Classic films are overrated
08-02-04, 01:53 PM
#101
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Originally posted by ehonauer
There is a similar bias when you watch a modern movie. The impression that Saving Private Ryan or The Usual Suspects or The Road To Perdition are more "realistic" than older films is based on style. When you judge these movies as "better" than older films, you are just responding to the movie's style (and not its content).
There is a similar bias when you watch a modern movie. The impression that Saving Private Ryan or The Usual Suspects or The Road To Perdition are more "realistic" than older films is based on style. When you judge these movies as "better" than older films, you are just responding to the movie's style (and not its content).
08-02-04, 01:54 PM
#102
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Originally posted by Rypro 525
I'm only 19 also, and i like all the early 30's pre code gangster movies like public enemy, little ceasar, scarface (what the De Palma version isn't an original?). also love good, the bad and the ugly, citizen kane, loa, and many more.
I'm only 19 also, and i like all the early 30's pre code gangster movies like public enemy, little ceasar, scarface (what the De Palma version isn't an original?). also love good, the bad and the ugly, citizen kane, loa, and many more.
08-02-04, 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jeraden
Tell that to all the Criterion worshippers. In my opinion, the majority of the Criterion catalog is rubbish, but many maintain its high art. Somehow slapping the name Criterion in front of a bad "classic" magically makes it a good "classic".
Tell that to all the Criterion worshippers. In my opinion, the majority of the Criterion catalog is rubbish, but many maintain its high art. Somehow slapping the name Criterion in front of a bad "classic" magically makes it a good "classic".
Since when has age displayed wisdom? If you do not ponder you experiences then you do not acquire the wisdom you seek. And if you do not aqcuire the wisdom you do not ponder, and some live a life time without true wisdom.
Last edited by DVD Smurf; 08-02-04 at 02:13 PM.
08-02-04, 02:01 PM
#104
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I realize that there are a lot of people that seem to be that way - "everything B&W is good" or "everything Criterion is good" - but I still don't think there's anyone who is really like that.
There's just a tendency to believe that all classic film buffs are snobby about modern movies, or foreign film lovers are snobby about action blockbusters. Sure, some of them are. But it's simply a sweeping generalization to say they're all like that, even the ones here on the forum, even the Criterion "elitists". Unless someone can honestly come forward and say "the entirety of the Criterion catalog is comprised of great films", I won't believe it for a minute.
(People know that I like movies, and sometimes ask me who is my favorite director. I tell them Andrei Tarkovsky. Immediately I know I've been mentally labeled a film snob, so I always follow it up with "My second favorite director is John Carpenter".)
There's just a tendency to believe that all classic film buffs are snobby about modern movies, or foreign film lovers are snobby about action blockbusters. Sure, some of them are. But it's simply a sweeping generalization to say they're all like that, even the ones here on the forum, even the Criterion "elitists". Unless someone can honestly come forward and say "the entirety of the Criterion catalog is comprised of great films", I won't believe it for a minute.
(People know that I like movies, and sometimes ask me who is my favorite director. I tell them Andrei Tarkovsky. Immediately I know I've been mentally labeled a film snob, so I always follow it up with "My second favorite director is John Carpenter".)
08-02-04, 02:12 PM
#105
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DVD Smurf speaks in riddles.
08-02-04, 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by shill66
(People know that I like movies, and sometimes ask me who is my favorite director. I tell them Andrei Tarkovsky. Immediately I know I've been mentally labeled a film snob, so I always follow it up with "My second favorite director is John Carpenter".)
(People know that I like movies, and sometimes ask me who is my favorite director. I tell them Andrei Tarkovsky. Immediately I know I've been mentally labeled a film snob, so I always follow it up with "My second favorite director is John Carpenter".)
I believe that many here use the word snob in regards to other to elevate themselves as they might feel that they are short in achievement. For those who call themselves snobs, they do not really understand why unless the miss some attention. But this is just MHO.
By the way I love Tarkovsky's work as well much done by Carpenter. I actually like Hellboy as well as What time is it there? I am just a huge filmfreak...
08-02-04, 02:16 PM
#107
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Let me give you another reason why I think that younger people might feel that older films are overrated. We live in a society that has become allergic to effort and, although life experiences (aka age) is important, effort is equally if not more important in order to gain appreciation of art. A lot of the so-called classics are not of the current see/digest/forget variety and can be somewhat difficult to approach. They might require more than one viewing in order to gain understanding/appreciation. Not to bash the original poster but giving up after watching half of Laurence of Arabia "because it did nothing for me" is a perfect example. I'd say go back and watch all of it. And then watch it again. And then do some research and read about it. Now I'm not saying watch it until you like it! No, that's not the point. You don't have to love all the classics, but you will at least have gained an appreciation/understanding of why they are important.
