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Old 07-08-06, 04:29 PM   #76
GeorgeP
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I too would be interested in this version on DVD-R.

I have not seen "Metropolis" since college. I always believed that there was a masterpiece of film accessible to today's audiences underneath all the questionable editorial decisions made in previous restorations.

Thank you, Mark, for this tremendous achievement!
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Old 09-04-06, 09:29 PM   #77
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Another review:

Dear Mark,

I am so impressed by the work you have accomplished in "Metropolis." This is truly the way the film was meant to be seen, as all the movement appears more fluid, human and believeable, instead of robotic and cold. Thank you for giving the world a truer form of the creators art.

Marc
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Nice to know my little project has some fans!
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Old 09-05-06, 04:16 AM   #78
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I'm interested to see it as well.
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Old 09-05-06, 10:09 AM   #79
Breakfast with Girls
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Mark, maybe you could prepare some animated GIFs of a memorable scene for comparison--the Kino disc against your version?
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Old 09-05-06, 11:30 AM   #80
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Don't have software for that, but I could put up a brief clip for comparison - I think that would be fair use, right?
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Old 09-05-06, 12:06 PM   #81
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I too would be interested in this version on DVD-R. This sounds extremely interesting.
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Old 09-05-06, 12:31 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marknyc
Don't have software for that, but I could put up a brief clip for comparison - I think that would be fair use, right?
Yes.
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Old 09-05-06, 12:37 PM   #83
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Trust me, you don't need a comparison clip (though it seems marknyc will be kind enough to offer one)--it's night and day, just extraordinary what he's done.
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Old 09-05-06, 07:50 PM   #84
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Clips

Okay, I put up a clip for comparison.

Here it is at sound speed:

Sound speed

And here is the same clip at (I think) camera speed:

Camera Speed

Let me know what you think!

Mark

(I uploaded sharper versions - click on the double boxes below the frame to watch them fullscreen.)

Last edited by marknyc; 09-06-06 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 09-05-06, 10:49 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marknyc
Okay, I put up a clip for comparison.

Here it is at sound speed:

Sound speed

And here is the same clip at (I think) camera speed:

Camera Speed

Let me know what you think!

Mark

(These youtube clips have some interlacing problems - not sure why.)
That looks absolutely amazing! It does feel like an entirely different film. Tremendous job there.
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Old 09-06-06, 12:30 AM   #86
naitram
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Wow, I really want to see the whole thing like that now.
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Old 09-06-06, 10:21 AM   #87
Richard Malloy
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I was watching MoC's release of "Sunrise" last weekend, marvelling over what a wonderful film it was. Noting the natural motion (perhaps sped up a tad?) I recalled all over again how ridiculous "Metropolis" looks in certain sections (the false Maria's sexy dance is particularly absurd). I don't even care to get into the debate over which is "right": the film is simply more compelling when the human beings up on the screen move in the way real human beings move, and not like some fast-motion Keystone Cops sequence.
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Old 09-06-06, 01:19 PM   #88
kitkat
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Very cool! Thanks for sharing it with us.
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Old 09-06-06, 01:49 PM   #89
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Richard, I completely agree. Frankly, when I started this project I didn't know there was a debate about the original projection speed. I assumed that silent films were shown at the speed they were shot, although I knew some scenes were deliberately undercranked.

I recall when I saw the restoration of "Napoleon" with a live orchestra, I was so bummed that it was shown at sound speed. I hated the "Keystone cops" quality, and that's what I wanted to remove from "Metropolis."

But I was really surprised that slowing the film down also improved all the performances! I knew that acting for the silent screen was stylized, but now I could see how much the faster film speed is responsible for making the performances seem so artificial.

It's great to finally watch this film with more natural acting.
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Old 09-06-06, 11:04 PM   #90
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Where did the clip go?

Metropolis is one of my favorite, if not, my favorite silent. I'm very interested in this project.
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Old 09-06-06, 11:11 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewAskewbian
Where did the clip go?
It's still there, I just put up a cleaner version.

Use the links in my earlier post, not the quote.
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Old 09-07-06, 09:05 PM   #92
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Somebody should contact Kino about this. It really is that damn good from just the clips alone. Very interested in getting a copy of this. Mark, AMAZING work!
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Old 10-07-06, 02:11 PM   #93
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Got the DVD from Mark a few weeks ago (thanks Mark!). I haven't done a full uninterrupted viewing, but here's some quick thoughts from my first look at it:

My first impressions were that it looked fantastic, and it really involved me in the story more, since it is more realistic running at natural speed.

