the Mother
05-21-03, 09:05 AM
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the Mother
some believe Persephone is the mother, some believe the oracle is the mother. my question is how can Persephone NOT be the mother? she's experienced love she said so before she kissed neo, the recognized love. she wouldn't be able to do such a thing unless she was a program designed to study human emotion. the oracle talks about love but never states what it feels like
05-21-03, 09:17 AM
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By Mother they could simply mean the female creator. From what I gathered, it was the Oracle's knowledge of the human psyche that helped Colonel Sanders recreate the Matrix after the failed Utopia version.
05-21-03, 09:17 AM
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Yeah, really.
Persephone is a rogue program. Just like all the others in Merovingian's group. They have broken off from their "normal" activities and jumped into the Matrix to do as they please. Anything any of them do shouldn't be considered all that huge, they are breaking the machine rules because they feel like it.
Persephone is a rogue program. Just like all the others in Merovingian's group. They have broken off from their "normal" activities and jumped into the Matrix to do as they please. Anything any of them do shouldn't be considered all that huge, they are breaking the machine rules because they feel like it.
05-21-03, 09:23 AM
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i agree, at first i thought it was the oracle, but the architects "Please" can be taken two ways. as in Please she's the creator but no oracle, or Please she's not the creator...............
i think it fits too well with the Merovingian religous theme.(persephonie resembles Yse(Lilith or gods gift to adam the first female) cast down when she refused to be a slave and demanded to be man's equil. in the Merovingian religion the kiss is very significant because Yse was created(by god or the architect in this case) specificly to sense emotion. when she was created she was so emotionally overwelmed and felt love for her creator she kissed him, her feeling was the first known feeling of love in the known universe. this reaction became known as the chosen response, and later the chosen response is needed to restore the wasteland and holy city(real world and zion). once cast down Yse paired up with Sammael(in this case the merovingian) who was said to be the highest throned angel but was cast down(in this case into exile). Lillith vowed revenge on mankind and Sammael vowed to regain power.............fits nicely with the merovingian and persephone characters
could be reading waaaay to much into it but who knows?
i think it fits too well with the Merovingian religous theme.(persephonie resembles Yse(Lilith or gods gift to adam the first female) cast down when she refused to be a slave and demanded to be man's equil. in the Merovingian religion the kiss is very significant because Yse was created(by god or the architect in this case) specificly to sense emotion. when she was created she was so emotionally overwelmed and felt love for her creator she kissed him, her feeling was the first known feeling of love in the known universe. this reaction became known as the chosen response, and later the chosen response is needed to restore the wasteland and holy city(real world and zion). once cast down Yse paired up with Sammael(in this case the merovingian) who was said to be the highest throned angel but was cast down(in this case into exile). Lillith vowed revenge on mankind and Sammael vowed to regain power.............fits nicely with the merovingian and persephone characters
could be reading waaaay to much into it but who knows?
Last edited by Daytrip; 05-21-03 at 09:39 AM.
05-21-03, 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Groucho
The Oracle is the Mother. This shouldn't even be up for debate as it's stated explicitly in the film.
The Oracle is the Mother. This shouldn't even be up for debate as it's stated explicitly in the film.
" (Please note the rolleyes is my impression of how his face looked). the Architect seemed like neo didn't realize how wrong he was.... or the architect is blown away at how high of a status the normal folk have given her. either way this was not answered in Reloaded. it was just brought up and no side gained any level on it.
Last edited by Jackskeleton; 05-21-03 at 01:11 PM.
05-21-03, 01:13 PM
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First of all, the Oracle is the Mother of the Matrix.
Just because the Architect said "Please" in response to Neo saying "The Oracle" doesn't mean the Architect was stating that the Oracle should not have been held in high regards or that she's not likely at all to be the Mother. He simply said "Please" because Neo interrupted him in his explanation of the situation. In other words, "Please.. don't interrupt me".