Of course not everyone has the same desire/love of film so the amount of effort that one is willing to put into this endeavor may vary.
To finish with an extremely snobish quote from Lautréamont:
"Taste takes effort, taste is a conquest, taste is the quintessence of intelligence."
Disclaimer before Josh Hinkle jumps all over me:
Disregard of you only watch films for entertainment value.
Of course not everyone has the same desire/love of film so the amount of effort that one is willing to put into this endeavor may vary.
To finish with an extremely snobish quote from Lautréamont:
"Taste takes effort, taste is a conquest, taste is the quintessence of intelligence."
Disclaimer before Josh Hinkle jumps all over me:
Disregard of you only watch films for entertainment value.
08-02-04, 02:20 PM
#108
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Originally posted by ehonauer
There is a similar bias when you watch a modern movie. The impression that Saving Private Ryan or The Usual Suspects or The Road To Perdition are more "realistic" than older films is based on style. When you judge these movies as "better" than older films, you are just responding to the movie's style (and not its content). These films were carefully crafted to aesthetically appeal to today's moviegoing audience. The style is "invisible." You're not hearing the accent.
There is a similar bias when you watch a modern movie. The impression that Saving Private Ryan or The Usual Suspects or The Road To Perdition are more "realistic" than older films is based on style. When you judge these movies as "better" than older films, you are just responding to the movie's style (and not its content). These films were carefully crafted to aesthetically appeal to today's moviegoing audience. The style is "invisible." You're not hearing the accent.
Film is linked to writing, and just look at the kind of writing that has been appearing for the past 15 years or so. Can you imagine a Bret Easton Ellis or Chuck Palahniuk novel being written in the 1930's? Can you imagine a William S. Burroughs or Jack Kerouac novel being published in the 1920's? Things change, and there will always be people who hate Shakespeare because it's written all these words that are kind of like the words I use, but not really *gasp*. So be it.
One of my problems with old-film-bashers is grouping them all together, or worse, genre-izing them. Casablanca--while it has a love story in it--I would absolutely not consider to be a romance movie. It is not a date movie, it does not have a predictable ending (at least if your primary frame of reference is modern movies). This is why I consider it brilliant. Hell, if I'd seen it when it originally came out, I might not like it as much. Pigeon-holing old movies into the same group is a mistake. Double Indemnity is not anything like Casablanca, which is not anything like The Gold Rush.
Whether or not you like "old films," you shouldn't really be grouping them all together (as I just did) because they were shot in black and white, or because they don't have surround sound.
08-02-04, 02:21 PM
#109
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Originally posted by eXcentris
"Taste takes effort, taste is a conquest, taste is the quintessence of intelligence."
"Taste takes effort, taste is a conquest, taste is the quintessence of intelligence."
08-02-04, 02:23 PM
#110
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Originally posted by eXcentris
Disclaimer before Josh Hinkle jumps all over me:
Disregard of you only watch films for entertainment value.
Disclaimer before Josh Hinkle jumps all over me:
Disregard of you only watch films for entertainment value.
I see your point, but to me life is far too short to waste time trying to acquire a taste for things that I don't like the first time around. There's too many new things to see and experience.
But I can see the appeal for those who truly love films.
Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 08-02-04 at 02:41 PM.
08-02-04, 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by eXcentris
Let me give you another reason why I think that younger people might feel that older films are overrated. We live in a society that has become allergic to effort and, although life experiences (aka age) is important, effort is equally if not more important in order to gain appreciation of art. A lot of the so-called classics are not of the current see/digest/forget variety and can be somewhat difficult to approach. They might require more than one viewing in order to gain understanding/appreciation. Not to bash the original poster but giving up after watching half of Laurence of Arabia "because it did nothing for me" is a perfect example. I'd say go back and watch all of it. And then watch it again. And then do some research and read about it. Now I'm not saying watch it until you like it! No, that's not the point. You don't have to love all the classics, but you will at least have gained an appreciation/understanding of why they are important.
Of course not everyone has the same desire/love of film so the amount of effort that one is willing to put into this endeavor may vary.
To finish with an extremely snobish quote from Lautréamont:
"Taste takes effort, taste is a conquest, taste is the quintessence of intelligence."
Disclaimer before Josh Hinkle jumps all over me:
Disregard of you only watch films for entertainment value.
