else could we have gotten Chuck Jones, Tex Avery and Bob Clampett? Under Disney, these talents would never have emerged. To get a sense of Schlesinger check out Friz Freleng's Looney Tune, "You Ought to Be in Pictures," from 1940. It places Daffy Duck and Porky Pig in the live-action Warner Bros. studio and even has Schlesinger in some very clever scenes as himself. He's clearly being directed by Freleng. Disney would never have let himself be used that way by one of his directors. When he appeared in front of the camera it was to be "Disney." He called the shots.
I have a lot more to say about Disney, but it could get really complicated and angry, so I'll save it for another thread, another day.
06-19-09, 11:12 AM
#7
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
After the strike, Disney Studios was never the same again. World War II already took a huge chunk out of their animation output and quality, and the strike was THE most mitigating factor that pushed Walt into doing more live action films, true nature films, shorts, and eventually television and the theme parks.
My favorite tactic of the organizers was to throw around charges of "antisemitism" at Disney in order to rally their troops and garner sympathy (many Disney employees were Jewish, not to mention rival studio execs and employees), a label Disney was never able to shake unto this day. And yet he was awarded the 1955 B'Nai Brith Man of the Year. Go figure.
Disney was no saint in that regard (he often referred to the Sherman Brothers as "my two Jew songwriters") but he was no more prejudiced then any other man in his position during the era. And as far as Disney "commanding" his studio -- no argument there, but the quality, technical innovations, emphasis on storytelling and affective "gags", and so forth were second-to-none during their "golden" era (all the way from the early black-and-whites through "Dumbo").
No animation studio, before or since, has reached the technical and creative brilliance of "Fantasia", nor would they even attempt it. I still find it remarkable that the movie is almost 70 years old.
My favorite tactic of the organizers was to throw around charges of "antisemitism" at Disney in order to rally their troops and garner sympathy (many Disney employees were Jewish, not to mention rival studio execs and employees), a label Disney was never able to shake unto this day. And yet he was awarded the 1955 B'Nai Brith Man of the Year. Go figure.
Disney was no saint in that regard (he often referred to the Sherman Brothers as "my two Jew songwriters") but he was no more prejudiced then any other man in his position during the era. And as far as Disney "commanding" his studio -- no argument there, but the quality, technical innovations, emphasis on storytelling and affective "gags", and so forth were second-to-none during their "golden" era (all the way from the early black-and-whites through "Dumbo").
No animation studio, before or since, has reached the technical and creative brilliance of "Fantasia", nor would they even attempt it. I still find it remarkable that the movie is almost 70 years old.
06-19-09, 11:26 AM
#8
06-19-09, 11:39 AM
#9
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
After the strike, Disney Studios was never the same again. World War II already took a huge chunk out of their animation output and quality, and the strike was THE most mitigating factor that pushed Walt into doing more live action films, true nature films, shorts, and eventually television and the theme parks.
My favorite tactic of the organizers was to throw around charges of "antisemitism" at Disney in order to rally their troops and garner sympathy (many Disney employees were Jewish, not to mention rival studio execs and employees), a label Disney was never able to shake unto this day. And yet he was awarded the 1955 B'Nai Brith Man of the Year. Go figure.
Disney was no saint in that regard (he often referred to the Sherman Brothers as "my two Jew songwriters") but he was no more prejudiced then any other man in his position during the era. And as far as Disney "commanding" his studio -- no argument there, but the quality, technical innovations, emphasis on storytelling and affective "gags", and so forth were second-to-none during their "golden" era (all the way from the early black-and-whites through "Dumbo").
No animation studio, before or since, has reached the technical and creative brilliance of "Fantasia", nor would they even attempt it. I still find it remarkable that the movie is almost 70 years old.
My favorite tactic of the organizers was to throw around charges of "antisemitism" at Disney in order to rally their troops and garner sympathy (many Disney employees were Jewish, not to mention rival studio execs and employees), a label Disney was never able to shake unto this day. And yet he was awarded the 1955 B'Nai Brith Man of the Year. Go figure.
Disney was no saint in that regard (he often referred to the Sherman Brothers as "my two Jew songwriters") but he was no more prejudiced then any other man in his position during the era. And as far as Disney "commanding" his studio -- no argument there, but the quality, technical innovations, emphasis on storytelling and affective "gags", and so forth were second-to-none during their "golden" era (all the way from the early black-and-whites through "Dumbo").
No animation studio, before or since, has reached the technical and creative brilliance of "Fantasia", nor would they even attempt it. I still find it remarkable that the movie is almost 70 years old.
