"Repressed hobbit homoeroticism"

caiman · 12-11-03, 04:53 PM

I've read just about every ROTK review posted on the internet so far, and a handful of them have mentioned, in an otherwise serious context, the "homosexual" undertone of the hobbits. Here is one example, and I've seen it mentioned in about 3 or 4 other reviews.

Ok, I understand how it's sorta funny to imagine the scenario in a purely facetious way; those diary entries posted here a few days ago really cracked me up. But I just can't believe professional movie critics are putting this bullshit in their reviews. Maybe it's just society's current fascination with, and hyper sensitivity to homosexuality. If two men have a close relationship, they're obviously gay, right?

Peter Jackson's intentions were NOT to hint at a sexual relationship between Sam and Frodo, and I'm pretty ****ing sure it wasn't Tolkien's either. But in this day and age, people can't seem to accept that two males can have a close, loving relationship purely as friends. Tolkien's purpose for the hobbits was to represent purity, innocence, and friendship. Making ridiculous statements like this in a professional review totally undermines the work of both Jackson and Tolkien.

I'm finished.

Kal-El · 12-11-03, 05:26 PM

Reading the Mount Doom chapter of the book clinched my position on this.

Inverse · 12-11-03, 06:51 PM

This isn't a symptom of society's current obsession with homosexuality, but rather the opposite. It's a relic of the days when homosexuality was hushed up, and so being able to find secret signs of it in the media (real or imagined) appealed to the adolecent side of all of us that finds sexual secrets luridly fascinating

Now that discussion of homosexuality is commonplace in the media, you'd think that reviewers would be able to move beyond the "I know a secret" s******ing and admit that not every single important relationship between human beings has to be primarily sexual.

(Do gay reviewers yammer on about the "repressed hetroeroticism" between the main characters of Will And Grace? Just wondering.)

Jackskeleton · 12-12-03, 12:16 AM

damn.. if only I had my photoshopped image.

Giantrobo · 12-12-03, 01:29 AM

We talked about this in a big thread between FOTR and TTT....

dcswirl · 12-12-03, 05:32 AM

I can't believe this is being discussed.

devilshalo · 12-12-03, 11:00 AM

Well, towards the end of ROTK, there are 3 scenes in which I kept expecting Frodo and Sam to smooch.

DonnachaOne · 12-12-03, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dcswirl
I can't believe this is being discussed.

Why?

DeputyDave · 12-12-03, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by caiman
I've read just about every ROTK review posted on the internet so far, and a handful of them have mentioned, in an otherwise serious context, the "homosexual" undertone of the hobbits. Here is one example, and I've seen it mentioned in about 3 or 4 other reviews.

"If you were to play dungeons and dragons for 12 hours straight, eat a wheel of brie and knock yourself out with a hammer, your dreams might look something like this."

Spiky · 12-12-03, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inverse
(Do gay reviewers yammer on about the "repressed hetroeroticism" between the main characters of Will And Grace? Just wondering.)

Excellent! People need to get over the gay thing. Homophobia still dominates so many people it's insane.

Kal-El · 12-12-03, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DonnachaOne
Why?

Perhaps because it's so obvious so as not to even merit discussion?

dcswirl · 12-12-03, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DonnachaOne
Why?

Because everyone knows they are close friends. Is there something wrong with that? Sam is in love with Rosie anyway, so why is this even being discussed? Ridiculous.

caiman · 12-12-03, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dcswirl
Because everyone knows they are close friends. Is there something wrong with that? Sam is in love with Rosie anyway, so why is this even being discussed? Ridiculous.

No, everyone DOESN'T seem to know they are just friends. That's my whole point with this thread. Yes, common sense tells us that Sam and Frodo are just friends, but there are many critics who seem to think there is some hidden undercurrent of homosexuality. That's why we're discussing this.

dcswirl · 12-13-03, 03:07 AM

Who are these supposed critics you speak of?? I guess Merry and Pippin are lovers too now. Oh wait, didn't Aragorn and Legolas touch each other on the shoulder and look into each other's eyes? I guess they're in love too.

DRG · 12-13-03, 10:07 PM

They're no gayer than Siegfried and Roy!

silentbob007 · 12-15-03, 07:00 AM

Gee ... this seems like familiar ground. It's a mixture of friendship/bond between two guys, and people seeing/reading what they want to.

Giantrobo · 12-15-03, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DRG
They're no gayer than Siegfried and Roy!

