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Old 12-30-03, 08:46 PM   #1
necros
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Alien 3 was great! [spoilers]

So thanks to my new Alien Quadrilogy I finally got to see Alien 3 in it's entirety. I plan to watch disc 2 tomorrow. I've seen bits and pieces on cable before but never knew the whole story. Well I finally saw it tonight and I thought it was great! I was really impressed. I've always heard bad things about it. I remember when it was in the theaters and I was in college, a friend of mine was the biggest Alien fan I've ever known, and he hated it, but would never told me why, he always said I had to see for myself. Generally a almost anyone that talks about it seems to dislike it. But, I really enjoyed it. granted, I watched the "special edition" that is supposed to be better than the theatrical (it really bugged me how the deleted footage had to say "special edition" on it for every single scene), but still.

So why do so many people hate Alien 3? Is it because they were expecting another "this time it's war" movie? or "in space no one can hear you scream" movie? Was it because Newt and Hicks were dead from the get-go? Was it the whole "how the hell did she get a queen in her anyway?" thing? Was it beceause Ripley killed herself? Was it because David Fincher wasn't "cool" until he did Fight Club? None of those things bothered me.

Just wondering what most people thought about it and what's with all the complaints I've always heard about it...
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Old 12-30-03, 09:21 PM   #2
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The Warden steals the show with his incredible voice. But the Alien looks really awful in some scenes. The theatrical version of Ripley's fall into the molten pit is better than the "assembly" cut version.
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Old 12-30-03, 09:51 PM   #3
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I didn't really care for it. I thought it was well acted, intelligent, intense, scary and with great FX----but it was just one of the gloomiest, most depressing sci-fi movies I"ve ever seen. Just too much of a downer for me.
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Old 12-30-03, 09:52 PM   #4
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I never understood why Alien 3 got such a bad rap. Granted, it could have been a lot better (seeing Vincent Ward's design drawings on the Quadrilogy really cemented that for me), but for what it was, it was a stylish and engaging film. I agree that the alien effects were subpar, but not so much that it ruined the movie for me. The only problem I had was that the chestburster just looked like the regular alien, only smaller. I hate it when science fiction films break their own rules, and for no reason.
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Old 12-31-03, 12:04 AM   #5
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I saw the Quadrilogy version and loved it as well. Looking back I think I hated the original one was because of Aliens. Most ppl were expecting a big shootem up type movie(at least in the case of friends and myself). Also, getting use to David Fincher's directing style also helped me enjoy the new version. The dark tones used in his movies are very present in A3, or vice versa. Some small scenes where you'd see blood covered chains, hanging against a wall, reminded me of Se7en for some mundane reason. I've really started to realize how dark and macabre this movie is. With a little more gore and timed sound effects, this movie could have easily be turned into a good horror flick.

One last thing:
Spoiler:
Is it me or did everyone else find that the alien bursting from a cow was better than the dog? I found it ridiculous when I first saw A3 that the dog simply exploded, and an alien that was easily 2/3 its size, appeared.


Overall, I rank this movie my 2nd Fav, behind Aliens. Sorry but I watched the Alien DC and I thought it was just OK.
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Old 12-31-03, 12:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ky-Fi
I thought it was well acted, intelligent, intense, scary and with great FX----but it was just one of the gloomiest, most depressing sci-fi movies I"ve ever seen.
This is exactly why 3 is my favorite of the series.
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Old 12-31-03, 12:16 AM   #7
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I hated it.
Because the killing of Newt & Hicks after all that hell they went thru in the last movie get killed off right in the beginning of this movie. And at the end Riply dies.
And the movie had more boring than thrill parts also.
Of course there are people who like this movie just like there are people who like GODFATHER 3, SUPERMAN 3 etc.
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Old 12-31-03, 07:22 AM   #8
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Originally posted by wm lopez
Of course there are people who like this movie just like there are people who like GODFATHER 3, SUPERMAN 3 etc.
Of course there are people who dislike this movie just like there are people who dislike Citiczen Kane, Apocolypse Now, The Godfather etc.
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Old 12-31-03, 07:50 AM   #9
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When I first saw Alien3 it was right after seeing Aliens again so I was expecting another "shoot em up" type thing so I didn't really care for it. After seeing it a couple of times though (I was working in a theater at the time) it started to grow on me. I thought it did a good job of trying to recreate/recapture the futility/gloominess of the first one. After having seeing the SE version though I can say I actually like this more than the original Alien now (esp the DC of that which I really don't care for parts of it). The original was ok for the time but alot of it is just SLOW. The new A3 fills in missing bits of character development and really does a good job of bringing the suspense/horror back into the series. It also gets rid of the Ripley/chestbursting scene of the original A3 cut which was always one of the cheesiest effects/sequences IMHO. For that alone it gets a from me.

