Please Explain the Shining? *Spoiler*

ShelleyLevene · 03-07-05, 02:54 PM

Do cabin fever, supernatural or paranormal forces, or living with his ugly wife ultimately force Jack to become a psycho?

What were the two girls suppose to represent?

Were they a part of the Donner Party the family that turned to cannibalism?

When the kid started talking with the strange voice did he suffer from multiple personality disorder?

I thought I understood this movie when I first watched it but after seeing it again I am not so sure.

The Ferret · 03-07-05, 02:59 PM

I've never really thought too hard about what anything means, I just let it scare the crap out of me. I'll give it a shot though:

I don't think the girls represent anything. They were killed by the bartender or something weren't they? I guess the kid, after seeing these horrible imagines, channeled them into an evil-side or something.

FinkPish · 03-07-05, 03:03 PM

I think it is a bit of all three of those elements that led Jack to go a bit nuts.

The girls were the daughters of Delbert Grady, one of the previous caretakers, the man Jack met in the bathroom. He said he had to "correct" them, and that is what he did.

Danny had a sort of psychic link to something supernatural, and was able to interact with the "spirits" that were haunting the hotel. And Scatman Corothers had the same ability, which is how they were able to read each other's thoughts.

Groucho · 03-07-05, 03:04 PM

In a nutshell, the hotel is evil and collect souls. Jack is the latest "victim." Those souls are then enlisted by the hotel to collect more souls. The two girls were the daughters of the previous caretaker, who like Jack was corrupted by the hotel. Danny has, among other things, the ability to communicate with the spirit world. The other voice is a benevolant spirit who tries to help out.

Hotel = Sauron
Danny's Finger = Gandalf
Jack = Middle Earth
Danny = Frodo

*or*

Hotem = Palpatine
Danny's Finger = Obi Wan
Jack = Anakin
Danny = Luke

majorjoe23 · 03-07-05, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groucho

In a nutshell, the hotel is evil and collect souls. Jack is the latest "victim." Those souls are then enlisted by the hotel to collect more souls. The two girls were the daughters of the previous caretaker, who like Jack was corrupted by the hotel. Danny has, among other things, the ability to communicate with the spirit world. The other voice is a benevolant spirit who tries to help out.

Hotel = Sauron
Danny's Finger = Gandalf
Jack = Middle Earth
Danny = Frodo

*or*

Hotem = Palpatine
Danny's Finger = Obi Wan
Jack = Anakin
Danny = Luke

No, no no. The hotel is the briefcase and Jack represents Vincent Vega. Danny is Jules Winfield, who knows he must walk the rigteous path to stay alive. Danny's finger is the tyranny of evil men.

sundog · 03-07-05, 04:53 PM

In another nutshell, the Overlook is an echo chamber for time, thought, and memory.

Jack succumbs to the hotel, lets it externalize his own faults, both as a father and as a man. He wasn't crazy at the beginning of the film, his life was just an utter disappointment. And after some subtle and not too subtle prodding the hotel cracked him and made him its tool in capturing Danny.

The Overlook obviously wants Danny, his power is attractive to the hotel, as it plays with him (the Grady girls, the ball leading to room 237) and forcibly tries to take him (his injuries from the woman in 237). These assaults on Danny force him to hide behind his 'filter', or protector, Tony.

As to the 2 girls, we are led to believe by the character of Stuart Ullman (at the interview) that these are the 2 dead Grady girls, murdered by their father years ago. But the 2 girls are obviously twins, and Ullman says they were 8 and 6 years old.

And as I said above, Tony was Danny's defense system. He comes to the forefront of Danny to protect him (and his mother).

Everything is obfuscated in Kubrick's film, from the timeline (seemingly random title cards indicating time passage) to the script (the dead caretaker, Grady, is referred to as both Charles and Delbert). Check out what he does with mirrors and such in scenes, deliberately doubling shots (like when Jack is recounting his dream to Wendy, the first half of the scene is shot in a mirror).

