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Gibson to delete scene in 'The Passion of The Christ'

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Gibson to delete scene in 'The Passion of The Christ'

Old 02-04-04, 03:53 PM
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It pisses me off how a few people who probably only represent a minority of jews are making Mel basically change his film.
I really wonder whose film I will be seeing when it is released in February.
Old 02-04-04, 04:26 PM
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I've just lost interest in this film...I'm agnostic, so the story doesn't really bother me.. I was excited about watching a movie that had a lot of controversy surrounding it, but still had the balls to tell a story regardless of outside influences.

Not anymore!
Old 02-04-04, 04:57 PM
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What's the problem here?

If it's in the source material (and has been for thousands of years), why are they upset that it's also in the movie? He's just being loyal to the Bible - what's wrong with that?
Old 02-04-04, 05:37 PM
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Let me qualify my statements by stating that I am not a religous person and I don't necessarily agree with all that has been said about this controversy.

That being said, as I understand it, it is not just the "source material" that is causing all the buzz. It is several factors. One is that an outside source has been used (i.e. 18th century visions of a nun, the use has even some catholics concerned). Another factor comes from the fear that if selectively done, a story or movie could be made that becomes overly biased against the Jewish people. For example, all of the Gospels tell the same story from different perspectives and each of them contain aspects that describe the role that the Jewish people of that time played in the Passion. However, if only selective elements from each of these stories are pulled, with the intention of putting an emphasis on the blame of the Jewish people, a biased but true to the source story can be created.

Another factor deals with the fear of how these events are portrayed, no one knows for sure, visually speaking, what the people looked like, what the act itself looked like, and many Jewish people are concerned that if not carefully done, an overly negative and violent depiction of the Jewish people could be seen. Also, it is possible for someone to minimize other parts of the 'source' material such as the role the Romans played, especially since the Romans were the true governing and ruling power at the time. Many people feel it could be made to look like the Romans were just going along for the ride or pressured into things they wouldn't do, and this could also lead to a biased and overly negative view of the Jewish people of that time. Of course this is a bunch of 'coulds' and 'maybes' and the fact is that no one yet know what the final cut will contain, but add to these concerns the fact that Mel's father is a known antisemite (fair or not), Mel adheres to a sect of the Catholic church that does not agree with the many strides the current Church has made to bridge the gap with the Jewish people, and some of the borderline 'icky' comments Mel himself has made throughout this controversy and it is not difficult to see why there is a concern among some people.

Even if this concern is a pre-emptive and even unjustified to some extent, it is still understandable especially considering how a quick glance at distant and recent history will teach us that there are many past instances of movies, plays, and other dramas about The Passion that have incited acts of antisemitism. It is very true that none of this would matter if there were no antisemitic people in the world and that this movie will most likely not convert anyone to a life of antisemtism. But the fear seems to be that it will 'incite' or give a spark to what already exists out there if the movie is not done with sensitivity to these issues. No one is forcing Mel to change the movie and no one is asking for the bible to be changed, they are only suggesting that we must be careful, for the welfare of many people, when we attempt to portray these biblical events.

One final point, comparisons of Foxman and the ADL to Falwell and the likes are completely erroneous. The ADL is a watchdog group that was created with the purpose of being ultra-sensitive to antisemitic issues, therefore, their 'hate' alarms go off before most other people even know something is on the horizon. While this is an extreme, in the sense that they are not necessarily speaking for the Jewish people as a whole, it is different then the type of extremist thinking that we are likely to find with Falwell and his kind. A correct comparison would compare Falwell to an ultra-orthodox Jewish leader or spokesperson, which the ADL is not.
Old 02-04-04, 06:10 PM
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I hope Mel changes his mind.
Old 02-07-04, 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by BRIAN 1972
But then again, the EXTREME Catholics don't run hollywood. There....I said it.
you seem to know the people that run hollywood. so please, let me know who they are. i'm curious.
Old 02-07-04, 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by Groucho
Most of it is because Gibson's father is a Holocaust denier. It shouldn't even be a factor, but people are taking it out on Mel and the film. If the exact same film were made with another director at the helm, you wouldn't see all the controversy.
What I find interesting is the folks (the small minority) who say that this film is terrible, and especially to remove the line "His blood be on us and on our children," but at the same time, they decry Gibson because of HIS FATHER!