...or Gandalf

DodgingCars · 12-16-03, 05:44 PM

Everyone knows that in order for two guys to express their love for each other in a hetereosexual way they need to beat each other up...

Rogue588 · 12-21-03, 12:52 AM

necros · 12-21-03, 12:59 AM

You should try reading the book. "gay" and "queer" are in like every other paragraph..

Philip Reuben · 12-21-03, 09:40 AM

Intentional or otherwise, every interaction between Merry and Pippin in this movie was loaded with homosexual subtext. Not the kind of behaviour that explicitly confirms (or denies) that they're gay, but the kind of behaviour that makes it really, really easy to write slash fanfiction. (You guys are aware of the huge Lord of the Rings slash fanbase, right?)

I didn't really feel the same way about Frodo and Sam *shrug* I can kinda see it I guess, but it doesn't jump out at me the same way it did with Merry and Pippin. (As a side note, thanks to ROTK I finally know which one in the movies is Merry and which one is Pippin XD)

All these threads, and this is the only one I can be bothered to comment in

It was a great movie, I think I'm still on too much of a high from it too much to comment on how much I liked it...

chanster · 12-21-03, 08:24 PM

I agree, all of the scenes in all of the movies between Sam and Frodo seem very homoerotic to me. And it just isn't me, all my friends said the same thing.

Sierra Disc · 12-21-03, 09:13 PM

I think people who see homoeroticism in LOTR are revealing a lot more about themselves than they are about the movie.

fumanstan · 12-21-03, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chanster
I agree, all of the scenes in all of the movies between Sam and Frodo seem very homoerotic to me. And it just isn't me, all my friends said the same thing.

Same here. It's fine if you don't see it, but its obvious that more then a few people do get a hint of homosexuality between them.

gcribbs · 12-21-03, 09:48 PM

I do find it sad that loving and caring relationships between people equal sexual interest.

I guess Peter Jackson could have filmed the characters being indifferent towards each other as a way to prove they were not gay.

Fade in.
Frodo leaves the fellowship and Sam stands on the shore.

Frodo: Sam. Don't. you can't swim!!
Sam: You're right Mr. Frodo. Good Luck in Mordor.

Sam exits stage left.

Fade out.

12-11-03, 04:53 PM	#1
caiman DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 3,811	"Repressed hobbit homoeroticism" I've read just about every ROTK review posted on the internet so far, and a handful of them have mentioned, in an otherwise serious context, the "homosexual" undertone of the hobbits. Here is one example, and I've seen it mentioned in about 3 or 4 other reviews. Ok, I understand how it's sorta funny to imagine the scenario in a purely facetious way; those diary entries posted here a few days ago really cracked me up. But I just can't believe professional movie critics are putting this bullshit in their reviews. Maybe it's just society's current fascination with, and hyper sensitivity to homosexuality. If two men have a close relationship, they're obviously gay, right? Peter Jackson's intentions were NOT to hint at a sexual relationship between Sam and Frodo, and I'm pretty ****ing sure it wasn't Tolkien's either. But in this day and age, people can't seem to accept that two males can have a close, loving relationship purely as friends. Tolkien's purpose for the hobbits was to represent purity, innocence, and friendship. Making ridiculous statements like this in a professional review totally undermines the work of both Jackson and Tolkien. I'm finished.

12-11-03, 05:26 PM	#2
Kal-El DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Fortress of Solitude Posts: 6,646	Reading the Mount Doom chapter of the book clinched my position on this. __________________ Vader was framed.

12-12-03, 12:16 AM	#4
Jackskeleton DVD Talk Godfather Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca. Posts: 52,228	damn.. if only I had my photoshopped image. __________________ *OTHER FORUM TEAM 7 leader*I will not say them here nor there. I will not say them anywhere. I will not say those Words you twit. I will not, will not sayI quit! Leaving a dark wet stain where your brain used to be? weird..tv? The bank is worth the risk

12-12-03, 01:29 AM	#5
Giantrobo DVD Talk Hero Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: TORRANCE, CA Posts: 48,296	We talked about this in a big thread between FOTR and TTT.... __________________ XBOX Gamertag: Giantrobo On my 4th 360 as of 3.26.10

12-12-03, 05:32 AM	#6
dcswirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Buckeye State Posts: 768	I can't believe this is being discussed. __________________ Liverpool FC You'll Never Walk Alone

12-11-03, 06:51 PM	#3
Inverse Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 578	This isn't a symptom of society's current obsession with homosexuality, but rather the opposite. It's a relic of the days when homosexuality was hushed up, and so being able to find secret signs of it in the media (real or imagined) appealed to the adolecent side of all of us that finds sexual secrets luridly fascinating Now that discussion of homosexuality is commonplace in the media, you'd think that reviewers would be able to move beyond the "I know a secret" s******ing and admit that not every single important relationship between human beings has to be primarily sexual. (Do gay reviewers yammer on about the "repressed hetroeroticism" between the main characters of Will And Grace? Just wondering.)

