Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > Movie Talk

Movie Talk A Discussion area for everything movie related including films In The Theaters

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-25-03, 02:55 PM   #1
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
Comic Book Hero movies: what they should do an where they have failed

Okay, I am a big fanboy, not a studio exec, so that might kill any sense of reality in terms of what I want. While a lot of people are getting annoyed by the glut in comic book movies, I reall do admire the route Marvel has taken with its adaptations, with the exception of Daredevil.
X-Men and X2 were two great comic book movies IMO. I hope the Spidey sequel holds up, and I'm sure it will because it isn't making the fatal flaw the Batman series did:focusing on the villains.
While Batman was a good movie, having Jack Nicholson as The Joker began the trend of "who would be good as said villain" in lieu of "what should be the next story?" As a result, we got a franchise that was going for media hoopla over "look who we got to play..." Basically, Batman became less about the Dark Knight and more about which A-list actor was playing the villain.
Spider-Man seems to be ducking this problem well. While I am familiar with his work, not many people recognize the name of Alfred Molina (Doc Ock). This is a wise move as it keeps the focus of the movie on Spidey himself, not hammy villain antics. The purpose of a comic book villain is to serve as an opponent whom upon defeating, the hero has made a significant accomplishment, thus adding to his/her story and character. This is where the Batman series failed, it was never about telling the hero's story, it was about the villains with the hero as a subplot. However, it was through proceeding with what they had and adding characters for story value that good sequels like X2 and Superman II succeeded. They were not about some celebrity getting so many million to play a caricature. This is also where I think Daredevil dropped the ball, with both its heroes and villains. You never really saw a story, only rather famous actors running around in tight outfits. (Except Colin Farrell, he did it in a good way.)
In short, let the story be the focus, not the celebrities or stars.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 03:10 PM   #2
Jackskeleton
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 52,658
It's not a simple matter of:

Less Star Power and more Story focus.

You do realize a lot of comic characters are really not marketable to the general public and if you are going to make a Comic book film for a niche market you are setting yourself up for failure.

The writers on Batman were lacking because when it comes down to it.. What can you really do with batman after you told his back story? Especially when it was a sort of revolving door for cast and crew. You really couldn't continue much so they did the next best thing and focused on showing More back stories in the form of new villians with new sub villians. This along with the more comic book look killed the sequels more so by the next film after the next film.

Superman also suffered from this after the second or do I not need to remind you of Superman III? Sure a better story would be nice, but it's a double bladed sword. You get the comic book fan's who say that it's not staying true to the comics and if you do just recreate the comic book story you are just regurgatating old material which most have already seen/heard and that could impact your market.

Most importantly, these are made for a reason.. Profit, so the studio's want to make sure they make the investment back. They can assure this by making just a general big bang for your buck item that really lacks in quality sometimes, but makes up for it in qualitity.

Marvel finally got the films going good. Recall their old Comic titles turned film? Capt. America, Punisher, the Fantastic Four... a lot of crappy stuff there. Now it seems that they will over flood the market with their licensed titles.. Nomar.. yeah, lets see how well that does..
__________________
OTHER FORUM TEAM 7 leaderI will not say them here nor there. I will not say them anywhere. I will not say those Words you twit. I will not, will not sayI quit!
Leaving a dark wet stain where your brain used to be? weird..tv?
The bank is worth the risk
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 03:14 PM   #3
Jackskeleton
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 52,658
Oh yeah, one thing.. What works in the comics really in many ways can't work in a film. X-men had it right to change the outfits because they would have seemed really silly looking if they did a direct transfer. A lot of things such as the way you really can't ever consider a hero/villian dead in the comics doesn't always work in film because even in the world you create in film, you have to have some laws of reality where as in the comics you really could make the soap opera stories work in some fashion.

Lets see how many odd looks folks will get when they see the electra film asking "Didn't she die in DD", even if they left the little open ending in the film.. People believe the world, but they feel like rules are still needed. a character is shown on screen die, it's harder to convince them they really survived that without some sort of GOOD explanation.
__________________
OTHER FORUM TEAM 7 leaderI will not say them here nor there. I will not say them anywhere. I will not say those Words you twit. I will not, will not sayI quit!
Leaving a dark wet stain where your brain used to be? weird..tv?
The bank is worth the risk
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 03:19 PM   #4
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
Jack: I see your point, and I agree that Superman III was a travesty. I must also point out that it tried to beef up returns by placing Richard Pryor in an uncalled for role of little significance.
My argument is more for what to do with Superhero sequels. The Batman and Superman franchise really lost track and got bogged down.
I have no problem with getting a recognizable star for the first movie, but after that, let the story guide the way.
I suppose someone might argue that Hulk would have opened bigger if Tom Cruise had played Bruce Banner, but that wouldn't have made it a better movie. In fact, it might have made it worse.

