Solid Snake

I think TDK really stamped the idea of villains coming up cuz of Batman. I'd assume it's going to be a continuing theme in order to make some sense as to why to do pop up.

Going w/ the as "real" as it can get (please....let's not argue that aspect) vibe...guess that Kyle will be a burglar? One looking for fun and financial wealth via her activities, kind of like the comics possibly. Oddly enough her current costume would be a good adaptation to live action. Not too flamboyant looking but enough to tell ya she's Catwoman.

Patman

I drew this just on a lark to see how Hathaway would look in a somewhat current incarnation of the Catwoman suit:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/patcave/5491371216/

Solid Snake

yeah, I've never really been a fan of any of her costume designs, they're not bad but very few are to my liking. The current one is as real as it could get and still be the character.

RocShemp

No. Rachel was created as a result of Warner Bros. complaining there was no love interest in BB. She was originally intended to be Harvey Dent. If they always intended for Bruce to have a love interest that dies, they should have used Silver St. Cloud.

Rachel was just a tacked on character and was sorely underwritten as a result. Oddly enough, after recently watching BB and TDK back-to-back, I realized that Rachel is bnetter written in BB than in TDK. In BB she's another "conscience" for Bruce (much like Alfred) who pushes him to look beyond his own pain and see the bigger picture (she even has a whole speech to that effect). Although she's initially disappointed in him due to his playboy antics, she comes around when she realizes it was all an act.

In TDK, she's really just shoehorned as someone for both Bruce and Harvey to pine after (and as a catalyst for Harvey to go off the deep end). She's also a bit of a bitch in TDK. At this point she knows Bruce is faking being an ass but she constantly treats him as if he's genuinely an ass. Just look at how she treats him during the find raiser he holds for Harvey (where she accuses him of genuinely mocking Dent).

Then there's that stupid letter she leaves with Alfred where she claims Bruce is incapable of giving up being Batman. That makes no damned sense since all throughout the movie he's been very open about how he's working towards leaving Gotham in Harvey Dent's hands. I get her telling him that she'd rather be with Harvey thanh with Bruce but claiming that it's because Bruce can't bring himself to stop being Batman is a total bitch move.

TheMovieman

That's true but once she was created Nolan knew her purpose in TDK since I believe they had at least an outline done for the trilogy. How or if Ledger's death changed TDKR we'll never know of course.

Solid Snake

Yeah...her purpose, when Nolan was allowed to do w/ her what he wanted, was much better formed in TDK than BB. THOUGH oddly enough...I was also watching BB today..and did notice that she's a bit more of "value" in BB than TDK. BUT...I like her character's involvement more in TDK.

Dr. DVD

^ I agree, though Maggie G. is clearly a better actress than Holmes. However, upon recently re-watching BB, she doesn't taint the movie near as much as many would lead you to believe.

The only problem I really have with the two is having a different actress play the character in them. The death of her character just seems to lack the emotional punch it should have because it's a different actress in the role. If they were to find a way to seamlessly impose Maggie G in BB, I feel it would flow a bit better.

TheMovieman

Funny enough, a couple years after TDK's release, I actually prefer BB overall. I think that technically speaking (as well as the acting), TDK is the better film but BB seems to have better replay value.

Solid Snake

I like TDK more cuz it has more of what I want....

BUT.....BB actually works better as a narrative. Also...damn you, Liam Neeson. Damn you for being so cool.

Michael Corvin

The Jason Bourne on crack camera work during the fight scenes holds BB back even more than Holmes does.

gmanca

Yup, the action camera work in both films, but especially Batman Begins leaves much to be desired. He did improve it a bit in TDK but he slowed down the actual fighting and had fewer quick cuts as opposed to just zooming out, although that was just for the Hong Kong scene; the unfinished highrise portion was as bad as the end of Begins.

riotinmyskull

juno temple is confirmed

loved her in CRACKS and KABOOM and her small role in GREENBERG

RocShemp

I doubt “a street-smart Gotham girl” equals Robin. It's probably SIlver St. Cloud or Vicky Vale. Heck, it could just be a made up character that borrows some elements from the two. Kinda how Anna Ramirez was inspired by Renee Montoya (but went down a darker path than her comic book inspiration).

I found the highrise sequence way easy to follow. It was shot pretty much the same way as the carpark fight. Except Batman wasn't acting like it was his first runthough with the coreagraphy in the highrise fights. Although I guess that during the carpark fight they were trying to sell the fact that the old costume was too cumbersome (not that it seemed to bother him one bit in BB).

gmanca

When you say high-rise scene, are you talking about the bit in Hong Kong? I had to watch the Cell Phone Sonar scene a few times before I fully understood what was going on, not just generally.