12-12-03, 11:00 AM	#7
devilshalo DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell Posts: 24,153	Well, towards the end of ROTK, there are 3 scenes in which I kept expecting Frodo and Sam to smooch. __________________ Just once, I would like to be a puppetmaster and have nothing go wrong. Is that too much to ask? - Dwight Schrute

12-13-03, 03:07 AM	#14
dcswirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Buckeye State Posts: 768	Who are these supposed critics you speak of?? I guess Merry and Pippin are lovers too now. Oh wait, didn't Aragorn and Legolas touch each other on the shoulder and look into each other's eyes? I guess they're in love too. __________________ Liverpool FC You'll Never Walk Alone

12-13-03, 10:07 PM	#15
DRG DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: ND Posts: 11,352	They're no gayer than Siegfried and Roy!

12-15-03, 07:00 AM	#16
silentbob007 DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: West Lafayette, IN Posts: 3,986	Gee ... this seems like familiar ground. It's a mixture of friendship/bond between two guys, and people seeing/reading what they want to. __________________ Suave ... Sophisticated ... Silent .... I am a writer. I give the truth scope. Profession: Permanent Student My sad excuse for a blog ....

12-16-03, 05:44 PM	#18
DodgingCars DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: The L.A. Posts: 18,120	Everyone knows that in order for two guys to express their love for each other in a hetereosexual way they need to beat each other up... __________________ My DVDs My Games

12-21-03, 12:52 AM	#19
Rogue588 DVD Talk Reviewer Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: WAS looking for My Own Private Stuckeyville, but stuck in Liberty City (while missing Vice City) Posts: 15,082	__________________ Marshall Mann: "What exactly is your beef with humanity?" Mary Shannon: "I have no beef with humanity. It's the people I can't stand." "I'm not a fan of facts. Facts can change all the time, but my opinion will never change." - Stephen Colbert \| owned \| desired \| ditchin' \| listen Wednesday 10p \|

12-21-03, 12:59 AM	#20
necros Suspended Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 1,754	You should try reading the book. "gay" and "queer" are in like every other paragraph..

12-21-03, 09:40 AM	#21
Philip Reuben Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 464	Intentional or otherwise, every interaction between Merry and Pippin in this movie was loaded with homosexual subtext. Not the kind of behaviour that explicitly confirms (or denies) that they're gay, but the kind of behaviour that makes it really, really easy to write slash fanfiction. (You guys are aware of the huge Lord of the Rings slash fanbase, right?) I didn't really feel the same way about Frodo and Sam shrug I can kinda see it I guess, but it doesn't jump out at me the same way it did with Merry and Pippin. (As a side note, thanks to ROTK I finally know which one in the movies is Merry and which one is Pippin XD) All these threads, and this is the only one I can be bothered to comment in It was a great movie, I think I'm still on too much of a high from it too much to comment on how much I liked it...

12-21-03, 08:24 PM	#22
chanster DVD Talk Hall of Fame Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 9,312	I agree, all of the scenes in all of the movies between Sam and Frodo seem very homoerotic to me. And it just isn't me, all my friends said the same thing.

12-21-03, 09:13 PM	#23
Sierra Disc DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: May 2000 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 5,560	I think people who see homoeroticism in LOTR are revealing a lot more about themselves than they are about the movie.

12-21-03, 09:48 PM	#25
gcribbs DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: Sacramento,Ca,USA member #2634 Posts: 11,866	I do find it sad that loving and caring relationships between people equal sexual interest. I guess Peter Jackson could have filmed the characters being indifferent towards each other as a way to prove they were not gay. Fade in. Frodo leaves the fellowship and Sam stands on the shore. Frodo: Sam. Don't. you can't swim!! Sam: You're right Mr. Frodo. Good Luck in Mordor. Sam exits stage left. Fade out. __________________ Klipsch RF-3II- Front and Surrounds Klipsch RC-35 Center Energy S10.2 Subwoofer Denon 2802