Then, I put the Kino DVD in my other player, and played them both at the same time, switching back and forth between sources (I've got two DVD players hooked up to my projector). Now the improvements were even more noticeable. You mentioned how the actors' performances are so much better in the camera speed version; I agree wholeheartedly. The other thing I noticed was how much better the editing is in very brief shots. Now there is enough time to appreciate the shot, whereas in the Kino version it flashes by too quickly. Switching back and forth really emphasizes that the brief shots in the Kino version are definitely too quick.

I must congratulate Mark on what an impressive job he did with this project. Anyone who is interested in this film, and especially people who already appreciate it, really should check this out.

I'll post more thoughts after I give it a full viewing, I'm sure I'll have more to say about it.
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Old 11-14-06, 11:14 AM   #94
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I got this recently as well, and although I haven't had the time to watch the whole movie, what I saw was very impressive. I agree with what berserker said about how you become more involved in the story since it's moving at a normal pace.

Awesome job again, Mark. You've made a classic film more enjoyable and easier to watch!
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Old 11-15-06, 03:52 AM   #95
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How about putting it on a torrent?
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Old 11-15-06, 04:27 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
Um, wasn't there another thread where this guy got ripped apart?
KINO Metropolis at proper speed!

I missed this new thread first time out, and I was one of the naysayers. i would love to see a copy of the film as a whole, if you are still sending them out.
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Old 11-15-06, 04:28 AM   #97
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bump for a merge
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Old 02-28-07, 09:16 AM   #98
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I've yet to watch this version, but I did have time to sample it and the speed of the movement is very pleasing to watch. However, I read the DVD Beaver review of the Kino R1 DVD from which marknyc created his version, and it states the following:
Quote:
This appears to be a classic example of PAL-NTSC ghosting derived from improper conversion. The Kino - Region 1- NTSC edition uses the same PAL master from the German Transit-Universum (Friedrich Wilhelm Murnau Stiftung), BUT they did not pre-convert to NTSC for their standards' (Region 1) audience. I imagine it was done for monetary reasons as it was far less expensive than paying for the conversion. Unfortunately, the result is that those viewing the Kino edition DVD will see all the prevalent flaws that this common transference practice produces - 'ghosting' in motion sequences (see below), blurriness, artifacts and in this case some dis-colorization. I find the Kino has a blueish tinge to the more grey sequences. For purists, another huge difference is that the Kino have pre-translated the title cards from their original German into English. This is totally out-of-place or anyone respecting this films origins. The Eureka intertitles can be optionally subtitled.
Since a PAL master was used for the Kino DVD and the transfer was not speed corrected, each second of the R1 release does not actually contain 24 "original" frames but 25 (can somebody confirm this, and explain how the 3:2 pulldown was accomplished?), meaning that 66% of this is not 16fps but 16,5 fps. marknyc, were you aware of this?

In light of the ghosting due to the incorrect PAL-NTSC transfer, and the unfortunate case where a shot of a letter written, naturally, in German has been replaced by one in which the letter is in English, I feel that perhaps marknyc should have instead used the PAL R2 release for making his version. As it is, the NTSC transfer, the ghosting and the slowing down all contribute to the existence of strange interpolated frames, making the movement in marknyc's version somewhat jittery.

I still applaud his effort and look forward to watching the complete film!
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Old 02-28-07, 06:04 PM   #99
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Yes, I did use the R1 KINO release. But I didn't feel that led to "jittery" movement (although there is some blurring during fast movement). I don't know if the PAL version would've prevented this. Pinnacle Studio, which I used to slow the film down, has a "Smooth Motion" option when changing the frame rate. I tested scenes with this feature on and off, and found that having it on generally produced better results.

Let me know what you think when you watch the whole film - not only the quality of my work, but also what it's like to watch it with natural movement.

Thanks,

Mark

Last edited by marknyc; 02-28-07 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 07-05-07, 04:54 PM   #100
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Just to add my two cents to the discussion (and, apparently, bump the thread), I thought the film plays very well at 16 (give or take) fps. In my opinion it was definitely an experiment worth carrying out.
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