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The Hobbit

Old 07-18-11, 10:02 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Continuity between the Hobbit and LOTR isn't particularly solid anyway. I am no Tolkien expert, but he retconned the Hobbit years after its publication to fit better with the LOTR story, but there are still plenty of issues that don't quite "gel" as well as they should. The films may actually "improve" on the source material by addressing these issues.

Legolas, IIRC, is from Mirkwood, which Bilbo's party travels through. Most of the LOTRO characters were, in fact, alive during the events of the Hobbit, and the Istari and Elves would look the same since they don't really age.
Old 07-18-11, 10:14 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Hopefully this will mean the animated version of The Hobbit will be released on Blu-ray at some point to tie in. The DVD is fine, I'd just like them to correct the issue with the missing sound effects, sigh...
Old 07-18-11, 10:19 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
Hopefully this will mean the animated version of The Hobbit will be released on Blu-ray at some point to tie in. The DVD is fine, I'd just like them to correct the issue with the missing sound effects, sigh...
Yeah, I've always been fond of this one, though I haven't seen it in years. Somebody put it on youtube, not sure if it's still there. ..
Old 07-18-11, 10:47 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by whoopdido
I don't think Aragorn is in this. Is he? In any event, they were not in the book, although they were still present in the Middle Earth universe at the time the events in The Hobbit took place and most likely were at least aware of what was happening.

Unless I'm mistaken, the only characters that were in both books were Gandalf, Bilbo and to some extent Sauron. It's been so long since I read the Hobbit that I can't quite remember. I'm not sure if Elrond, Galadriel and the other elves are in both.
I swear I've read somewhere (credible) that Aragorn will at least have a cameo in these films.
Old 07-18-11, 09:51 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by Osiris3657
Does that mean Legolas, Aragorn, and all the other elves/men they are bringing back for these adaptations were not in the book?
Pretty much.

The only characters that appeared in both Hobbit and LOTR are Bilbo, Gandalf, Gollum, and Elrond. The fathers of Legolas and Gimli appear in the Hobbit as well, as does Balin (saw his tomb in Moira in Fellowship of the Ring).

The thing is that Tolkien first wrote "The Hobbit" as sort of a children's story/fairy tale about Elves, Dwarves, a Wizard, a Dragon, and a little man (Hobbit) who came into possession of a magic ring that could make him turn invisible.

He later decided to write a sequel, which turned into the "Lord of the Rings" epic. He incorporated "The Hobbit" into its backstory, retconned that magic ring into THE ONE RING, and generally built the mythology up.

So even though characters like Aragorn, Arwen, Legolas, Galadriel, Saruman (and any other immortal or long-lived characters) didn't appear in "The Hobbit" novel, they still would have been around Middle Earth and it's not out of line for them to make appearances in the movies if we accept that book as backstory for the LOTR saga and not a standalone novel.

There is a passage in "The Hobbit" where Gandalf leaves to deal with a Necromancer. Tolkien later incorporated this into the Lord of the Rings as being the White Council battling with Sauron. It's generally accepted that this will be shown somewhere in The Hobbit, so this is where charactes like Galadriel, Celeborn, and Saruman will fit into the movie.
Old 07-18-11, 10:36 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Will Christopher Lee be in The Hobbit too? I honestly wouldn't mind if many of the Lord of the Rings characters show up for the reason you said--the Hobbit is simply a prequel to the Lord of the Rings so it's ok in my book to incorporate those characters, especially since all of them were alive during the events of The Hobbit and all lived in and around the areas in which it takes place.

