Why did yoda give up?

thematahara · 06-27-05, 01:56 PM

After watching this a second time, I still think it is the best of all 6 films, but one thing bothers me.

Why did Yoda walk away from the fight with Palpatine? To me it seemed like yoda was obviously the stronger of the two, so why walk away and let the empire take over?

Yoda seemed like the type of guy that would fight to the death to protect the republic, yet he just walks away.

Am I missing something?

slcsnkman · 06-27-05, 02:11 PM

So people like you would have something to discuss....christ the movie is over and done with...let it go

Josh H · 06-27-05, 02:34 PM

He had lost his light saber and just taken a long fall. He was beaten, he didn't give up.

He was holding his own, but he had bad luck and took that bad fall rather than just falling into a nearby pod like Sidious did.

thematahara · 06-27-05, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slcsnkman

So people like you would have something to discuss....christ the movie is over and done with...let it go

You know, you're right....now if you would please inform the operators of these forums that we are not allowed to discuss movies after they are released...this madness has gone on for far to long.

Class316 · 06-27-05, 03:26 PM

I suppose he decided he would live to fight another day rather than risk dying and lose all hope.

candyrocket786 · 06-27-05, 04:21 PM

...because Palpatine had the high ground.

Class316 · 06-27-05, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyrocket786

...because Palpatine had the high ground.

Dath Maul also did in Ep I but it didn't seem to deter Obi Wan.

outer-edge · 06-27-05, 06:53 PM

I also thought that in his situation, he no longer had time left to fight. Palp had clones there rather soon after Yoda crawled off. Had he stayed and fought, he most likely would have been dealing with Palp and a clone army.

Dead · 06-27-05, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slcsnkman

So people like you would have something to discuss....christ the movie is over and done with...let it go

slcsnkman, threadcrapping is against forum rules. If you aren't interested in the topic, then please don't post in the thread.

Rogue588 · 06-27-05, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thematahara

You know, you're right....now if you would please inform the operators of these forums that we are not allowed to discuss movies after they are released...this madness has gone on for far to long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyrocket786

...because Palpatine had the high ground.

Ya know, after watching this repeatedly [since it's probably my favorite of the saber battles, "Duel Of the Fates" overuse aside], I was wondering the same thing. However, some people that shop at the comic book store I go to said that in the novel he was doubting himself during the entire battle. Don't know if this is true or not..

RocShemp · 06-29-05, 08:23 AM

I think the point is that Darth Maul was a punk (neato dual light sabre to the contrary) and that's why Obi-Wan bested him.

buckee1 · 06-29-05, 08:36 AM

Admittedly, I think Darth Maul was a little too over confident in his fight with Obi-Wan and it definately cost him in the end. Yoda, I think new that there was little more he could do to fight for the Republic. The Sith had really played their hand well and had qucikly made the Jedi little more than a memory in a very short period of time. He fought the Emperor and stood his ground but it was definately time for a hasty retreat. I think he left so that he could assess the damage and decide if he should die today and change nothing or live to fight again another day, and work to overthrow the empire.

mikehunt · 06-29-05, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Class316

Dath Maul also did in Ep I but it didn't seem to deter Obi Wan.

yeah, but unlike obi wan yoda could retreat and live. obi wan could either try a force pull up/jump or he could fall to his death

Dr. DVD · 06-30-05, 06:18 PM

I don't see Yoda as being defeated as much as realizing that the best case scenario was going to be a draw. He wanted to destroy Sidious, but realized that they were both equals in terms of power and on equal grounds would always wind up in a stalemate. Also, there was the fact that had Yoda chosen to climb and face him again, he would be having to eventually face the back-up. I think this proves that Sidious knew he couldn't win flat-out either, as he needed back-up.

muiaucht · 06-30-05, 10:50 PM

he lost his light sabre. it's pretty hard to beat someone when they have a light sabre and you dont. plus he had fallen really far. still, i see what you mean, yoda probably could have picked up his light sabre and fought but i dont know... maybe theres some other reason he left as well...

All Your Base Are Belong To Us - Zero Wing

Cameron · 07-01-05, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikehunt

yeah, but unlike obi wan yoda could retreat and live. obi wan could either try a force pull up/jump or he could fall to his death

what about luke in Empire...

mikehunt · 07-01-05, 04:19 PM

he got lucky and got sucked into a side shaft instead of going splat on the flat bottom. plus the falcon came back, if it hadn't he would have likely fallen off that antenna thing in a short while
the shaft in TPM didn't seem like the same kind, I doubt it had side shafts that obi wan could slide into at an angle

plus, I always got the impression Luke was expecting the fall to be to his death

Josh H · 07-01-05, 04:23 PM

Yeah, luke decided to fall to his death rather than join vader. He just got lucky and survived the fall.

uhftv · 08-07-05, 07:44 PM

I'd like a more definitive answer for this (yeah right)

this would have been the last time Yoda would see action (not sure about the books)
There had to have been a deliberate choice in the script to have him bow out and not choose to act. It does seem to nag on me more because this would be the only instance where Jedi doesnt press on one-on-one, unless circumstances prevented it.