i.e. they are DOING exactly what they say they are afraid will happen - to blame the children and descendants for the actions of their ancestors.
Old 02-07-04, 03:14 PM
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Lesterlong, you are a moron and I think its about time you find a new place to discuss films...(your post may have been deleted, but it was seen)
Old 02-07-04, 05:05 PM
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Lesterlong got banned for his hate speech post. I'll remind everyone of this which you agreed on when joining the forum:

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use the DVD Talk Forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law
Old 02-08-04, 03:58 AM
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what did LL say? i dont mean verbatim, but i'm curious as to what he said. was it anti-jewish or anti-catholic? or anti-something else?
Old 02-08-04, 06:42 AM
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If you believe that the Jews killed Jesus, then you also have to believe that Jesus rose from the dead.
So they didn't kill him.
It's the Nazies, Klu Klux Klan, terrorists that are going to say & twist anything to spread hate againest Jews and there's nothing to change their mind.
If you think about it, if between Jesus & Satan only Satan wouldn't want you to see this movie.
And would want the movie changed as much as possible.
Old 02-08-04, 07:26 PM
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As discussed in the previous topic regarding this movie, what worried a lot of Jewish people from the start were initial interviews with Mel where he made comments about how his movie would set the record straight and place blame truely where it belonged.

I also read recently in the LA Times that Mel was asked to describe just who was stirring up trouble against his movie and he claimed it was Satanists and people under the influence of Satan.

Scarey stuff.
Old 02-08-04, 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Peep
As discussed in the previous topic regarding this movie, what worried a lot of Jewish people from the start were initial interviews with Mel where he made comments about how his movie would set the record straight and place blame truely where it belonged.

I also read recently in the LA Times that Mel was asked to describe just who was stirring up trouble against his movie and he claimed it was Satanists and people under the influence of Satan.

Scarey stuff.
How is that scary stuff?
Old 02-08-04, 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Peep
As discussed in the previous topic regarding this movie, what worried a lot of Jewish people from the start were initial interviews with Mel where he made comments about how his movie would set the record straight and place blame truely where it belonged.

I also read recently in the LA Times that Mel was asked to describe just who was stirring up trouble against his movie and he claimed it was Satanists and people under the influence of Satan.

Scarey stuff.
Yeah, thats what I was referring to in my previous post, when I alluded to "icky" things Mel has said...and he has had several other borderline 'icky' interviews....
Old 02-09-04, 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Scot1458
How is that scary stuff?
Uh.... initially claiming that the point of the movie was to blame the Jews for Christ's crucifixion and then equating any Jews who did complain with Satanists.
Old 02-09-04, 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Peep
As discussed in the previous topic regarding this movie, what worried a lot of Jewish people from the start were initial interviews with Mel where he made comments about how his movie would set the record straight and place blame truely where it belonged.

I also read recently in the LA Times that Mel was asked to describe just who was stirring up trouble against his movie and he claimed it was Satanists and people under the influence of Satan.

Scarey stuff.
If you don't mind, can you provide a link to that article or copy and paste the whole article?
Old 02-09-04, 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by jayson1017
If you don't mind, can you provide a link to that article or copy and paste the whole article?
I'm not sure which paragraph you're asking about. The first paragraph was covered in the previous "PAssion" topic and posted all of the links that I had in various replies there.

The second paragraph is referring to an article that I read in the past couple of weeks in the Times and I don't have a link for it. If anybody has access to their database, a simple search of "Gibson" and "Satanists" should probably return it.

There were also a couple of Times articles recently about how Mel's people attributed a quote to the Pope (something like "That was as it was") that the Vatican vehemently denies.

Also of interest is how Mel has gone on record claiming that, ever since Vatican II, the Roman Catholic church has been run by the Jews and the Masons and how every Pope since then has been a fraud. Is this the impartial guy you want putting out the "definitive" version of Christ's last 12 hours?
Old 02-09-04, 07:55 PM
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If you thought that Sony was bad, using quotes from fake reviewers for some of their movies, making up a quote from the Pope has got to be slightly worse.



Still, the fact that you deny the legitimacy of the Pope and still think he's important enough to be making up fake quotes from him has got to tell you a lot about Mel Gibscum.
Old 02-09-04, 08:08 PM
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I can't believe anyone can say that Mel has no integrity with this project.

