Terminator Salvation (McG, 2009) — The Reviews Thread

[N2DVD]

I just got in from a sneak of “Terminator Salvation”, hosted by a local television station and Warner Brothers.The crowd in attendance was appreciative of the early look at the latest entry in the Terminator saga.

I love James Cameron’s two Arnold-driven films. My son, Kyle, was born in 1984 (though his mother claims he’s named after a great grandfather of hers..). I saw T2 at least 5 times in the theater when it first came out, and rewatched both Terminator movies this past weekend in anticipation. I thought T3 was borderline silly, although I liked the action, and it did put John Conner and Kate in a safe spot as the bombs dropped on Judgment Day. I have to say I did enjoy Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles as well.

I will be honest and say, I also like some of McG’s work. The two Charlie’s Angels movies are guilty pleasures. I appreciate that he has some influence on the series “Chuck”. I’ve been very interested in how he would handle the first full length film to deal with the future war.

Some mild spoilers may follow:

The plot in a nutshell – It’s 2018 and John Conner is a rising maverick in the Resistance. In addition to figuring out ways to disrupt Skynet’s communications with its mechanical army, he’s also working hard to locate Kyle Reese, who is current one of two members of the “LA branch” of the Resistance. The Resistance itself is a loosely organized multinational force with threadbare but effective resources – subs, planes, helicopters, and other weapons. We first see John on a mission to destroy a Skynet stronghold (the Very Large Array, by the looks of things). John and his team discover that Skynet is working on a game-changing terminator just before the stronghold is wiped out, along with the team.

Entering the picture is Marcus Wright, an death-row inmate who, in 2003, agreed to turn his body over to Cyberdyne for research following his death. Not knowing what has ensued after his execution, he wanders confused until he runs into a teenage Kyle Reese and a young mute girl named Star. He agrees to help them connect with John Conner, who is broadcasting encouragement and tips on how to take down the very ugly T-600s.

Through a series of action sequences, a couple that riff on Road Warrior, Kyle and Star are captured by Skynet, Marcus is captured by John, and man and machine must work out a rescue before Skynet’s San Francisco facility is blown off the map.

What worked:
The action and effects. Wow, just wow. Between the variety of terminators shown – the hydr-eels, the moto-terminators (very cool), the large terminator gathering human prisoners, the hunter-killers, and the T-600s and T-800s – and the large scale action scenes, that stuff just hit all the right notes for me. And when you-know-who shows up for the final fight, the audience went nuts!

The nods to the earlier films. Kate Conner is there. Seeing “Cyberdyne” on the release form Marcus signs at the beginning of the film. An explanation of the scars older John has on his face at the beginning of T2. Nice call-backs.

Danny Elfman’s score, and the sound of the film, in general.

What was not so good
The characters could definitely have been developed more. The only ones that we really knew a lot about were John and Kyle, although it was nice to see why Kyle would idolize John so much. The other characters, especially the female soldier Blair, could have used a little more backstory.

The ending of the film. Early reviews have touched on this and I have to agree. Even my friend commented about how, with the injury John suffers during the final fight, no way he could last so long plus, please, those battlefield conditions for the kind of medical resolution they fell back on. It could have been staged a bit better.

All in all, though, I had a great time with the movie, and am looking forward to seeing where they go with the series.

[RocShemp]

So basically it was great on action but not too hot in the character development/plot area. Meh, I'll still see it but be sure to keep my expectations in check.

Thanks for the review, N2DVD.

[scott1598]

should be seeing it.

[N2DVD]

I already posted my review in an earlier thread here

[Mountain Biker]

What worked:
The action and effects. Wow, just wow. Between the variety of terminators shown – the hydr-eels, the moto-terminators (very cool), the large terminator gathering human prisoners, the hunter-killers, and the T-600s and T-800s – and the large scale action scenes, that stuff just hit all the right notes for me. And when you-know-who shows up for the final fight, the audience went nuts!

Now that's what I like to hear - can't wait to see it this weekend!

[emachine]

I've heard the tone of the film is far more in line with the darker tone of brilliant original film, so that gives me high hopes for it despite some pretty negative reviews thus far.

[Labor]

Originally Posted by emachine

I've heard the tone of the film is far more in line with the darker tone of brilliant original film, so that gives me high hopes for it despite some pretty negative reviews thus far.

Quite a bit of the negative reviews seem to hold the movies dark tone against it, which seems utterly ridiculous.

[woofman]

I completely agree with the OP's review. Effects were incredible, some amazing action sequences. Some of the character development, dialogue, and ending, meh. Very good effort.

[lisadoris]

Saw it last night... Yes 4 has a much darker tone which was good. The action sequences were very well done and I could see and hear it all from the 3rd row of the theater!

I agree that the ending was meh. I understand that they had to leave the door open for T5 & 6 but it seemed a bit too convenient. At this point in the franchise I'm done expecting character development so I wasn't disappointed on that front but I understand that complaint.

[mcnabb]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

So basically it was great on action but not too hot in the character development/plot area.

