talemyn

I saw Unforgiven back when it was released and was supremely disappointed int it. I didn't understand how Clint Eastwood's character could struggle the whole movie with living up to a vow that he made in honor of his wife and then, at the end, go nuts killing everyone in sight, only to conclude the movie as if it never happened. I just don't get it. How could you go against something that he has made such a huge part of his life, and then have it cause no visible impact on his life? I thought it was a mosterous plot flaw and it really destroyed the movie for me.

Note: Like I said, I haven't seen it since it came out, some I might be remembering some of the details wrong.

That being said . . . I see a lot of people talking about how much they loved it and what a great movie it was, so it makes me wonder if I missed something. Anyone care to share with me what it was about the movie that they liked so much?

Thanks . . .

The Nature Boy

Well, in my belief, it's always gotten a bit of false praise. If only because Eastwood's character is an ALMOST unofficial sequel to the The Man With No Name. Probably the closest he's gotten back to that character, besides possibly Pale Rider. So I think people crafted a detailed backstory of Eastwood as a Western Icon in evaluating this film, and probably their mind connected the dots to depth that may not have been there if it were a stand alone film with another actor.

So I think the best way to appreicate it is to watch the Leone trilogy and then not be afraid to have that in your mind when you watch Unforgiven. I saw Unforgiven on it's original release and didn't care for it, and I definately didn't get the hype, but after seeing more Eastwood westerns, it became a much cooler movie to me, subconsciously or not, as it's a powerful coda to his western career.

badger1997

I can't really help you "get" or appreciate a film anymore than you already do. I think if you didn't like Unforgiven, it's just something that probably wasn't to your taste. No need really to agonize over it.

That being said, my take on your question is that Eastwood discovered that although it is honorable to not go around killing people for no reason whatsoever, sometimes in the old West there came times when it was the only acceptable way to handle a problem. This guy is a killer and it seems to me he was fighting to change his way of living for the love of his wife and their kids. But it was still in him and when pushed too far and seeing his friend killed in cold blood, he did what had to be done.

I don't think it had to have a monstrous impact on his life (at least no more so than all the killing he had done earlier in his life before settling down.) He did what he had to do to avenge his friend's death and now he can go back to his own life. He's still not the same man he was when he was younger, but he's also not trying to be the cowardly pig farmer he was in the beginning of the film. He's somewhere in between by the end of the film.

QuiGonJosh

Just watch the movie...thats about all you can do dude...

talemyn

I'm not worried or upset about it or anything . . . I'm just curious as to what it is that people see that make them like it so much. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if other people like the things that I disliked or if there was something that I missed. Frankly, it's rare that I watch a movie in which I can't enjoy something in it. Given the genre and the cast, I was really suprised that I didn't like it. Thought that some outside insight might help.

Plus, I never turn down the opportunity to enjoy something new . . . especially if it's a movie.


P.S. - I guess I could have just titled the thread "What did you like about Unforgiven?", but that is just so standard.

funkyryno

I enjoyed it because it had a sense of realism that most westerns do not have. Everyone was dirty and poor, and Clint couldn't shoot anything with his pistol because he had lost his eyesite. I thought the psychology of the gunfight was pretty cool, too. Most people would panic, but Clint survived in his gunfights because he didn't panic, not because he was a fast draw or a great shot.

TREX1993

If you're looking for a more deep explanation than what a couple quick posts can provide (with all due respect to DVD Talk posters, myself included), listen to the commentary on the recent 10th Anniversary release DVD. It goes into a lot of depth on how Unforgiven is the anti-western, deconstructing the mythology of not only the cinematic old West but also of the historical West as well.

gutwrencher

thanks talemyn....I now know what to watch tonight. couldnt find a thing until I caught yer post over yonder. it's not my fav western...but I just like the story, the pacing and the acting. it's been a good year or so since last watching it so nows a good time to blow the dust off.

cruzness

Here's my take on it. The movie shows that the reality of the wild west is diifferent from the tales told by men. The movie is about a man struggling with his inner demons and almost triumphing over them. William Munney always had said that drinking was what lead to him doing the things he did and his redemption was his now dead wife. If you notice he really doesn't want to give in to his bloodlust until his murdered best friends body is put in front of a bar as a warning to other outlaws (Remember Freeman was technically innocent since he couldn't shoot the guy in the canyon and he was headed home when he was apprehended. Munney felt responsible for his death since he was the one who had killed the guy in the canyon, and Freeman was tortured in order for Little Bill to find information on Munney.) Munney didn't start drinking until he learned the fate of Freeman because he knew alcohol would make him lose control. He walks away from the bar almost unscathed because of the fear he injects into anyone whom he hasn't shot with his statements and his reputation. (I'll kill your family and your neighbor's family) He walks away into his old life because killing is something he doesn't want to do.
I loved the performances in the film. It was shot very well. and had a gritty, almost savage reailty that was cool to see.