"They can assure this by making just a general big bang for your buck item that really lacks in quality sometimes, but makes up for it in quality. "

Huh?!?

P.S. I'm talking about the need to focus on story, not how the heroes should look. As long as a movie can capture a comic's spirit, it's great.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects

Last edited by Dr. DVD; 06-25-03 at 03:22 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 03:23 PM   #5
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
P.P.S. Those low budget Marvel adaptations had both a lame story and no faith to the comics.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 03:55 PM   #6
Robert
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,488
If the comic book movie is any less than 100% faithful to the comic book, it will SUCK. End of discussion!!!!!!!!

__________________
DVDs
HD DVD
Blu-ray
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 04:00 PM   #7
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
Did I say it had to be 100% faithful? I just said it needed to have a good story and remain faithful to the spirit of the comic and characters.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 04:20 PM   #8
Jackskeleton
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 52,658
the problem is it's a double edged sword. if it's not 100% faithful the fans would hate it, If it doesn't appeal to the mass audiances then the masses will not watch it or pick up on it well enough.

See how it can get out of hand? as for story, it might seem easy to pick from since there really is decades worth of story material that is out there that would be great and already written in the comics for the creators to choose from, but they want something updated and able to relate to both new fans and old.
__________________
OTHER FORUM TEAM 7 leaderI will not say them here nor there. I will not say them anywhere. I will not say those Words you twit. I will not, will not sayI quit!
Leaving a dark wet stain where your brain used to be? weird..tv?
The bank is worth the risk
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 06:03 PM   #9
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
Depends on the fans. Most fans I knew loved the two X-Men movies and Spider-Man, and many of them liked Hulk up until the last third.
I don't think it has to be 100% for fans to like it, just don't make any major league changes without any plausible reason for doing so. I really feel we fanboys get a bad rap, we're really not that picky.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 06:19 PM   #10
Rypro 525
DVD Talk Hero
 
Rypro 525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: a frikin hellhole
Posts: 27,460
What they should have done with daredevil, is briefly hinted of Elektras return so people wouldn't be confused or to logically set up a sequel.
__________________
Follow me: http://twitter.com/TheChewDefense
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 06:35 PM   #11
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
Quote:
Originally posted by Rypro 525
What they should have done with daredevil, is briefly hinted of Elektras return so people wouldn't be confused or to logically set up a sequel.
It would have also helped, IMO, if they had taken some time to build Elektra as a top notch assassin. As it was, she was a skilled fighter, but she got taken out with her first attempt. Made her look like a chump.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 06:51 PM   #12
clemente
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,185
Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. DVD
It would have also helped, IMO, if they had taken some time to build Elektra as a top notch assassin. As it was, she was a skilled fighter, but she got taken out with her first attempt. Made her look like a chump.
She was a chump...in the movie adaptation of the comic book. Maybe they'll bring her closer to her comic book roots in her own flick as have her as more of a badass in DD2.

I thought they had briefly hinted at the fact that Elektra didn't die....the locket. Or was there some other interpretation of that scene that I missed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 06:53 PM   #13
greatjedi
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,851
I won't be able to see Daredevil until its DVD release. Where are the spoiler tags?

Anyway, it seems that as far as comic book movies go, if you stray from the original comic book story, people freak out. If you stay 100% faithful, people complain that it's not original. If you develop characters, people are upset that there's not enough action. If there's action, people gripe about the lack of story.
Comic book heroes are icons that have been around for so long that everyone seems to have a different idea of how that hero (or villian) should be interpreted on screen. It's almost a lose lose situation.
The movies based on comic books that people don't complain about are the ones that are made from comics that many people haven't read. Take Men in Black for instance. How many times have you heard poeple argue about the movie vs. the comic?
__________________
Time. Time. What is time? Swiss manufacture it. French hoard it. Italians squander it. Americans say it is money. Hindus say it does not exist. Do you know what I say? I say time is a crook.