Too bad they couldn't do anything w/ Alien 4 though
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Old 12-31-03, 12:15 PM   #10
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It's not my favorite, but I've grown to appreciate it over the years. I actually like it better than Resurrection now. I had to distance myself from the dismissal of the Newt/Hicks charaters. I know these are just characters, but Aliens is probably on my top 10 favorites of all time movies -- I loved the Ripley/Newt relationship and just to have it gone without any thought -- I hated Aliens 3 for that.
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Old 12-31-03, 12:28 PM   #11
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I like it quite a bit. It's easily my second favorite of the series, after Alien. I've never cared for the second one, which IMO is just a mindless action flick, and therefore I couldn't care less about the characters of Newt and Hicks. I'll take David Fincher over James Cameron any day.
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Old 12-31-03, 12:41 PM   #12
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I always thought this film got unfairly criticized by fans because it dared to be different. It's nice to see some people coming around toward my view that I have held since 92. I look forward to seeing the alternate cut of the film.
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Old 12-31-03, 12:55 PM   #13
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Hicks/Newt... I felt cheated at the beginning of Alien3. The funeral was cheesy. And I wasn't a fan of the CG Alien. Tho I do remember working at Boss Films and seeing the maquette they used. At the time, it was something new, but it looked bad.

Roc was cool tho, epecially when he takes on the alien in the pit. Ripley I understood had nothing left to live for. And I liked Charles Dance.
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Old 12-31-03, 01:27 PM   #14
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Well, maybe I was too "into" the movie to really notice the bad effects. Thinking back yeah some of it looked a little too "added in". But then... in 92 there wasn't a whole lot of CGI like there is now. I think for the time it came out and all that, it was good enough for me.

At the end, was the new Bishop an android or was he really the real guy? What throws me off is when he gets socked in the head and his ear is like falling off... but, there's no skim milk everywhere to suggest he's a robot, but if he were real and his ear was hanging off I don't think he'd be standing there like nothing happened... And I guess one other thing now that I think about it, it woulda been cool if they at least made the guns at the end sound like the guns from Aliens. They looked the same, but they sounded more "normal".
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Old 12-31-03, 04:08 PM   #15
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There wasn't much that Fincher could do in regard to the Newt/Hicks scenario as the supplements clearly indicate that the script had gone through numerous incarnations previous to him being attached to it and he was shooting with it still in the process of it being written. Speed and costs were of primary concern to Fox by this point. Additionally, Weaver and Fox both agreed and liked the aspect of Ripley being left alone and isolated in the third installment and Weaver clearly wanted Ripley to die at the end of the film. I'm assuming only the prospect of massive pay is the reason she continues to be interested in the franchise and hence the reason for the deplorable Resurrection. Just so everyone's aware, the alien wasn't CGI as CGI technology wasn't really up and running in any major sense at that particular point in time. If you had looked at the supplements, you'd know that the only use of CGI was when the alien had water doused on it. The rest of the film was a combination of puppet and bluescreen work. Additionally, it's quite clearly stated once Hendrikson arrives that he was the inventor of the Bishop android and not an android himself. Once he's struck over the head he even screams something to this effect out to Ripley to emphasize the point.

PS. Color me pleased as hell that the ridiculous studio mandated chestbursting scene at the end has finally been removed.
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Old 12-31-03, 04:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ky-Fi
I didn't really care for it. I thought it was well acted, intelligent, intense, scary and with great FX----but it was just one of the gloomiest, most depressing sci-fi movies I"ve ever seen. Just too much of a downer for me.
Exactly why I love it! The fantastic music certainly didn't hurt, either.
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Old 12-31-03, 04:13 PM   #17
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Yeah I caught that at the end with Bishop, I think he yelled I'm Human or something like that .. but then the whole left side of his head is flopping around like a piece of latex. I dunno if it was a bad makeup job or what To me it just made him really being human seem like it was some kinda lie/trick. I haven't watched the 2nd disc yet though, i prolly will tonight or tomorrow
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Old 12-31-03, 05:02 PM   #18
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Top Five Reasons Why Alien Cubed Sucks:


1: The killing of Newt and Hicks. I don't know what possessed Fincher into thinking this was in any way a good idea, and it most certainly was his idea, but because of it I will always credit him the one who forever tarnished this story. The Alien saga could've gone into endlessly fascinating and original directions, and the ideas that were first being considered for this second sequel sounded fantastic(if anyone can get their hands on that scipt where Newt and Hicks make it to Earth, it's really cool). Instead Fincher decides to **** on Cameron's classic and make the events in that film ultimately pointless. If Fincher wanted to f*** his film, fine, but he didn't have to hurt the wonderful story progression Cameron brought to the series.

2: Alien Cubed is just a lazy retread of the first with pseudo-religious overtones piled on thick, and this time sans anyone worth giving a damn about. Instead we're given a bunch of interchangeable, faceless bald heads with Brit accents and Roc. The only new character even remotely worth caring about is Clemens, and guess what, Fincher eventually offs him too. It's like the man is intentionally trying to make the audience not care.

3. Lousy Special-Effects. Those effects guys may have thought they'd created something great with that rod puppet but watching the film it's as if the Road Runner makes a cameo every few minutes. The new shot in the DC with the alien running from the ox it has just burst from is the cheesiest **** this side of Velveeta. Makes you wonder, if they actually spent a few bucks to create that scene then why didn't they fix up the blatantly obvious matte lines in every scene with the cartoon alien?

4. A facehugger could have never crashed the Sulaco. What, did the Queen quickly grab an egg before Ripley could blow it up with that flamethrower, keep it in her backpocket then stick it on the wall in plain view for all to see? After what happened in Film 1 you'd think Ripley would check the ship, give it a run-through before actually going to sleep. And what caused the facehugger to bleed? Ah, who cares. Fincher clearly doesn't so his thinking must've been why should we?

5: There is little suspense or clarity in the final sequence where the inmates are leading the alien to that room with the piston. The scene is so haphazardly shot and put together the viewer simply stops trying to make sense of where everyone is located in relation to others and just watches endless scenes of alien POV shots. These distorted shots are supposed to show the viewer what the alien is seeing as he runs up and down the corridors, nevermind the fact that the xenomorph DOES NOT SEE THINGS VISUALLY, as it has no eyes. Add to that the fact that there is no way these bald Brits could outrun the creature, and the over-reliance on the alien's POV, and this sequence just makes one wish Bruce Campbell would suddenly pop out of nowhere with a chainsaw for a hand and dice the alien along with all of the inmates.
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Old 12-31-03, 05:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rivero
Top Five Reasons Why Alien Cubed Sucks:


1: The killing of Newt and Hicks. I don't know what possessed Fincher into thinking this was in any way a good idea, and it most certainly was his idea, but because of it I will always credit him the one who forever tarnished this story. The Alien saga could've gone into endlessly fascinating and original directions, and the ideas that were first being considered for this second sequel sounded fantastic(if anyone can get their hands on that scipt where Newt and Hicks make it to Earth, it's really cool). Instead Fincher decides to **** on Cameron's classic and make the events in that film ultimately pointless. If Fincher wanted to f*** his film, fine, but he didn't have to hurt the wonderful story progression Cameron brought to the series.
Once again, since you obviously haven't read the entire thread, there wasn't much that Fincher could do in regard to the Newt/Hicks scenario, and it most certainly wasn't his idea as the supplements clearly indicate. The script had gone through numerous incarnations previous to him being attached to it, and he was in the midst of shooting while it was still in the process of being written. Speed and costs were of primary concern to Fox by this point and they were not interested in signing up a first time film directer who wished to take the film in a completely different direction since they had already spent a tremendous amount of time and money on pre-production, set construction etc. Additionally, Weaver and Fox both had already agreed to and liked the aspect of Ripley being left alone and isolated in the third installment way before Fincher's involvement. Considering these "facts", your polemic against Fincher in respect to these issues seems entirely misdirected me thinks...
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Old 01-01-04, 12:25 AM   #20
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Once again, since you obviously haven't read the entire thread, there wasn't much that Fincher could do in regard to the Newt/Hicks scenario, and it most certainly wasn't his idea as the supplements clearly indicate. The script had gone through numerous incarnations previous to him being attached to it, and he was in the midst of shooting while it was still in the process of being written.
Who cares whose decision it was? The decision was made by someone and it stunk. I don't really mind defending Fincher or attaking him, I thought we were talking about Alien3. For that reason it sucked it alone.