jekbrown

agree with everything cruz just said... Im not sure what is so far fetched about a guy going against something he seems to have invested in emotionally and ideologically. It happens in real life... and in the film it takes some pretty serious trama for it to happen (ned getting wacked)... and even when Munny does revert... its obvious that its only to get revenge for Ned... he's not gonna go on being a psycho. In that sense he has moved on from being the gun fighter / killer type... but at the same time its always a part of him and inside his psyche. I thought it was fantastic... and the rest of the cast did an admirable job as well... ESPECIALLY gene hackman who for some reason I could never see as an old-west type until I saw unforgiven and afterwards it seemed totally natural. pretty much the sign of a great performance imo...

j

wm lopez

I saw it the 1st weekend when it came out.
I couldn't wait to see after reading the great reviews.
And I was bored thru the whole movie, except at the end.
I did think Eastwoods' performance at the end was the meanest he's ever been.
Have a poll on which movie is better OUTLAW JOSIE WHALES or UNFORGIVEN .
But OUTLAW didn't half the praise that UNFORGIVEN has gotten.

talemyn

Wait a second . . . 1324 titles in your DVDAf list and you "couldn't find a thing"?!?!



Thanks for the insights, everyone. Maybe I just need to watch it again . . . after all it has been a while. Still, any other thoughts are still appreciated.

das Monkey

I recommend you watch it again. I saw it when it came out, and while I liked it, I just thought it was "good" and was perplexed by all the praise it received. I always knew I needed to see it again (it was during a family gettogether that I saw it, so I wondered if I was just in a bad frame of mind). For whatever reason, it wasn't until the DVD release that I finally forced myself to watch it again, and to the credit of those who always said so, it was really fantastic. Perhaps 10 years more life helped me appreciate it better, perhaps when I saw it was just one of those days, but regardless of the reason, I'm very happy I gave it a second chance. It's a ho-kicking good time.

das

talemyn

Damn!! You're doing better with my New Years Resolution than I am.

MISS PEACH

This was excellent Trex. You know, Unforgiven is one of the most difficult movies for me to pin down why, exactly, I love it so much. Usually you can point to camera technique, acting, the screenplay . . . Unforgiven operates on a really nuanced level (or it does for me, anyway). It's one of those rare times in cinematic history where the Director trusts his audience to get not just the plot of the film but its more subliminal themes without explaining it to them.

You find this in the better literature — where the impulse to reduce complicated themes/characters to one-dimensional caricatures that the general public can be mollified with is mercifully resisted. This is indeed the anti-Western, as Trex said — try thinking of it in terms of those shadows that play behind the action, what wasn't said, choices that weren't made.

I know this is crude but my inability to ever completely get my arms around Unforgiven is precisely why it is so durable. Clint Eastwood's best directorial debut, and (many feel, myself included) a radical fork in the road, taking the entire Western genre in a bold new direction.

One last thing: This was Eastwood's Love Letter to the Western Genre. Whatever else you feel about this film, his affection for the genre is almost heartbreaking in this, his Last Scene (for a Western) and there is a Larger Than Life aspect to the film that comes from the dynamic between Clint and his supporting cast. Only superb directing can accomplish this, and (for me) Eastwood codified his legitimacy as a director with this one film. Edgy. Gorgeous. If I didn't want The Color Purple so badly (for my free (SE) Warners DVD) I would have gotten Unforgiven in a heartbeat. I still may.

MISS PEACH

RyoHazuki

How can you have a best directorial debut?

Tarnower

I'm so glad you have joined the forum, MISS PEACH. I have to say that every time I see a post from you, I make a point of reading it. Your posts are almost always interesting, funny, articulate and intelligent (not necessarily in that order). Plus, your use of icons always makes me smile.

garolo

Peach,
Did you mean to say "Clint Eastwood's best since his directorial debut ..."? (which was 25 years or so prior.)

Grimm1

I was gonna say just about the same thing but you probably put it in words better then I so I will just say that I agree with the above.

Look up the defintion of a mean drunk in the dictionary and you will see a picture of William Munney.

Spooky

Eastwood has been quoted as saying the reason Unforgiven appealed to him was because many Westerns have been about a bad guy who sees the error of his ways and turns good. In Unforgiven, we have a reformed guy who turns back to evil - that's why Eastwood wanted to do the movie.

MISS PEACH

BUZZER! You caught me out! ha ha
(runs from the room in profound shame, clutching her Bachelor's Degree in English)

Thanks RyoHazuki. Obviously it was not Clint's debut. What didn't translate in my post was that I felt it was his debut as a Legitimate Director. And oh. The posts I'll get from that comment ha ha.

MISS TAKE

MISS PEACH

Awwwww. What a Sweetie Pie you are Tarnower!

Well, I'm a writer honey. That's what you get from us: Verbosity ha ha. And I do need to practice my HTML. Juuuuuuuuuuust kidding.

MISS TAKE

MISS PEACH

Yes. Noted. Table for One. Me.

MISS TAKE

MISS PEACH

That was good Spooky.

PEACH

cruzness

YES. You hit it on the head MISS PEACH. There are just so many things I enjoy about this film, but I can't really point out what my favorite thing is.

I must say I read your post and a smile just happened to come from out of nowhere. Wow.