Good points. Disney definitely peaked in the late '30s-to-early '40s. I consider BAMBI his best, followed by SNOW WHITE, PINOCCHIO, FANTASIA and DUMBO. Nothing in the postwar years even comes close.
06-19-09, 12:42 PM
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DVD Talk Legend
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
I had little patience for "Fantasia" growing up. As a kid, I loved "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" but the rest of the movie put me to sleep. Even in college, where watching "Fantasia" while "under the influence" was something of a rage, I still didn't get it. I was mostly bored.
Then about 12 years ago or so, after getting more and more into classic animation, I gave Fantasia another whirl, and I was riveted. The movie is such a brilliant piece of imagination and artistry, a hand-crafted labor of love that combines 1940s state-of-the-art filmmaking with afffectionate personal and evocative flairs.
It was also a flop at first (although eventually very profitable) and received mixed critical reviews. No one knew quite what to make of it. Too highbrow for the masses, too lowbrow for the intelligentsia. Yet many view it as the pinnacle of Walt's creative drive and vision. Personally, I am blown away by the movie and easily put it in my Top 20 movies of all time, definitely in the Top 15 and maybe even Top 10. It's a film that at first is easier to appreciate than "love", but over time I've grown to love it equally.
Although it's not my favorite Disney animated film; that's still "Dumbo". I *sniff* love that Baby Elephant... and anyone who isn't moved to tears during the "Baby Mine" sequence is worse than Pol Pot.
Then about 12 years ago or so, after getting more and more into classic animation, I gave Fantasia another whirl, and I was riveted. The movie is such a brilliant piece of imagination and artistry, a hand-crafted labor of love that combines 1940s state-of-the-art filmmaking with afffectionate personal and evocative flairs.
It was also a flop at first (although eventually very profitable) and received mixed critical reviews. No one knew quite what to make of it. Too highbrow for the masses, too lowbrow for the intelligentsia. Yet many view it as the pinnacle of Walt's creative drive and vision. Personally, I am blown away by the movie and easily put it in my Top 20 movies of all time, definitely in the Top 15 and maybe even Top 10. It's a film that at first is easier to appreciate than "love", but over time I've grown to love it equally.
Although it's not my favorite Disney animated film; that's still "Dumbo". I *sniff* love that Baby Elephant... and anyone who isn't moved to tears during the "Baby Mine" sequence is worse than Pol Pot.
06-19-09, 01:04 PM
#13
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
I had little patience for "Fantasia" growing up. As a kid, I loved "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" but the rest of the movie put me to sleep. Even in college, where watching "Fantasia" while "under the influence" was something of a rage, I still didn't get it. I was mostly bored.
Then about 12 years ago or so, after getting more and more into classic animation, I gave Fantasia another whirl, and I was riveted. The movie is such a brilliant piece of imagination and artistry, a hand-crafted labor of love that combines 1940s state-of-the-art filmmaking with afffectionate personal and evocative flairs.
It's a film that at first is easier to appreciate than "love", but over time I've grown to love it equally.
Then about 12 years ago or so, after getting more and more into classic animation, I gave Fantasia another whirl, and I was riveted. The movie is such a brilliant piece of imagination and artistry, a hand-crafted labor of love that combines 1940s state-of-the-art filmmaking with afffectionate personal and evocative flairs.
It's a film that at first is easier to appreciate than "love", but over time I've grown to love it equally.
06-19-09, 02:28 PM
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Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
However, I disagree about your statement that nothing in the postwar years even comes close. In second place for me so far (I'm still in the process of viewing them all) is LADY AND THE TRAMP. The animators absolutely nailed the early scenes with Lady as a puppy, as anyone who has owned a puppy will recognize. The film also tugs at the heart, as I felt genuinely sad for Lady as her owners begin to pay less attention to her as they prepare for the arrival of their baby. And the tears were getting ready to flow near the very end when it appears that one of the main characters has died. This scene is brilliantly, tenderly, and effectively done. I assume that it was a human voice actor who performs Scotty's wail, but it sure sounds like a real dog is genuinely mourning the loss of a friend.
Spoiler:
06-20-09, 01:44 AM
#15
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
BAMBI is also my very favorite as well, and I consider it to be a true motion picture masterpiece. It's absolutely timeless.
However, I disagree about your statement that nothing in the postwar years even comes close. In second place for me so far (I'm still in the process of viewing them all) is LADY AND THE TRAMP. The animators absolutely nailed the early scenes with Lady as a puppy, as anyone who has owned a puppy will recognize. The film also tugs at the heart, as I felt genuinely sad for Lady as her owners begin to pay less attention to her as they prepare for the arrival of their baby. And the tears were getting ready to flow near the very end when it appears that one of the main characters has died. This scene is brilliantly, tenderly, and effectively done. I assume that it was a human voice actor who performs Scotty's wail, but it sure sounds like a real dog is genuinely mourning the loss of a friend.