The basic premise of Alien3 is flawed for the reasons pointed out in this thread and the several hundred of times before. The whole beginning is a cheap cop out, and an implausible one at that.

I love Fincher's other films - esp. Game and Fight Club. But everyone uses those films success as a way of excusing Alien3. I am not bashing Fincher - I just think Alien3 sucks.

Even with the new version - which lets get this straight - is NOT the theaterical version of the film, the rest of the cast is interchangeable and don't mean anything.

The whole key to both Alien and Aliens was that the secondary characters meant something - Parker, Brett, Dallas, Lambert,Ash (Alien) and Hicks, Vasquez, Capone, Gorman, etc (Aliens). So when they got nailed, it hurt. Alien3 had nothing - an unsympathetic bunch of convicts with some kind of wacked out Chrisitianity mixed in with fistcuffs. The most interesting character, as noted before was Clemons, but he gets nailed pretty early on.

Some "apologists" here have claimed that Sigourney Weaver was responsible - DAMN RIGHT she was, and she has made horrible decisions in Alien3 and Alien4.

Uugh. I can't stand how crappy movies like Alien3, get "re-appreciated" just because they were crap to start with!@!!
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Old 01-01-04, 01:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rivero
Top Five Reasons Why Alien Cubed Sucks:

That pretty much sums it up.

The production was a disaster from start to finish and Fincher himself is on record as being embarrassed at the end result. The studio basically took the movie from him (could you blame them?), re shot and re-edited entire sequences how they saw fit. Not that it would have turned out any better had Fincher had total control.
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Old 01-01-04, 02:18 AM   #22
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Who cares whose decision it was?
Apparently Rivero cared which is why my post was directed specifically to him. I simply thought a little edification informing him of the facts pertaining to this misguided portion of his rant were in order. As for the rest of your post, for the most part, we're in agreement.
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Old 01-02-04, 02:00 PM   #23
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is there any possible logical explaination as to how ripley got the egg inside her?

did newt have a alien inside of her during the trip?
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Old 01-03-04, 12:45 PM   #24
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I think that Chanster has a pretty good point in that if any other director had made the same exact Alien 3 film as David Fincher, there would not be this whole revisionist history of it being "as good as the first Alien" or whatever (same goes for if David Fincher had made this, but not followed up with the Game and Seven and Fight Club). For the most part, I'm a fan of the man and I know that this could have been brilliant without the medlesome suits at Fox, but the end result, regardless of who is at fault, is deeply flawed. The new cut adds layers, which is good, but still... Just my opinion on the matter.
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Old 01-03-04, 05:13 PM   #25
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Originally posted by chanster
Uugh. I can't stand how crappy movies like Alien3, get "re-appreciated" just because they were crap to start with!@!!
Perhaps some of us actually liked the theatrical cut of the film, and like the assembly cut even more? That is possible, you realize. I liked Alien 3 quite a bit, and the assembly cut makes it a lot better. Personally, I DON'T think the inmates are interchangeable. I cared about most of them more than, say, Lambert in Alien.

As for the Newt/Hicks thing, Weaver herself said she loved the idea that the aliens take away everything she's ever loved. It sets the tone for the film, and gives her an impetus to sacrifice herself at the end. Perhaps if Cameron had done the sequel, he would have found a way to take the series in a new direction while still keeping Newt and Hicks, but considering a lot of the pre-Fincher and Ward screenplays I've read, it seems like people were either going to retread Aliens, or take the series in such a weird, out of left field direction that it would have ended up like Resurrection (I seem to remember one script where the aliens are genetically modified and start to spawn with spores. This goes against the entire idea for the alien in the first place, which was always that of a sexual invasion of the body). For my money, Ward had the best ideas and could have made an interesting and worthy follow-up to Aliens, but as it currently stands, Alien 3 isn't too terrible. Sorry to make you gnash your teeth in anger, but I always liked it and now, with the assembly cut, I will like it even more.
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