I love that new DVD smell!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 10:12 PM   #14
fumanstan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rancho Santa Margarita, CA
Posts: 38,856
I think the biggest problem with comic book movies is that studios and film makers don't have the opportunity to flesh out the important story arcs from the comics. The best stories in the comics have always been those that developed over time and spanned multiple issues, which just can't happen in a 90 minute movie (daredevil) and bores the audience in a 120 minute movie (hulk).

I felt that's what made X2 all the more interesting to me, as they took the time to develop what happened in the first film and leave more questions for a third film. To me, X2 makes the first film better in this way... all the characters return, we see what happens to Magneto, we see more about Wolverine's past, and we see developments to Jean's character. You can easily watch X-Men and then X2 as an excellent continuity of story.

Reading some of the trivia on Batman over at IMDB (yeah yeah, call most of the stuff bunk), there was planned to be greater continuity between the first 3 movies. I think going that route would have helped prevent the downward spiral of the last 2 films. The Batman movies definitly suffer from having to redevelop new origins of each baddie in the movie, and like was said, it became more concentrated on big stars rather then the characters.

I think this will also be key in the success of Spider-Man. I'm interested in seeing how the Green Goblin story arc with Harry develops, which it hopefully does as it was setup so well in the first film, and i hope that the subplot continues and isn't rushed. Let's see Doc Ock, let's see Venom, but i also want to see Harry's anguish on the side, even if he is only given 20 minutes of screen time.

Following the comic book stories and origins exactly aren't necessary, but take the time to flesh out characters and storylines should be #1. Batman and Robin is the perfect example of putting stars and flash before character and story.
__________________
3x Sheep Champion

VG Round 1b | VG Round 7 | NFL
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-03, 10:21 PM   #15
Jackskeleton
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 52,658
Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Depends on the fans. Most fans I knew loved the two X-Men movies and Spider-Man, and many of them liked Hulk up until the last third.
Then you must not have heard much of the outside world (or should I say the net) before the film. People complained that the outfits weren't the same as the comics for X-men and then people like me complained about the lack of gambit, then more folks hated how young some of the people were and how origins somehow. Spiderman suffered from the whole Mary Jane falling off the bridge instead of gwen. You can't always please everyone should be the moral of the story, but there was a lot of bad mouthing these things. Of course the hulk suffered from the whole "Why didn't they use a person instead of CG" gripe
__________________
OTHER FORUM TEAM 7 leaderI will not say them here nor there. I will not say them anywhere. I will not say those Words you twit. I will not, will not sayI quit!
Leaving a dark wet stain where your brain used to be? weird..tv?
The bank is worth the risk
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 07:38 AM   #16
elias
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 818
Quote:
Originally posted by Jackskeleton
The writers on Batman were lacking because when it comes down to it.. What can you really do with batman after you told his back story? Especially when it was a sort of revolving door for cast and crew. You really couldn't continue much so they did the next best thing and focused on showing More back stories in the form of new villians with new sub villians. This along with the more comic book look killed the sequels more so by the next film after the next film.
I agree that the writers were lacking but I respectfully disagree that there is nothing more to do with Batman after the back story. In terms of comics, there are no bad characters, only bad writing. Alan Moore has taken bad, ill-conceived characters and turned out masterpieces. A good screenwriter should be able to tell a good story, especially with a character like Batman. Batman has been published continually since 1949. There are plenty of good stories in the thousands and thousands of comics that have come out during that time that the screenwriters could have borrowed from if they couldn't come up with a good original idea.

Quote:
Superman also suffered from this after the second or do I not need to remind you of Superman III? Sure a better story would be nice, but it's a double bladed sword. You get the comic book fan's who say that it's not staying true to the comics and if you do just recreate the comic book story you are just regurgatating old material which most have already seen/heard and that could impact your market.
You can't eat your cake and have it too. Fanboys say "stay true to the comic" and the general public doesn't know the comics from Adam. If you "just recreate the comic book story" you aren't just "regurgatating old material wich most have already seen/heard" which could "impact your market" because the largest segment of the market, the non-comic readers, don't haven't read or heard the story and the fanboy market is happy about it. Besides, one doesn't have to take a story from the last couple of years for the characters you are discussing. Superman was created in 1938 & Batman in 1939. Dig deep enough and you will find a good story that almost no one knows, including many fanboys. Granted a lot of what has been released over the years is crap, but there are plenty of gems out there.

Quote:
Most importantly, these are made for a reason.. Profit, so the studio's want to make sure they make the investment back. They can assure this by making just a general big bang for your buck item that really lacks in quality sometimes, but makes up for it in qualitity.
I'm not sure what "lacks in quality..., but makes up for it in quality" means. Were you going for "makes up for it in quantity"? Maybe so, except that the films that lack quality soon tank at the box office anyway so this doesn't sound like a good strategy.