Let me give you another reason why I think that younger people might feel that older films are overrated. We live in a society that has become allergic to effort and, although life experiences (aka age) is important, effort is equally if not more important in order to gain appreciation of art. A lot of the so-called classics are not of the current see/digest/forget variety and can be somewhat difficult to approach. They might require more than one viewing in order to gain understanding/appreciation. Not to bash the original poster but giving up after watching half of Laurence of Arabia "because it did nothing for me" is a perfect example. I'd say go back and watch all of it. And then watch it again. And then do some research and read about it. Now I'm not saying watch it until you like it! No, that's not the point. You don't have to love all the classics, but you will at least have gained an appreciation/understanding of why they are important.
Of course not everyone has the same desire/love of film so the amount of effort that one is willing to put into this endeavor may vary.
To finish with an extremely snobish quote from Lautréamont:
"Taste takes effort, taste is a conquest, taste is the quintessence of intelligence."
Disclaimer before Josh Hinkle jumps all over me:
Disregard of you only watch films for entertainment value.
Nice.
08-02-04, 03:10 PM
#113
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
...to me life is far too short to waste time trying to acquire a taste for things that I don't like the first time around.
...to me life is far too short to waste time trying to acquire a taste for things that I don't like the first time around.
08-02-04, 03:16 PM
#114
Retired
Originally posted by adamblast
Spoken like someone who will be eating cheesy puffs and taco bell their whole life...
Spoken like someone who will be eating cheesy puffs and taco bell their whole life...
I'm not saying I never give anything a second chance, as tastes obviously change over time, but I'm not going to actively try to acquire a taste for something (like the exampe eXcentris gave with Lawrence of Arabia).
With a movie I didn't like, I might watch a little of it on cable one night or even rent it sometime when I have nothing better to do at the time.
Last edited by Josh Hinkle; 08-02-04 at 03:26 PM.
08-02-04, 05:12 PM
#116
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Originally posted by drjay
Can you imagine a William S. Burroughs or Jack Kerouac novel being published in the 1920's?
Can you imagine a William S. Burroughs or Jack Kerouac novel being published in the 1920's?
Thanks for the props btw
08-02-04, 05:44 PM
#118
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I agree with the spirit of the topic.
Last night I watched "Once upon a time in the West".... yaaaaaawn. How disapointing.
And i've seen plenty others that are classic because they are suposedly great, and they weren't. In fact I can't think of any movie called a classic that I've actually enjoyed.
Last night I watched "Once upon a time in the West".... yaaaaaawn. How disapointing.
And i've seen plenty others that are classic because they are suposedly great, and they weren't. In fact I can't think of any movie called a classic that I've actually enjoyed.
08-02-04, 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by eXcentris
Not to bash the original poster but giving up after watching half of Laurence of Arabia "because it did nothing for me" is a perfect example. I'd say go back and watch all of it. And then watch it again. And then do some research and read about it.
Not to bash the original poster but giving up after watching half of Laurence of Arabia "because it did nothing for me" is a perfect example. I'd say go back and watch all of it. And then watch it again. And then do some research and read about it.
08-02-04, 11:30 PM
#123
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Originally posted by neiname
To that point, I think the original poster should watch Seven Samurai and then watch it with the commentary track. The commentary track provided me so many insights into them film I would have never figured out.
To that point, I think the original poster should watch Seven Samurai and then watch it with the commentary track. The commentary track provided me so many insights into them film I would have never figured out.
This is where I'm so thankful for dvd and commentary tracks. Although I heard the Seven Samurai commentary on Laserdisc originally. Anyway, it is my belief that dvd commentaries have raised the bar in terms of making us better movie watchers.
08-02-04, 11:35 PM
#124
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Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
Kinda suprised this thread brought a lot of "closet classic haters". I think people should try and keep an open mind when watching films.
Kinda suprised this thread brought a lot of "closet classic haters". I think people should try and keep an open mind when watching films.
Well I think that goes both ways. I think many of us who dare to say anything bad about old movies are just saying that we have old movies we like... and old movies we don't like. So maybe the "all classics are good" crowd needs to open up their own minds....but I'm sure you'll disagree with that.
Old movie/Classic movie doesn't give it a critique free pass.
08-03-04, 12:03 AM
#125
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Originally posted by Tarnower
Sounds to me like you would benefit greatly by enrolling in a film class at a nearby college. I personally could not disagree more with your view of classic films. In my view, the films released today just pale by comparison to the quality level of films from previous decades.
Sounds to me like you would benefit greatly by enrolling in a film class at a nearby college. I personally could not disagree more with your view of classic films. In my view, the films released today just pale by comparison to the quality level of films from previous decades.
Regarding your last comment: can you elaborate? What do you regard as the best of recent years (let's say 1990 and later) vs. the best of previous decades, and how do the former pale in comparison to the latter?