Plus somehow they have to turn a children's story into a two part, 5 hour long movie so there has to be a lot of filler. Go ahead and show me some cool stuff from the Middle Earth universe that wasn't necessarily in the original novel. If it's going to be bloated, at least give me something cool. Throw in parts of the Silmarillion if need be--just give us something good.
Old 07-18-11, 11:00 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Rumor is Lee filmed his scene last week. I don't think they can use Simarillion parts. They don't have the rights.
Old 07-18-11, 11:23 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
Rumor is Lee filmed his scene last week. I don't think they can use Simarillion parts. They don't have the rights.
Ah, yeah you're right about that.
Old 07-19-11, 02:20 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
Rumor is Lee filmed his scene last week. I don't think they can use Simarillion parts. They don't have the rights.
Yeah, I think they're limited to what's in the Hobbit and LOTR, including the appendices. They can't use anything exclusive to other works like the Silmarillion because Christopher Tolkien is a colossal prick.
Old 07-19-11, 02:51 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
So even though characters like Aragorn, Arwen, Legolas, Galadriel, Saruman (and any other immortal or long-lived characters) didn't appear in "The Hobbit" novel, they still would have been around Middle Earth and it's not out of line for them to make appearances in the movies if we accept that book as backstory for the LOTR saga and not a standalone novel.
Any Immortals from LOTR could (and many will) appear in the films, looking much the same as they did in the LOTR films. But for long-lived races, it becomes much trickier, considering the 70+ years that elapsed between the two stories.

They could conceivably show a younger (but still fully grown) version of Gimli, given that he would have been in his 60s at the time of The Hobbit, not that much younger than Fili and Kili. Maybe a scene showing him wanting to go on the adventure, but being refused by his father.

But as for Aragorn, unless they plan on casting a child, or showing him in some kind of flash forward, he won't be appearing. He was only 10 years old at the time.
Old 07-19-11, 10:54 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by RoboDad
But as for Aragorn, unless they plan on casting a child, or showing him in some kind of flash forward, he won't be appearing. He was only 10 years old at the time.
Actually, if Aragorn was 87 at the time of The Two Towers (per his extended edition talk with Eowyn), that would make him around 27 at the time of The Hobbit.
Old 07-19-11, 11:16 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by aintnosin
Actually, if Aragorn was 87 at the time of The Two Towers (per his extended edition talk with Eowyn), that would make him around 27 at the time of The Hobbit.
How do you figure? The Hobbit took place in TA 2941, and the year the Fellowship set out from Rivendell was TA 3018 (and Aragorn was 87 at that time).

Do the math. 3018-2941 = 77. 87 - 77 = 10. And, of course, Aragorn's birth year is listed as 2931, which makes the math even easier .
Old 07-19-11, 11:24 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by RoboDad
How do you figure? The Hobbit took place in TA 2941, and the year the Fellowship set out from Rivendell was TA 3018 (and Aragorn was 87 at that time).

Do the math. 3018-2941 = 77. 87 - 77 = 10. And, of course, Aragorn's birth year is listed as 2931, which makes the math even easier .
Sorry, not enough of Tolkein nerd to keep the numbers in my head. Everything I've heard casually is that the Hobbit and LOTR were 60 years apart, not 77. And then there's this quote:

Originally Posted by Gandalf
For sixty years, the Ring lay quiet in Bilbo's keeping, prolonging his life, delaying old age. But no longer, Frodo. Evil is stirring in Mordor. The Ring has awoken. It's heard its Master's call.
If Bilbo had the ring for 60 years, then by the film's reckoning, the end of The Hobbit takes place 60 years before the beginning of FOTR. Maybe PJ is deviating slightly from Tolkein's timeline.