RocShemp

No. I was talking about the scene in the Pruitt (?) Building with the hostages. Though the Hong Kong scene was easy to follow as well. My only irk was that Batman was throwing too many super punches. It was almost as stupid as his gunbarrel-bending/can-opener aparatus from the carpark fight.

Paul_SD

I'm sure Selina will be used in the narrative as more of an ally than an adversary- and certainly not the primary adversary. The character, despite being a criminal, will likely be designed to elicit audience sympathy by using her skill to defend of extract retribution for an injustice done to her friend and that's probably how she initially collides with Batman- I would guess. They both go gunning for the same bad guy.

And if you are going to engage in a fight with a guy wearing a cape and bulky, move restricting body armour- wouldn't it make a lot of sense to have one or two guys distract him while the other guy grabs his cape from behind and starts swinging him around? The actual logistics of moving quickly in a cape and body armor are probably why Nolan shot the first fight in a more expressive and less literal way.

If an un-deputized vigilante using heavy ordinance in the city limits doesn't draw the attention of State And Federal authorities, then I doubt a few more dead bodies would. And if the only law enforcement is local GCPD, well we already know how lazy, corrupt, and monumentally inept they are. Batman initially outfoxed an overhead police helicopter by turning off his headlights and going off road. That's akin to me closing my eyes so that you can't see me. If a police helicopter can't follow a tank without running lights or plot it's trajectory when it bust through barriers and goes into the woods- they can't be much good for anything. The cops are world class incompetents- that's as much as the film needs to address obviously.

TheMovieman

Yes but it's no excuse for "a few more dead bodies" not to be explained which, during Nolan's text commentary for TDK, said it would be addressed.

I do agree that his outrunning the cops in BB by turning off the lights was dumb and still makes no sense today.

RocShemp

About the bodies, it was said by Gordon that there were five dead and two of them were cops. While I rewatched both films, I noticed we see Dent assault five people after the Joker releases him.

First he shoots Wuertz. Then he grabs one of Maroni's bodyguards and takes him offscreen. So he may have snapped his neck since we see him grab him rather than hitting him (in the chiche'd judo chop move many films usually employ). Then he shoots the driver, which also results in Maroni's apparent death. Then he tells Ana Ramirez that she'll "live to fight another day" just before he clocks her in the face and the scene cuts. Who's to say a very one-sided fight didn't take place just after the cut happened?

TheMovieman

Then that'd be weak since everything else was shown and especially for a character we saw throughout the movie, and a cop no less. They didn't even imply it.

RocShemp

Didn't say it was perfect. Just that the numbers add up. Also, the hard cut happens almost the moment he clocks her. So we never saw the end of that scene.

I do recall that Nolan was asked to tighten the film up by 10 or 18 minutes (I forget which) so perhaps a clearer explanation as to the deaths is what was cut.

Anyhoo, I'm still wondering what happened to the second clown that got out of the 18-wheeler (after it flipped) with the Joker. One was zapped by the Batman's cowl but the other just vanished. I thought maybe Gordon knocked him out offscreen but the geography of where the second clown is last seen and where Gordon pops up doesn't jive with that idea.

TheMovieman

You know, now that you brought it up, I do wonder if Ramirez was killed but it'll be revealed it wasn't by Harvey but perhaps someone else we'll be introduced to in TDKR (Joseph Gordon Levitt's character perhaps?). Who knows, just throwing that out there.

fumanstan

I think it's funny how people are still hung up on that death count thing

TheMovieman

IDK, it's just something that stuck out at the end and the fact Nolan himself said it would be addressed in the next one... What else is there to talk about? The whole casting of Juno Temple means very little to most (and is probably a smaller role anyway), they don't start shooting for another month and there's been nothing coming out about who exactly JGL will be playing, so why not?

RocShemp

Since this is to be the last of Nolan's trilogy, do you think he'll finally address the nagging question left in BB: who took out Falcone's driver while Batman was at the docks?

All kidding aside, the editing in that sequence makes no sense. Falcone is in his car with Flass when Batman starts taking out his goons one by one. Flass steps out of the car and then quickly tell Falcone that "there's aproblem here. You better bail." Once Batman begins to take on all the remaining thugs at once, Falcone steps out of his car and sees Batman kicking ass. Whilst Batman is still fighting, Falcone returns to find his driver knocked out. The Batman finishes his fight and goes after Falcone.

So, did the LOS take out Falcone's driver offscreen so Batman could catch him and thus eliminate the middle man? If so, wouldn't have it made more sense to simply kill Falcone then and there? Or did Flass figure to screw over his mobster boss for whatever reason? Which again begs the question as to why he wouldn't simply kill Falcone?

majorjoe23

Who is the fifth replicant? Is it Batman?