I figured McG would go down this route, and that is why I never expected much from this movie. Don't these directors understand that these movies that are heavy on action/CGI don't pass the test of time! You need good character development, and all the classics from this genre were able to achieve this. Jeez, I hate that there is still an audience out there who just wants to be wowed by explosions and constant action!

[riotinmyskull]

from harry knowles' twitter:

TERMINATOR SALVATION review to hit Thursday night: last line: Fuck this movie.

[DonnachaOne]

Terminator Salvation is insultingly bad.
It's loud, stupid and boring, then defies expectation by getting even worse. No direction or point to any of it, and the story - what there is of it - is just there as an excuse to have bit action setpieces that rip off better, or at least more popular, films (including one that served to remind me of The Mummy Returns, and was so bad it made me wish I was watching... The Mummy Returns). The semblance of a story is that Kyle Reese is a very-low-tier freedom fighter and John Conner has to find him if he ever wants to send him back in time to father the future; Marcus Wright, a chap who seems to have been asleep through the whole Judgment Day thing, becomes Kyle's guardian for no apparent reason. We recognize why things are supposed to be happening, we just don't have anything connected to anything else to create any sense of story progression, at least not in any way that prompted me to care about what was happening in any way. To paraphrase a much better film : "there's no plot but what we make for ourselves".

There are visual and audio references aplenty to the first couple of Terminator films, but they're all obvious, unnecessary and stupid, as if someone hurriedly wrote them in after watching the films for the second time. To wit: John Conner distracts a motorcycle robot with a stereo playing "You Could Be Mine".

It is a film with well-done visuals but no style, bits of great sound design but mostly noise, and wouldn't know what to do or where to stop if it wasn't for the fact that its two hours are up. At its best, it's like watching someone else getting frustrated playing a well-rendered videogame. At its worst it is just dull.

People, don't watch it. I can't think of any redeeming qualities that would ever warrant you spending any of your money to see it. It is a film that could only be enjoyed by sad, depressing idiots, and if you like Terminator Salvation on its own merits, we can't be friends. And you probably shouldn't breed.

I went in with an open mind and left with a tarnished soul. I felt horrible for making myself watch the whole stupid, stupid thing; it's unmitigated shit and you should stay far, far away. Whatever you got from the trailers, whatever you enjoyed - just let that play over in your mind's eye for a bit and leave it at that.

[Labor]

Originally Posted by riotinmyskull

from harry knowles' twitter:

Sounds like a ringing endoresment to me, considering who that is coming from.

[arminius]

Originally Posted by DonnachaOne

Terminator Salvation is insultingly bad.
It's loud, stupid and boring, then defies expectation by getting even worse. No direction or point to any of it, and the story - what there is of it - is just there as an excuse to have bit action setpieces that rip off better, or at least more popular, films (including one that served to remind me of The Mummy Returns, and was so bad it made me wish I was watching... The Mummy Returns). The semblance of a story is that Kyle Reese is a very-low-tier freedom fighter and John Conner has to find him if he ever wants to send him back in time to father the future; Marcus Wright, a chap who seems to have been asleep through the whole Judgment Day thing, becomes Kyle's guardian for no apparent reason. We recognize why things are supposed to be happening, we just don't have anything connected to anything else to create any sense of story progression, at least not in any way that prompted me to care about what was happening in any way. To paraphrase a much better film : "there's no plot but what we make for ourselves".

There are visual and audio references aplenty to the first couple of Terminator films, but they're all obvious, unnecessary and stupid, as if someone hurriedly wrote them in after watching the films for the second time. To wit: John Conner distracts a motorcycle robot with a stereo playing "You Could Be Mine".

It is a film with well-done visuals but no style, bits of great sound design but mostly noise, and wouldn't know what to do or where to stop if it wasn't for the fact that its two hours are up. At its best, it's like watching someone else getting frustrated playing a well-rendered videogame. At its worst it is just dull.

People, don't watch it. I can't think of any redeeming qualities that would ever warrant you spending any of your money to see it. It is a film that could only be enjoyed by sad, depressing idiots, and if you like Terminator Salvation on its own merits, we can't be friends. And you probably shouldn't breed.

I went in with an open mind and left with a tarnished soul. I felt horrible for making myself watch the whole stupid, stupid thing; it's unmitigated shit and you should stay far, far away. Whatever you got from the trailers, whatever you enjoyed - just let that play over in your mind's eye for a bit and leave it at that.

::

[chris_sc77]

Looks like my instincts were correct yet again.
You can thank my rating and length detector once more.
Its a sad day when Angels and Demons and WOlverine have higher scores than This at Rotten Tomatoes.

[scott1598]

Originally Posted by chris_sc77

Looks like my instincts were correct yet again.
You can thank my rating and length detector once more.
Its a sad day when Angels and Demons and WOlverine have higher scores than This at Rotten Tomatoes.

are these the same instincts that predicted $55 mil open for "Star Trek" and final take of $110 or so?