There's a whole thread of something being just 'not right' throughout the movie. It's not exact, not dependable, for certain details. A lot like our own memories, right?

sherm42 · 03-07-05, 07:01 PM

I can tell you that in the book, instead of talking with his finger, Danny goes into trances where an older boy tries to warn him about what is coming. That older boy is actually himself in the future trying to protect himself in the past.

Michael Corvin · 03-07-05, 07:17 PM

[quote=sundog
There's a whole thread of something being just 'not right' throughout the movie. It's not exact, not dependable, for certain details. A lot like our own memories, right?[/QUOTE]

Worst book to movie translation, EVER.

Danny Torrence is a Breaker.

inri222 · 03-07-05, 07:25 PM

Read this:

http://www.drummerman.net/shining/essays.html

FinkPish · 03-07-05, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inri222

Read this:

http://www.drummerman.net/shining/essays.html

I've read that essay before and it is the biggest stretch to even begin believing. It is a load of bullshit.

MasterCXtreme · 03-07-05, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinkPish

I've read that essay before and it is the biggest stretch to even begin believing. It is a load of bullshit.

It's an interesting way of looking at it that I had not thought of before. I thought it was a good read.

Rival11 · 03-07-05, 08:52 PM

I think things work if you keep it simple - Groucho started doing well until he turned into himself.

The hotel "claims people" hence the picture at the end of the movie, Jack was the newest soul therefore he's shown as the caretaker in the picture because like Grady said "you've always been the caretaker sir" - even ghosts show respect.

Everything that happens in between is the result of all the other caretaker doings (i.e. that nasty bitch in room 237, the axed up girls, the bloody elevators.......would be kind of cool to see some prequels to this flick huh?). I've always thought that all the other ghosts you see dressed up were the previous caretakers and yes............even that crazy bastard who was getting some service from that dude/chick in the bear suit.

Danny has the shining, the shining or whatever the hell it is knows that they are coming up to the hotel.

It's just the ultimate haunted house flick I've always loved how certain aspects of the film were left to interpretation.

Rival11 · 03-07-05, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inri222

Read this:

http://www.drummerman.net/shining/essays.html

Uh, that's a little too far fetched.....don't you agree?

Numanoid · 03-07-05, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin

Worst book to movie translation, EVER.

IMO, it's the best movie version of a shitty book, EVER.

Squirrel God · 03-07-05, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rival11

Uh, that's a little too far fetched.....don't you agree?

For something directed by Stanley Kubrick? No.

Rogue588 · 03-07-05, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin

Worst book to movie translation, EVER.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numanoid

IMO, it's the best movie version of a shitty book, EVER.

So how do ya'll feel about the TV version?

Squirrel God · 03-07-05, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue588

So how do ya'll feel about the TV version?

It was far better than I expected it to be. I'll leave it at that.

Michael Corvin · 03-07-05, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue588

So how do ya'll feel about the TV version?

Brilliant compared to that Kubrikian hack fest.

If only they had done it for HBO/cable to include a little gore it would have been a 4 star miniseries.

dogmatica · 03-08-05, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inri222

http://www.drummerman.net/shining/essays.html

It's a great essay - I've been a fan for some time. With Kubrick, it's possible parts (or all) is true, but regardless, I'm very interested in the writer's novel approach to interpretation.

jfoobar · 03-08-05, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inri222

Read this:

http://www.drummerman.net/shining/essays.html

I started reading this with an open mind. That lasted about 5 sentences.

jfoobar · 03-08-05, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groucho

Hotel = Sauron
Danny's Finger = Gandalf
Jack = Middle Earth
Danny = Frodo

I can therefore assume, based on the striking resemblance between the two, that Shelly Duvall's character represents the Mouth of Sauron?

sundog · 03-08-05, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin

Danny Torrence is a Breaker.