All the duels in Ep III seemed to whiz by too fast for me.

The last we saw was a look of resignation as he was leaving. (And the little matter of leaving his cloak behind so Sidious wouldnt bother going after him.)

I think every decision taken was made to get the audience to watch the OT again.

ShagMan · 08-07-05, 08:38 PM

so that was the reason for leaving the cloak? I remember that being shown prominently, and I didn't get it at the time...

Fok · 08-08-05, 03:10 PM

After falling, the stormtroupers would of arrived and over powered Yoda.

Class316 · 08-10-05, 08:45 AM

Seeing it the first time it looked like Yoda lost. But after a second viewing it was definitely a draw, cause both had equal force powers and repelled one another.

Yoda simply thought it best to live and fight another day as he wouldn't be able to take on both Palpatine and the troopers.

uhftv · 08-21-05, 06:18 PM

Interesting how in OT neither Emperor or Vader mention Yoda at all, as if they were not aware he existed at all.

I cant think of any times in the prequels where you have a duel and troops interfere. Usually there is a weird circumstance where only the fighters are around. But I'm not aware of any rules where outside forces can attack while Jedi/Sith are duelling. But I'm probably getting that mixed up with "'immortals from Highlander' rules"

Cameron · 08-23-05, 04:10 AM

no need for vader to mention yoda in the OT...he doesn't mention 3PO either and he built the damn droid. No big deal.

I think a few factors come into play when it comes to troops or droids coming into a duel. First they just aren't around...episode 1's duel of the fates, episode 2's yoda dooku scene, episode 3 obi vader and so on.

however when they are onlooker in a new hope i would give this reason. They know Vader wants the fight. Imagine being the galaxy's biggest bad ass, and having no one to fight with in 20 years. No one is carrying around light sabres...finally vader gets to duel...do you want to be the jack ass of a storm trooper that decided to shoot the old man, basically saying to Vader....we thought the old guy from Ladykillers was going to beat your ass so we shot him....no way. You would be choked before you got the sentence out. This holds true with vader fighting luke. He is happy to meet him in battle.

Fincher Fan · 08-23-05, 06:15 AM

When you gotta go, you gotta go.

06-27-05, 01:56 PM	#1
thematahara Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 994	Why did yoda give up? After watching this a second time, I still think it is the best of all 6 films, but one thing bothers me. Why did Yoda walk away from the fight with Palpatine? To me it seemed like yoda was obviously the stronger of the two, so why walk away and let the empire take over? Yoda seemed like the type of guy that would fight to the death to protect the republic, yet he just walks away. Am I missing something? __________________ No time for love Dr. Jones.

06-27-05, 06:53 PM	#8
outer-edge DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,344	I also thought that in his situation, he no longer had time left to fight. Palp had clones there rather soon after Yoda crawled off. Had he stayed and fought, he most likely would have been dealing with Palp and a clone army. __________________ Live Tag: OuterEdge

06-29-05, 08:23 AM	#11
RocShemp DVD Talk Legend Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 23,989	I think the point is that Darth Maul was a punk (neato dual light sabre to the contrary) and that's why Obi-Wan bested him. __________________ So there's simultaneously a super secret team of giant robots and a super secret team of technologically enhanced super soldiers, and neither team knows about the other? The governments in these movies must be far more effective than our actual government. Well, damn it, I want some realism and mature adult themes in my giant robot and super soldier movies! - Suprmallet

06-29-05, 08:36 AM	#12
buckee1 DVD Talk Ultimate Edition Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Minding the precious things in the Local Shop Posts: 4,107	Admittedly, I think Darth Maul was a little too over confident in his fight with Obi-Wan and it definately cost him in the end. Yoda, I think new that there was little more he could do to fight for the Republic. The Sith had really played their hand well and had qucikly made the Jedi little more than a memory in a very short period of time. He fought the Emperor and stood his ground but it was definately time for a hasty retreat. I think he left so that he could assess the damage and decide if he should die today and change nothing or live to fight again another day, and work to overthrow the empire. __________________ Ciao'

06-30-05, 06:18 PM	#14
Dr. DVD DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 18,489	I don't see Yoda as being defeated as much as realizing that the best case scenario was going to be a draw. He wanted to destroy Sidious, but realized that they were both equals in terms of power and on equal grounds would always wind up in a stalemate. Also, there was the fact that had Yoda chosen to climb and face him again, he would be having to eventually face the back-up. I think this proves that Sidious knew he couldn't win flat-out either, as he needed back-up. __________________ "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects

06-27-05, 02:11 PM	#2
slcsnkman Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 110	So people like you would have something to discuss....christ the movie is over and done with...let it go

06-27-05, 02:34 PM	#3
Josh H Retired Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 27,389	He had lost his light saber and just taken a long fall. He was beaten, he didn't give up. He was holding his own, but he had bad luck and took that bad fall rather than just falling into a nearby pod like Sidious did.