However, I disagree about your statement that nothing in the postwar years even comes close. In second place for me so far (I'm still in the process of viewing them all) is LADY AND THE TRAMP. The animators absolutely nailed the early scenes with Lady as a puppy, as anyone who has owned a puppy will recognize. The film also tugs at the heart, as I felt genuinely sad for Lady as her owners begin to pay less attention to her as they prepare for the arrival of their baby. And the tears were getting ready to flow near the very end when it appears that one of the main characters has died. This scene is brilliantly, tenderly, and effectively done. I assume that it was a human voice actor who performs Scotty's wail, but it sure sounds like a real dog is genuinely mourning the loss of a friend.
Spoiler:
I grew up on the era of The Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, Aladdin and The Lion King --an era of incredible output, certainly not an equivalent to the 'golden years' there's a peculiar charm of those classic movies that cannot ever be replicated. But I also believe that those movies released between 1989 through 1994 (minus The Rescuers Down Under, mind you) certainly deserve to be recognized in a conversation about the 'best' animated films.
06-20-09, 04:00 PM
#16
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
I'm sure some of these books are a good read. But to answer the op's question, I'm not sure why it matters what kind of person or employer he was considering he's been dead for almost 40 years.
06-20-09, 06:21 PM
#17
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
:
06-20-09, 10:51 PM
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Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
06-21-09, 08:25 AM
#21
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
Wah-? No mention of my favorite, Robin Hood?!?
Screw you guys!
Actually, it was nice to hear a shout-out to Bill Peet. He wrote my favorite children's book, the Whingdingdilly.
Screw you guys!
Actually, it was nice to hear a shout-out to Bill Peet. He wrote my favorite children's book, the Whingdingdilly.
06-21-09, 11:36 AM
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Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
LOL! Actually, I wrote up a separate post a few weeks back on how much I enjoyed Robin Hood. I'm currently making my way, more or less in chronological order, through all of the Disney animated releases. And in terms of just pure fun, Robin Hood ranks among the very top for me. I'm surprised it doesn't get more praise. This one has more replay value for me than almost any other that I've seen so far. It's just fun and entertaining from start to finish.
So far, the only ones that I've been truly disappointed in were Alice in Wonderland and Jungle Book. The latter was especially disappointing as it tends to receive a decent amount of praise. But I thought it was very weak, and Robin Hood easily trumps it.
So far, the only ones that I've been truly disappointed in were Alice in Wonderland and Jungle Book. The latter was especially disappointing as it tends to receive a decent amount of praise. But I thought it was very weak, and Robin Hood easily trumps it.
06-22-09, 03:05 AM
#23
DVD Talk Special Edition
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
Here's a very honest bio, great reading: http://www.***********/library/bio/b...s/walt-disney/
Excerpt:
Excerpt:
Walt was not an easy man to work for. At night, he would go through employee desks to check their work and count the number of pens. It was studio policy not to pay animators for the time they spent not drawing. They had to punch out whenever they got up to use the bathroom, get a drink of water, or even sharpen a pencil. If that weren't enough, the animators who produced the cartoons never received screen credit. The only name audiences ever saw was Walt Disney's, even though he hadn't so much as picked up a sketchbook since 1930.
06-22-09, 05:03 AM
#24
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
Here's a very honest bio, great reading: http://www.***********/library/bio/b...s/walt-disney/
Excerpt:
Excerpt:
Anyway, just for the record, the animators do get credit on the Disney features. I'm not sure about the shorts, I'll have to pop a disc in and check. They got credit on other studios' cartoon shorts, e.g. MGM and WB.
06-22-09, 05:52 AM
#25
DVD Talk Godfather
Re: Working for Walt Disney (was he a tyrant?)
LOL! Actually, I wrote up a separate post a few weeks back on how much I enjoyed Robin Hood. I'm currently making my way, more or less in chronological order, through all of the Disney animated releases. And in terms of just pure fun, Robin Hood ranks among the very top for me. I'm surprised it doesn't get more praise. This one has more replay value for me than almost any other that I've seen so far. It's just fun and entertaining from start to finish.
So far, the only ones that I've been truly disappointed in were Alice in Wonderland and Jungle Book. The latter was especially disappointing as it tends to receive a decent amount of praise. But I thought it was very weak, and Robin Hood easily trumps it.
So far, the only ones that I've been truly disappointed in were Alice in Wonderland and Jungle Book. The latter was especially disappointing as it tends to receive a decent amount of praise. But I thought it was very weak, and Robin Hood easily trumps it.
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