Groucho

Clarke has made some contradictory statements on the subject. He's also said ""it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House." So I'm not sure I'd use him as a source to either refute nor support the facts.

RockStrongo

It has also been proven that they did not fly until after the ban was lifted.

Moore tried to explain by saying that charter flights couldn't fly yet and that was what he meant in his movie. What BS.

RockStrongo

The point is that we should not have to prove it. Moore should.

He has not done so.

RockStrongo

It was also wrong of Moore to interview soldiers in Iraq and not tell them what it was being used for. He laughed when Matt Lauer asked him about that.

He got those interviews through journalists who were bunkered in with the soldiers. They trusted them.

I bet we will see some lawsuits in the future from these soldiers.

chanster

I like how you use the word "facts" at the end of your sentence..just because you see it in the Michael Moore movie it makes it a "fact" Bull!

The only facts known is they left at some point. The only person who has taken responsibility for that is Dick Clarke. That is a fact

Kicker_of_Elves

Everyone's opinion is different though man. I understand being upset about the bin laden-bush family connection being bs, but isn't that just one part of what the whole film is about?

RockStrongo

No, there are many other distortions in it.

Like the previously mentioned Congressman's nephew comment being left out on purpose and then Moore lied about it.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/la...ndex.php?id=20

Moore said in an interview on ABC that Kennedy never said it, but yet it is on his website.

Achtung

That's what I thought, and my guess is that there is way more evidence in support of this besides the fact that his family members were allowed to leave the country while most flights were grounded.

I'd be very surprised if F9/11 specifically claims that George Bush ordered the flights that took the bin Ladens out of the US, but then I'll actually have to watch the movie before coming to a conclusion on it.

chanster

Sure its only part of the movie but in the review, Geoff says its real. I am not talking about the movie at this point, I am discussing the awfully inaccurate, awfully biased review put out by this site. And no, I don't believe that reviews should be allowed to present "non facts" as facts.

Kicker_of_Elves

I thought i heard he cut that whole scene altogether though, is that still in there?

Kicker_of_Elves

Maybe, instead of starting a thread you should send him an email discussing why you think his review is flawed.

chanster

He asks for discussion about the review in this forum. Please don't tell me or "suggest" I am not allowed to publicly air that the facts presented in the review are wrong.

Groucho

You're reading too much into my post. I was talking about objective facts as to what actually happened, in contrast to what Moore or Clarke say happened.

RockStrongo

See the link above...Moore's website says that they left it in the film.

Kicker_of_Elves

Didn't say you weren't allowed to publicly air the facts. Just thought it would be easier for you to get your side across if you took up a discussion with the person who's review didn't sit well with you.

Jaymole

I say we protest this website until they stop giving positive reviews to left-wing propaganda films like Moores's - moveamericaforward.org

chanster

I really don't care what the original reviewer's thoughts are, its obvious he is so slanted that it doesn't make a difference.

I do care that other people would read the review and not know the "objective" facts instead of slanted, biased, take on the incident. It seems like the only source for his facts was the movie itself - which is sad indeed. (In fact, I don't think Moore's movie goes as far as Geoff's interpretation - but I could be wrong).

If the movie does go that far, I as a certified Michael Moore basher - would be plenty happy because it just gives nice ammunition to me to blast away at him.

Its funny that people accuse Bush of propigating the big lies by just repeating them over and over again, but when it happens with their cause d' celebre, they are happy to spit out the lies over and over again

Kicker_of_Elves

From Moore's Website

"A spokesperson for Fahrenheit 9/11 released the entire transcript of the exchange between Michael Moore and Rep. Mark Kennedy (see below). None of this exchange is included in the film. No statements by Rep. Kennedy are in the film. There was no editing of his remarks and Congressman Kennedy will remain in the film."

chanster

There is a whole thread about Congressman Kennedy in the Other Forum. The fact is Moore never included any comments from the Congressman, so of course there was no editing.

Just the images and audio from Moore confronting the Congressman and giving off weird vibes. But heck that Michael Moore's POV, its his movie, so whatever.

But they are playing loose with "editing of his remarks" line. Its semantics.

RockStrongo

I think Michael Moore is about as trustworthy as Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell.

They all slant the truth in their favor.

It is just sad that Michael Moore's interpretation and speculation is being applauded as brilliant filmmaking.

RockStrongo

Rep Kennedy WAS in the film. His comments weren't.

My point was that Moore said on Sunday morning on ABC that Rep Kennedy never said it and the raw footage and transcripts would prove it.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/ThisW...e040620-1.html

This Week followed up with the office of Rep. Kennedy. He did have two nephews in the military, but neither served in Iraq. Kennedy's staff agrees that Moore's Website is accurate but insists the movie version is misleading. In the film, Moore says, "Congressman, I'm trying to get members of Congress to get their kids to enlist in the Army and go over to Iraq." But, from the transcript, here's the rest:

MOORE: Is there any way you could help me with that?

KENNEDY: How would I help you?

MOORE: Pass it out to other members of Congress.

KENNEDY: I'd be happy to — especially those who voted for the war. I have a nephew on his way to Afghanistan.


They caught him in a lie when ABC posted the transcript right after the interview.

He obviously is not very good at presenting the facts.

Groucho

I don't think Moore was deliberately lying on "This Week" when he said that Kennedy never mentioned his nephew in Afghanistan during the original encounter. I think he was just mistaken.

chanster

When Michael Moore gets caught in lies he is "mistaken"
Pretty big mistake. Others would call it lying (or is it lieing) on national television.

RockStrongo

It is a pretty big mistake.

I am accusing him of lying. It is my speculation, but if its good for him then its good enough for me.

Groucho

I think if he were deliberately lying he wouldn't have left the transcript up on his official website that contradicts the statements he made.