[chris_sc77]

Originally Posted by scott1598

are these the same instincts that predicted $55 mil open for "Star Trek" and final take of $110 or so?

No they were the ones that predicted the final gross of Wolverine though:
Summer 2009 Box Office Predictions & DIscussion Thread(What will win?What Will bomb?)

[RocShemp]

So if word-of-mouth and reviews continue to be this poor, not only will they need to reinegrate the topless scene but they'll need a full video recording of the Christian Bale rant to boost BD/DVD sales.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by chris_sc77

Looks like my instincts were correct yet again.
You can thank my rating and length detector once more.
Its a sad day when Angels and Demons and WOlverine have higher scores than This at Rotten Tomatoes.

Actually you are wrong. Wolverine has 37% while Terminator (as of this second) has 38%. Angels and Demons also has 38%. It may get better, it may get worse, so only more reviews as this gets to release will show us.

Fact remains, your logic is horribly bad. So, say Terminator was longer. It's still the same script, but they'd have to add a bit more story. How is it going to make the movie any better? If it truly is that bad, it will only make an excruciatingly bad movie that much worse and longer. Time won't fix any issues with the script. So, the longer a movie is has absolutely no correlation on how good it will be. The fact that you continue to perpetuate this notion only makes you foolish and continues to make you the laughing stock of this forum.

[chris_sc77]

Well when I looked at RT earlier Terminator was down to 35%.
And also Im not saying adding another 20 minutes would make the movie better I am just saying that from just about 95% of other big films like this the ones over 2 hours just about always indicate whether one has a chance of being good or not.
Also other indicators are:
*A PG-13 rated sequel to a film franchise that has previously been set in an R-rated world
*A sequel shorter than the previous installment

I thought this looked good but the reviews are fucking horrendous.
I thought it would be at least around 60% positive reviews but down in the 30's is just shocking. Add to it that many of the reviews are absolutely scathing and this is no longer on my list of things to do tomorrow night.

[Apple Gooncha]

With only 7 reviews in so far, it's only 3 points behind the final Metacritic score for Watchmen, and I loved Watchmen, so I'm not too concerned about this. I don't expect it to be a mindblowing film, but I do expect it to be good, and a dark tone is in no way a bad thing to me.

[Deftones]

Originally Posted by chris_sc77

Well when I looked at RT earlier Terminator was down to 35%.
And also Im not saying adding another 20 minutes would make the movie better I am just saying that from just about 95% of other big films like this the ones over 2 hours just about always indicate whether one has a chance of being good or not.
Also other indicators are:
*A PG-13 rated sequel to a film franchise that has previously been set in an R-rated world
*A sequel shorter than the previous installment

I thought this looked good but the reviews are fucking horrendous.
I thought it would be at least around 60% positive reviews but down in the 30's is just shocking. Add to it that many of the reviews are absolutely scathing and this is no longer on my list of things to do tomorrow night.

talk about jumping the gun slightly. angels and demons had 203 reviews while wolverine had 225. terminator has had a total of 26 reviews posted. that's basically a tenth of the reviews that either of the other two movies have had. let's wait until it's released so we can truly start making comparisons. sheesh.

[chris_sc77]

Originally Posted by riotinmyskull

from harry knowles' twitter:

his review is now up.
I dont think he likes it much:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41140
"I hate the film. Pure and simple. I loathe it. I hated it so much I didn’t want to see my friend’s faces afterwards. I just wanted to go home and vent. I really really hate this film. I hate how much effort so many great artists and technicians put into a film that’s this fucking bad. Ultimately its just shit moving, like a sewer pipe. I hate that there isn’t a sustained scene or sequence that I love as much as the best moment from TERMINATOR 3. I hate that when I left the theater I felt empty and let down. That I felt like writing a review like this instead of fucking dry humping a great TERMINATOR movie.

This feels like ALIEN RESURRECTION to me. Something that kills something wonderful for me. I’m no longer interested in Terminator. McG terminated my enthusiasm. I love the first two films. At least I’ll always have that. Fuck this movie. "

[SkipKassidy]

Having attended a screening of Terminator Salvation on Monday, I think people are deluding themselves if they think Salvation can measure up to The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgment Day.

It's just not possible.

The fact that Bale told McG to fuck off when he flipped through the script is an indicator. Later, Bale had Jonathan Nolan touch it up before he even agreed to play the role of John Connor (originally he was offered the role of Marcus Wright).

The problem is the story and character development. Yes the action is good, but without a good story what's the point. (It's the same reason I think The Rock is Michael Bay's best film.)

While the first three Terminator movies had the simple seek-and-destroy mentality - the heroes being chased by a Terminator - Salvation doesn't have that until late into the film.

The filmmakers knew that they couldn't keep doing the same time travel to present day, so an entire movie post Judgment Day is a big endeavor. The production design is top-notch, but again there's the problems with the story.

So style with little substance makes it hard to enjoy. Still, it may play better on repeated viewings.

[SkipKassidy]

Roger Ebert's review:
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...IEWS/905199991