I think the biggest problem with these kinds of movies is that the producers/directors/cast don't know how to make them. They don't take the material seriously from the beginning and generally just don't know how to approach it. Richard Donner knew how to approach Superman. When other crews, who didn't have the understanding that Donner had, made the sequels look what you got. Check out the bonus features on the Superman disk for more discussion from Donner himself. Raimi understands comics and Spider-Man and was able to turn out a pretty good film (I didn't really like the movie, but that was more from a story point of view than his approach). Can you imagine Lord of the Rings in the hand of a person who doesn't care as much as Jackson? Or approaches the material as JUST CHILDISH FANTASY? That is what most bad comic book movies suffer from, not bad characters. With the right crew/cast even a Namor movie can be exciting!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 09:06 AM   #17
joelgee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 411
Okay. let's talk about Batman.
Here's a guy who's the love child of Sherlock Holmes and the Shadow. If I had the time, I'd love to write a treatment that highlights Batman the detective, the master of disguises, the avenger in the shadows.
That's a Batman movie that would be true to the original concept, that would be gritty and atmospheric.
Imagine an opening establishing shot: foggy night, on the waterfront. Camera takes us into Kane's, a sleazy, roughshod waterfront bar. Several scummy types are sitting at the bar. One round table in the back. Bunch of guys are shooting their mouths off about a shipment. One particularly seedy guy staggers away from the table and out into the fog. He disappears. We see his hat lying on the ground.
Pier 38, guys unloading crates. All is shadows and fog. One shadow separates from the rest and flows closer to the unloaded crates. Somebody takes out a worker. We see another person taking that worker's place. He's paying too much attention to the markings on one of the crates.
Somebody addresses the worker in Czechoslovakian, but the worker doesn't reply. Several workers circle the stranger. THe stranger laughs, throws down a smoke bomb and disappears.

Now that's how a Batman movie could start, with mystery, tension and a sense of "who is this guy?"

That's the Batman movie I'd really like to see.
Thank you.
I needed to get that out of my system.
J
__________________
This is nuts!!
-- Roy Neary
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 09:42 AM   #18
resinrats
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,430
Quote:
Originally posted by fumanstan


I think this will also be key in the success of Spider-Man. I'm interested in seeing how the Green Goblin story arc with Harry develops, which it hopefully does as it was setup so well in the first film, and i hope that the subplot continues and isn't rushed. Let's see Doc Ock, let's see Venom, but i also want to see Harry's anguish on the side, even if he is only given 20 minutes of screen time.

If they do show Harry as the GG, it better be several movies down the line. I saw 4-5 movies from now. Show Harry being pissed off until then. I don't know how long it took in the comics but if you bring in the GG again too soon, the general audience will think,"why bring back the same villian agian".
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 10:56 AM   #19
Rypro 525
DVD Talk Hero
 
Rypro 525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: a frikin hellhole
Posts: 27,460
Quote:
Originally posted by greatjedi
I won't be able to see Daredevil until its DVD release. Where are the spoiler tags?
sorry, but all of this did indeed happen in the comic.
__________________
Follow me: http://twitter.com/TheChewDefense
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 02:13 PM   #20
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
I am not such a geek/fanboy that I need EVERYTHING exactly as it is in the comics. Sad to know there are people like that out there as we type.

I think that there have been some really solid comic book movies made so far, I just can't get over how much they betrayed Daredevil in both spirit and character, the two essential elements for a comic book movie to capture IMO. The origin story actually showed promise, as did the first few opening frames. After they were through telling his BG though, they really screwed the pooch. I can deal with the storyline changes and plot, but they didn't keep the leads true to their comic book counterparts. DD would never have taken another life, even in the earlier incarnations of the character. Elektra was cold-blooded assassin, not some girl pining away for daddy and a victim of circumstance. While the look of the sets was good, it got ruined by the soundtrack blasting every second it could. Please!! Give us some dramatic score, not a bunch of techno-pop.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 02:25 PM   #21
rennervision
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,945
I think what works is when the movie has a respect for the character (Superman, Superman II) and does not make the mistake of no longer being serious and slipping into parody (Superman III, Batman and Robin). And by being serious, I mean you can make a serious comic book movie faithful to the original source material, but still retain a sense of humor. I think that's a very important aspect that isn't always easy to achieve.
__________________
“It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires…. In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be ‘replaced’ by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten." - George Lucas, 1988
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 02:54 PM   #22
sundog
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,224
Just with any other adaptation from any other source (novel, poem, play, spoken word, mime, etc.) there's a wide range of how stuff like this is handled. And I try look at each one on its own, within its respective media.