06-27-05, 03:26 PM	#5
Class316 DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,832	I suppose he decided he would live to fight another day rather than risk dying and lose all hope.

06-27-05, 04:21 PM	#6
candyrocket786 DVD Talk Ultimate Edition Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 4,171	...because Palpatine had the high ground.

06-30-05, 10:50 PM	#15
muiaucht Cool New Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 33	he lost his light sabre. it's pretty hard to beat someone when they have a light sabre and you dont. plus he had fallen really far. still, i see what you mean, yoda probably could have picked up his light sabre and fought but i dont know... maybe theres some other reason he left as well... All Your Base Are Belong To Us - Zero Wing Last edited by muiaucht; 06-30-05 at 10:57 PM.

07-01-05, 04:19 PM	#17
mikehunt DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY Posts: 29,148	he got lucky and got sucked into a side shaft instead of going splat on the flat bottom. plus the falcon came back, if it hadn't he would have likely fallen off that antenna thing in a short while the shaft in TPM didn't seem like the same kind, I doubt it had side shafts that obi wan could slide into at an angle plus, I always got the impression Luke was expecting the fall to be to his death __________________ USS Ben Sisko's Mother F**ing Pimp Hand - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT2Xpfm7Iq8&feature=plcp Vote for freedom not political parties. .... MOΛΩN ΛABE If they had a philosophy. If they weren't too busy gnawing on your insides. Last edited by mikehunt; 07-01-05 at 04:23 PM.*

07-01-05, 04:23 PM	#18
Josh H Retired Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 27,389	Yeah, luke decided to fall to his death rather than join vader. He just got lucky and survived the fall.

08-07-05, 07:44 PM	#19
uhftv Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 483	I'd like a more definitive answer for this (yeah right) this would have been the last time Yoda would see action (not sure about the books) There had to have been a deliberate choice in the script to have him bow out and not choose to act. It does seem to nag on me more because this would be the only instance where Jedi doesnt press on one-on-one, unless circumstances prevented it. All the duels in Ep III seemed to whiz by too fast for me. The last we saw was a look of resignation as he was leaving. (And the little matter of leaving his cloak behind so Sidious wouldnt bother going after him.) I think every decision taken was made to get the audience to watch the OT again.

08-07-05, 08:38 PM	#20
ShagMan DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,411	so that was the reason for leaving the cloak? I remember that being shown prominently, and I didn't get it at the time... __________________ -Josh Murrah

08-08-05, 03:10 PM	#21
Fok DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Canada, BC Posts: 6,647	After falling, the stormtroupers would of arrived and over powered Yoda.

08-10-05, 08:45 AM	#22
Class316 DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 2,832	Seeing it the first time it looked like Yoda lost. But after a second viewing it was definitely a draw, cause both had equal force powers and repelled one another. Yoda simply thought it best to live and fight another day as he wouldn't be able to take on both Palpatine and the troopers.

08-21-05, 06:18 PM	#23
uhftv Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 483	Interesting how in OT neither Emperor or Vader mention Yoda at all, as if they were not aware he existed at all. I cant think of any times in the prequels where you have a duel and troops interfere. Usually there is a weird circumstance where only the fighters are around. But I'm not aware of any rules where outside forces can attack while Jedi/Sith are duelling. But I'm probably getting that mixed up with "'immortals from Highlander' rules"

08-23-05, 04:10 AM	#24
Cameron DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 12,306	no need for vader to mention yoda in the OT...he doesn't mention 3PO either and he built the damn droid. No big deal. I think a few factors come into play when it comes to troops or droids coming into a duel. First they just aren't around...episode 1's duel of the fates, episode 2's yoda dooku scene, episode 3 obi vader and so on. however when they are onlooker in a new hope i would give this reason. They know Vader wants the fight. Imagine being the galaxy's biggest bad ass, and having no one to fight with in 20 years. No one is carrying around light sabres...finally vader gets to duel...do you want to be the jack ass of a storm trooper that decided to shoot the old man, basically saying to Vader....we thought the old guy from Ladykillers was going to beat your ass so we shot him....no way. You would be choked before you got the sentence out. This holds true with vader fighting luke. He is happy to meet him in battle. __________________ You wanted a Sig. You got a Sig. The Hottest Sig in The World...Music Video I directed for Quiet Company <---Let me know what you think. <-Now Playing on MTV.CA dvd aficionado Official Fox Film Noir Thread All New Official Twilight Zone Thread HD-DVD Supporter

08-23-05, 06:15 AM	#25
Fincher Fan DVD Talk Ultimate Edition Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rampaging across DVDTalk. Posts: 4,046	When you gotta go, you gotta go.