Last edited by aintnosin; 07-19-11 at 11:36 AM.
Old 07-19-11, 11:42 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by aintnosin
Sorry, not enough of Tolkein nerd to keep the numbers in my head. Everything I've heard casually is that the Hobbit and LOTR were 60 years apart, not 77. And then there's this quote:



If Bilbo had the ring for 60 years, then by the film's reckoning, the end of The Hobbit takes place 60 years before the beginning of FOTR. Maybe PJ is deviating slightly from Tolkein's timeline.
In the books, there's a gap of 17 years between when Bilbo gives the ring to Frodo and when Frodo sets off on his journey. Jackson got rid of that gap for the films.
Old 07-19-11, 11:58 AM
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Re: The Hobbit

Spoiled for being huge:

Spoiler:
Old 07-19-11, 12:10 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by majorjoe23
Rumor is Lee filmed his scene last week. I don't think they can use Simarillion parts. They don't have the rights.
Has that been confirmed? Because he recently injured his back while on the set of The Wicker Tree. His injury was so bad he had to leave the production (of which he was the lead). It's rumoured he may cameo but that's unconfirmed.
Old 07-19-11, 12:22 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by seamusmclean
In the books, there's a gap of 17 years between when Bilbo gives the ring to Frodo and when Frodo sets off on his journey. Jackson got rid of that gap for the films.
In other words, RoboDad and I are both right!
Old 07-19-11, 12:26 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by seamusmclean
In the books, there's a gap of 17 years between when Bilbo gives the ring to Frodo and when Frodo sets off on his journey. Jackson got rid of that gap for the films.
Well it sort of gets shown doesn't it? When Gandalf gives the ring to Frodo and then rides off he says to Frodo something like he has to more or less research something, but doesn't tell him what. He's then shown pouring over old documents trying to find out about the One Ring. In the movie it's assumed he rode off to the library and spent a couple hours doing research, but in the book it took him 17 years to discover everything.

So, if you only watched the movie, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that Gandalf did NOT spend 17 years away from the Shire and rather maybe spent a week or even say a month or Hell, even a year. So, as far as the movies are concerned, they could easily get away with there only being 60 years between The Hobbit and LOTR. That said, if technology could make Jeff Bridges 30 years younger for Tron I'm sure it would be possible with Viggo as well or just cast an actor with long hair in his mid-20's.
Old 07-19-11, 12:29 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by whoopdido
That said, if technology could make Jeff Bridges 30 years younger for Tron I'm sure it would be possible with Viggo as well or just cast an actor with long hair in his mid-20's.
I didn't find the younger "Clu Dude" to be very convincing in Tron. Viggo is still young enough to do the job with a change in hair cut and a bit of makeup.
Old 07-19-11, 12:35 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by RocShemp
Has that been confirmed? Because he recently injured his back while on the set of The Wicker Tree. His injury was so bad he had to leave the production (of which he was the lead). It's rumoured he may cameo but that's unconfirmed.
Nothing confirmed yet:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/07/...-hobbit-today/
Old 07-19-11, 01:10 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by aintnosin
I didn't find the younger "Clu Dude" to be very convincing in Tron. Viggo is still young enough to do the job with a change in hair cut and a bit of makeup.
I don't know. Assuming they filmed his part right now, he'd be 53. I mean he looks fine, but no way could he pass for 27. I don't know what kind of makeup could take off 30 years.
Old 07-19-11, 05:18 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by whoopdido
I don't know what kind of makeup could take off 30 years.
We all saw Benjamin Button...age isn't anything anymore. If Jackson wants Viggo, then Viggo will be 27 years old.
Old 07-19-11, 06:19 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by aintnosin
I didn't find the younger "Clu Dude" to be very convincing in Tron. Viggo is still young enough to do the job with a change in hair cut and a bit of makeup.
So you thought Clu was supposed to look convincing in what way? as a real person? I took it as he was intended to look like digital creation.
Old 07-19-11, 06:30 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by david12
We all saw Benjamin Button...age isn't anything anymore. If Jackson wants Viggo, then Viggo will be 27 years old.
Well I saw the first 30 minutes of Benjamin Button and then turned it off due to extreme boredom. I then decided to do something more interesting...sit in a chair and count to 10,000.
Old 07-19-11, 06:39 PM
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Re: The Hobbit

Originally Posted by whoopdido
I'm sure it would be possible with Viggo as well or just cast an actor with long hair in his mid-20's.
Stuart Townsend's time to shine!

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