Just because the Architect said "Please" in response to Neo saying "The Oracle" doesn't mean the Architect was stating that the Oracle should not have been held in high regards or that she's not likely at all to be the Mother. He simply said "Please" because Neo interrupted him in his explanation of the situation. In other words, "Please.. don't interrupt me".
05-21-03, 01:25 PM
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How many times do I have to post the same text in different threads? 
the "please" really didn't staple it one way or another. You can't say for a fact that it showed that she is the mother of the matrix.
the "please" really didn't staple it one way or another. You can't say for a fact that it showed that she is the mother of the matrix.
05-22-03, 01:27 PM
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Two thoughts on this:
1. I think the W. Bros would have only made the Architecht say "please" if it meant that the Oracle is not the mother. Otherwise, the "please" is both irrelevant (and everything in these movies has some relevance to the plot) and confusing.
2. Again about relevance:The Persephone/Neo kissing scene has to have SOME relevance. It was NOT just a cheap attempt at comic relief, having us laugh as Trinity gets pissed watching them kiss. I think the only relevance it could have is showing how human-like Persephone is. Which leads up the conclusion that she is the "mother"
1. I think the W. Bros would have only made the Architecht say "please" if it meant that the Oracle is not the mother. Otherwise, the "please" is both irrelevant (and everything in these movies has some relevance to the plot) and confusing.
2. Again about relevance:The Persephone/Neo kissing scene has to have SOME relevance. It was NOT just a cheap attempt at comic relief, having us laugh as Trinity gets pissed watching them kiss. I think the only relevance it could have is showing how human-like Persephone is. Which leads up the conclusion that she is the "mother"
05-22-03, 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by Jackskeleton
How many times do I have to post the same text in different threads?
the "please" really didn't staple it one way or another. You can't say for a fact that it showed that she is the mother of the matrix.
How many times do I have to post the same text in different threads?
the "please" really didn't staple it one way or another. You can't say for a fact that it showed that she is the mother of the matrix.
Are you actually one of the watchowski bros. in this forum?
If either are true then just tell us but other than that YOU DON'T KNOW.
The plot for these films are purposely convaluded to confuse you (and I and us all) if it was clear and obvious there would be no room for arguement or discussion now would it?!
That being said...
I belive they are different aspects of the same program. There are many programs that are multi-threaded and have different functions. In my opinion the "Mother" (Yse) program has different threads that allow different functions one would be to analyze human interaction when presented with a small amount of choice (The Oracle) and another aspect failed at creation of the other matrix and has decided to be in exile (and not return to the full start of the mother (Yse) program. just as different parts of a multi-threaded program can fail and stop working, so has the persephone portion of the Yse program.
That is my THEORY, I did not write the script nor am I a watchowski.
just OPINION...
05-22-03, 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Mitabrev
and you know this because you wrote the frickin' films???
Are you actually one of the watchowski bros. in this forum?
If either are true then just tell us but other than that YOU DON'T KNOW.
and you know this because you wrote the frickin' films???
Are you actually one of the watchowski bros. in this forum?
If either are true then just tell us but other than that YOU DON'T KNOW.
Back off buddy. I never stated in my post that I knew for a fact what it ment. Hell if you read it again, it shows that I stated it doesn't prove one side over the other. that includes both ends of it. It doesn't prove that she is the mother or Isn't the mother. It just showed that there was an "please" in there as a reaction.
So where is it that I said that I know for a fact that it's one way?
05-22-03, 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Mitabrev
and you know this because you wrote the frickin' films???
Are you actually one of the watchowski bros. in this forum?
If either are true then just tell us but other than that YOU DON'T KNOW.
and you know this because you wrote the frickin' films???
Are you actually one of the watchowski bros. in this forum?
If either are true then just tell us but other than that YOU DON'T KNOW.
I have no idea what is what in these films now, but I like that. It's fun to think about. The best quote I have for waiting until November. "The suspense is terrible. I hope it'll last." Willy Wonka.
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