Heh. Is that actually mentioned somewhere in one of King's books? Because his whole fascination with linking his past works together through current works (via the Dark Tower series, or what-have-you) seems desperate and a bit of a hack literary device, in my opinion.

In terms of the adaptation, Kubrick's production of The Shining illustrated, to me, the disparaties between the literary and film mediums. I saw the film first, loved it, watched it numerous times, and mulled over it. Then I read the book, and having read quite a bit of King before finally making it to The Shining, I must say the book really is just run-of-the-mill King: a well-written horror piece, with some excellent moments, but leading to the usual exhausted Stephen King conclusion.

I can't say I didn't enjoy the book, but all the ambiguities and complexities of the film were not present. And I realized it was because Kubrick used the elements of film, not the literary elements of the book, to make a completely different gothic horror story.

As for that posted link to a certain intepretation, Kubrick is never that overt. He wants to elicit an emotional response, not make a political statement. That's part of what keeps his films timeless.

Fok · 03-08-05, 11:32 AM

I'd say read the book, its way better than the movie (which does not do it justice).

Michael Corvin · 03-08-05, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundog

And I realized it was because Kubrick used the elements of film, not the literary elements of the book, to make a completely different gothic horror story.

Exactly. While it may be a good film, the only things that remained from the book are the title, the Overlook, and character names. Why bother at that point? Just make an original movie.

There is a huge difference in Jack from the movie and Jack from the book. Totally different characters. In the book he is a victim of isolation and circumstance driving him slowly insane.

That is the main problem I have. The book has well thought out characters. The movie has charictures and cliches. The movie is nothing more than a run of the mill horror film. The hotel is haunted and it makes him insane overnight. Give him an axe and let him loose on his family. Mix in some shots of ghosts. zzzzzz.... Nothing more than the horror films of today, except that it was made by a famous director. If it didn't have Kubrik's name on the film, I doubt we would be discussing it today.

As for the Dark Tower, all of his books intertwine or are related in some fashion. There were many other children with paranormal abilities in his works(Carrie, Danny, Charlie from Firestarter, etc.), it was a running theme, all linked together in the DT series.

wendersfan · 03-08-05, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numanoid

IMO, it's the best movie version of a shitty book, EVER.

It really depends on whether you're more of a Kubrick fan, or a King fan. I think King is a man who has a talent for stringing words together in an entertaining way, but is otherwise an unremarkable writer. I think Kubrick is one of the greatest directors who ever lived. Which is my longwinded way of saying

03-07-05, 02:54 PM	#1
ShelleyLevene Banned Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 112	Please Explain the Shining? Spoiler Do cabin fever, supernatural or paranormal forces, or living with his ugly wife ultimately force Jack to become a psycho? What were the two girls suppose to represent? Were they a part of the Donner Party the family that turned to cannibalism? When the kid started talking with the strange voice did he suffer from multiple personality disorder? I thought I understood this movie when I first watched it but after seeing it again I am not so sure.

03-07-05, 03:04 PM	#4
Groucho DVD Talk Godfather Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 62,161	In a nutshell, the hotel is evil and collect souls. Jack is the latest "victim." Those souls are then enlisted by the hotel to collect more souls. The two girls were the daughters of the previous caretaker, who like Jack was corrupted by the hotel. Danny has, among other things, the ability to communicate with the spirit world. The other voice is a benevolant spirit who tries to help out. Hotel = Sauron Danny's Finger = Gandalf Jack = Middle Earth Danny = Frodo or Hotem = Palpatine Danny's Finger = Obi Wan Jack = Anakin Danny = Luke __________________ Xbox Live: Runner Groucho PSN: RunnerGroucho "The Borg is a species" -- Tracer Bullet (Citation)

03-07-05, 07:17 PM	#8
Michael Corvin DVD Talk Hero Join Date: May 1999 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 44,747	[quote=sundog There's a whole thread of something being just 'not right' throughout the movie. It's not exact, not dependable, for certain details. A lot like our own memories, right?[/QUOTE] Worst book to movie translation, EVER. Danny Torrence is a Breaker. __________________ XBOXLive FU Hackers! Now Playing Borderlands 2 Recently Finished Halo 4

03-07-05, 02:59 PM	#2
The Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 546	I've never really thought too hard about what anything means, I just let it scare the crap out of me. I'll give it a shot though: I don't think the girls represent anything. They were killed by the bartender or something weren't they? I guess the kid, after seeing these horrible imagines, channeled them into an evil-side or something.