Comic books make it interesting because not only is there the literary association, there's also a heavy visual influence. Comic books are very close to film because they both are completely defined visual presentations. Editing is even similar if you think of panels as cuts. Only film adds audio and time elements (oh and actors too).

So I find it a bit harder to disassociate the two. The visual influence a comic book has on its respective movie is very strong, look at any of them, from Superman to the Hulk. Even Terry Zwigoff's film of Ghost World had the kind of smooth, uncluttered sheen of the comic book.

As for story, I don't really care. Comic book companies redefine their characters too (like the Golden Age and whatever the following "Age" was). I'm not going to blame a film for writing it a different way.

Anyway, my point is that I judge the film based on the film. It's just tougher with a comic book when the source already has a strong visual presence.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 03:45 PM   #23
Dr. DVD
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Daytona Beach, FL
Posts: 20,077
Quote:
Originally posted by rennervision
I think what works is when the movie has a respect for the character (Superman, Superman II) and does not make the mistake of no longer being serious and slipping into parody (Superman III, Batman and Robin). And by being serious, I mean you can make a serious comic book movie faithful to the original source material, but still retain a sense of humor. I think that's a very important aspect that isn't always easy to achieve.
That's what I say. Daredevil did respect the origin of DD himself, but nothing else was really given respect.

While off topic, LOTR is probably the best illustration of any adapted work making necessary changes while still giving the utmost respect to the source material.
Batman (1989), with all of its flaws, did respect the material and really hit the nail on the head with both the looks of Gotham and its characters. While Nicholson as Joker really was the standout element of the movie, I have to say he was basically doing his normal routine with white face paint and green hair.
__________________
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." -Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 04:59 PM   #24
Peep
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 7,335
As for staying true to the comic-book source, haven't a lot of heros had their origins re-written at least once? The whole Marvel "Ultimate" line is re-imaging some of their best-sellers (Spiderman, X-Men, Avengers). Superman/Superboy and Supergirl have each had a couple of reboots. And I think I read somewhere that Hawkman has had his origin retold like 10 different ways.

Oh well... Every few years a company or a writer wants to invigorate a character. The easiest way is to rewrite his/her origin. I don't know why people bitch about movies doing the same. I only mind when they change things and make them much worse (like with the Hulk).
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-03, 08:14 PM   #25
lesterlong
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Right Behind You
Posts: 4,986
Re: Comic Book Hero movies: what they should do an where they have failed

Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Okay, I am a big fanboy, not a studio exec, so that might kill any sense of reality in terms of what I want. While a lot of people are getting annoyed by the glut in comic book movies, I reall do admire the route Marvel has taken with its adaptations, with the exception of Daredevil.
X-Men and X2 were two great comic book movies IMO. I hope the Spidey sequel holds up, and I'm sure it will because it isn't making the fatal flaw the Batman series did:focusing on the villains.
While Batman was a good movie, having Jack Nicholson as The Joker began the trend of "who would be good as said villain" in lieu of "what should be the next story?" As a result, we got a franchise that was going for media hoopla over "look who we got to play..." Basically, Batman became less about the Dark Knight and more about which A-list actor was playing the villain.
Spider-Man seems to be ducking this problem well. While I am familiar with his work, not many people recognize the name of Alfred Molina (Doc Ock). This is a wise move as it keeps the focus of the movie on Spidey himself, not hammy villain antics. The purpose of a comic book villain is to serve as an opponent whom upon defeating, the hero has made a significant accomplishment, thus adding to his/her story and character. This is where the Batman series failed, it was never about telling the hero's story, it was about the villains with the hero as a subplot. However, it was through proceeding with what they had and adding characters for story value that good sequels like X2 and Superman II succeeded. They were not about some celebrity getting so many million to play a caricature. This is also where I think Daredevil dropped the ball, with both its heroes and villains. You never really saw a story, only rather famous actors running around in tight outfits. (Except Colin Farrell, he did it in a good way.)
In short, let the story be the focus, not the celebrities or stars.
That wasn't the only problem the Batman series had and I don't see how that would contribute to a film's decline.
  Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.