That's awful. Some of the feedback here shows how two-faced this country is. If it was a movie that shows how the Jewish people were not involved in the crucifixion at all it would be hailed as one of the most historically accurate films of all time.

Have a religion that's also a majority in this country and you better shut yer mouth about what you believe.
Old 02-09-04, 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Giles
not to go off too much of a tangent here, but I find it amazing that the Hollywood hypocracy gives the impression that it's okay to be anti-Catholic, yet being anti-Semitic is wrong. Example: the Michael Caine movie "The Statement" where he plays an ex-Nazi harboured and protected by ultra-conservative Catholic priests. The finger is firmly pointed at the Catholic Church here as being the antagonist. Do Catholics get all angry and bothered by the depiction of the Church, no, they should, but they don't. Does the Jewish community get angry over "The Passion of Christ", yes. Not only over content, but by the director as well (as Groucho noted).
I agree with this post 100%. I find it very curious how some particular directors are being looked upon as "the sourse of truth" when certain historic events are being discussed (Shindler's List comes to mind) yet when another sensitive topic has been explored as a film subject everyone is upset because of the image that a certain religious group is attched to. Coincidence? Hardly think so...intelligent dialog with tese people is impossible to maintain.

With this said- I HOPE Mel does not alter anything so he pleases certain religious groups. No one should be held accountable for someone else's actions...even if that happens to be their own father. As to the veracity of the events showcased in the film...respect the view of the creator, even if you happen to disagree with it and thought that IT does not meet YOUR religious expectations. It is all about pluralism.
Old 02-09-04, 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by pro-bassoonist
With this said- I HOPE Mel does not alter anything so he pleases certain religious groups. No one should be held accountable for someone else's actions...even if that happens to be their own father. As to the veracity of the events showcased in the film...respect the view of the creator, even if you happen to disagree with it and thought that IT does not meet YOUR religious expectations. It is all about pluralism.
Even if those 'certain religious groups' happen to include the Roman Catholic Church? Everyone seems focused on how upset the Jews are but no one seems to be mentioning the the Roman Catholic leadership is very concerned about the bias contained in this movie.
Old 02-09-04, 10:24 PM
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Man, some of you guys are really beginning to scare me.
Old 02-09-04, 10:39 PM
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Peep wrote:
If you thought that Sony was bad, using quotes from fake reviewers for some of their movies, making up a quote from the Pope has got to be slightly worse.
Very true, I have seen production companies and their marketers use a wide variety of borderline exploitative techniques before but exploiting the Pope? Of course we don't know for sure that this was their intention, but judging by the reaction of the Pope's representatives it sure smacks of it...


Pro-bassoonist wrote:
respect the view of the creator, even if you happen to disagree with it and thought that IT does not meet YOUR religious expectations. It is all about pluralism.
In a perfect world I would agree with this, however, I take the position that the 'creator' must earn my reespect, it is not unconditional. And these conditions of gaining my respect do not have to include that 'I agree with the creator' and it doesn't need to 'meet my religious expectations'. However, the piece of art (whatever it is) should not purport to be something it is not, should not claim objectivity if that is impossible, should be created in a way that can express the message while also minimizing any possible adverse consequences that the 'art' may have (i.e. incite hatred or violence), the art should not be made with any (even subtle or indirect) malaise or cruel intentions. These are just a few of the standards that I have before I will give my respect to someone. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying definitively whether or not any of these are actually true about this film, I will reserve that judgement until I have a chance to view it myself. However, as I stated in an earlier post, there are many indications from Mel, interviewes, reviews, etc. that paint a picture that, in the very least, I can understand why their is so much worry about this film. (if you are curious about what I am referring to, take a peek at my somewhat lengthy earlier post).
Old 02-09-04, 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by DarkestPhoenix
Have a religion that's also a majority in this country and you better shut yer mouth about what you believe.
Catholicism, especially the sect of which Mel practices, is not in the majority.
Old 02-10-04, 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by dave-o
Catholicism, especially the sect of which Mel practices, is not in the majority.
I guess when you're like me, a Christian, and all you have to do is believe and accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross to save you and that is all it takes to get into Heaven...

Sorry, but regardless of the delightful eccentricities that cause the churches to skewer off into their own religions, at the core they ARE the same religion.

(eg-I don't say that Lutherans and Quakers are members of separate religions. I don't think most Christians do.)

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