03-07-05, 03:03 PM	#3
FinkPish DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,657	I think it is a bit of all three of those elements that led Jack to go a bit nuts. The girls were the daughters of Delbert Grady, one of the previous caretakers, the man Jack met in the bathroom. He said he had to "correct" them, and that is what he did. Danny had a sort of psychic link to something supernatural, and was able to interact with the "spirits" that were haunting the hotel. And Scatman Corothers had the same ability, which is how they were able to read each other's thoughts.

03-07-05, 04:53 PM	#6
sundog DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 3,222	In another nutshell, the Overlook is an echo chamber for time, thought, and memory. Jack succumbs to the hotel, lets it externalize his own faults, both as a father and as a man. He wasn't crazy at the beginning of the film, his life was just an utter disappointment. And after some subtle and not too subtle prodding the hotel cracked him and made him its tool in capturing Danny. The Overlook obviously wants Danny, his power is attractive to the hotel, as it plays with him (the Grady girls, the ball leading to room 237) and forcibly tries to take him (his injuries from the woman in 237). These assaults on Danny force him to hide behind his 'filter', or protector, Tony. As to the 2 girls, we are led to believe by the character of Stuart Ullman (at the interview) that these are the 2 dead Grady girls, murdered by their father years ago. But the 2 girls are obviously twins, and Ullman says they were 8 and 6 years old. And as I said above, Tony was Danny's defense system. He comes to the forefront of Danny to protect him (and his mother). Everything is obfuscated in Kubrick's film, from the timeline (seemingly random title cards indicating time passage) to the script (the dead caretaker, Grady, is referred to as both Charles and Delbert). Check out what he does with mirrors and such in scenes, deliberately doubling shots (like when Jack is recounting his dream to Wendy, the first half of the scene is shot in a mirror). There's a whole thread of something being just 'not right' throughout the movie. It's not exact, not dependable, for certain details. A lot like our own memories, right?

03-07-05, 07:01 PM	#7
sherm42 DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Sacramento Posts: 2,930	I can tell you that in the book, instead of talking with his finger, Danny goes into trances where an older boy tries to warn him about what is coming. That older boy is actually himself in the future trying to protect himself in the past.

03-07-05, 07:25 PM	#9
inri222 DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,446	Read this: http://www.drummerman.net/shining/essays.html

03-07-05, 08:52 PM	#12
Rival11 DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,858	I think things work if you keep it simple - Groucho started doing well until he turned into himself. The hotel "claims people" hence the picture at the end of the movie, Jack was the newest soul therefore he's shown as the caretaker in the picture because like Grady said "you've always been the caretaker sir" - even ghosts show respect. Everything that happens in between is the result of all the other caretaker doings (i.e. that nasty bitch in room 237, the axed up girls, the bloody elevators.......would be kind of cool to see some prequels to this flick huh?). I've always thought that all the other ghosts you see dressed up were the previous caretakers and yes............even that crazy bastard who was getting some service from that dude/chick in the bear suit. Danny has the shining, the shining or whatever the hell it is knows that they are coming up to the hotel. It's just the ultimate haunted house flick I've always loved how certain aspects of the film were left to interpretation.

03-08-05, 11:32 AM	#23
Fok DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Canada, BC Posts: 6,647	I'd say read the book, its way better than the movie (which does not do it justice).