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The Meeting with the Oracle [SPOILER]

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The Meeting with the Oracle [SPOILER]

Old 05-20-03, 02:53 AM
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The Meeting with the Oracle [SPOILER]

IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE, YOU MAY WANT TO LEAVE RIGHT NOW!

Here's the entire conversation. I've seen the movie four times now and I can comfortably pass this on as being correct.
---------------------------------------

Oracle: Well, come on. I ain’t gonna’ bite ya’. Come around here and let me have a look at you. My goodness, look at you! You turned out alright, didn't you? How do you feel?

Neo: I uh...

Oracle: I know you're not sleeping. We'll get to that. Why don't you come and have a sit this time?

Neo: Maybe I'll stand.

Oracle: Well, suit yourself.

(long pause... Neo sits.)

Neo: I felt like sitting.

Oracle: I know. So... let's get the obvious stuff out of the way.

Neo: You're not human, are you?

Oracle: Well, it's tough to get any more obvious than that.

Neo: If I had to guess, I'd say you were a program from the machine world. (He looks over at Seraph, the Oracle's bodygaurd) So is he.

Oracle: So far, so good.

Neo: But if that's true, that could mean you were part of this system... another kind of control.

Oracle: Keep going.

Neo: I suppose the most obvious question is, how can I trust you?

Oracle: Bingo! It is a pickle, no doubt about it. The bad news is, there's no way if you can really know whether I'm here to help you or not. So it's really up to you. Just have to make up your own damn mind to either accept what I'm going to tell you, or reject it. (she holds something out to him) Candy?

Neo: (pauses) You already know if I'm going to take it?

Oracle: Wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't.

Neo: But if you already know, how can I make a choice?

Oracle: Because you didn't come here to make a choice. You've already made it. You're here to try to understand WHY you made it. (Neo takes the candy, but just holds it) I thought you'd have figured that out by now.

Neo: Why are you here?

Oracle: Same reason..... I love candy. (she pops a piece in her mouth)

Neo: But why help us?

Oracle: We're all here to do, what we're all here to do. I'm interested in one thing Neo... the future. And believe me, I know, the only way to get there, is together.

Neo: Are there other programs like you?

Oracle: Oh, well, not like me, but.... look, see those birds? At some point a program was written to govern them. A program was written to watch over the trees and the wind, sunrise and sunset. There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do, are invisible. You'd never even know they were here. But the other ones... well... you hear about them all the time.

Neo: I've never heard of them.

Oracle: Oh, of course you have. Every time you've heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you've ever heard about vampires, werewolves or aliens, it's the system assimilating some program that's doing something they're not supposed to be doing.

Neo: Programs hacking programs... Why?

Oracle: They have their reasons, but, usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion.

Neo: Why would a program be deleted?

Oracle: Maybe it breaks down, maybe a better program is created to replace it. Happens all the time. And when it does, a program can either choose to hide here, or return to the source.

Neo: The machine mainframe.

Oracle: Yes. Where you must go. Where the path of The One ends. You've seen it... in your dreams, haven't you? The door made of light?

Neo: (nods)

Oracle: What happens when you go through the door?

Neo: I see Trinity. And something happens... something bad. She starts to fall, and I wake up.

Oracle: Do you see her die?

Neo: No.

Oracle: You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.

Neo: Then why can't I see what happens to her?

Oracle: We can never see past the choices we don't understand.

Neo: Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?

Oracle: No. You've already made the choice. Now you have to understand it.

Neo: No. I can't do that. I won't.

Oracle: You have to.

Neo: Why?

Oracle: Because you're The One.

Neo: What if I can't? What happens if I fail?

Oracle: Then Zion will fall.

(Seraph touches the Oracle's shoulder)

Oracle: Our time is up. Listen to me, Neo. You can save Zion if you reach the source. But to do that, you will need the Keymaker.

Neo: The Keymaker...

Oracle: Yes, he disappeared some time ago. We did not know what happened to him until now. He's being held prisoner by a very dangerous program, one of the oldest of us, he's called the Marovingian. And he will not let him go willingly.

Neo: What does he want?

Oracle: What do all men with power want? More power! Be there, at that exact time, (She hands Neo a note) and you will have a chance.

Seraph: We must go.

Oracle: Seems like every time we meet I got nothing but bad news. I'm sorry about that, I surely am. But for what it's worth, you've made a believer out of me. (She pats him on the arm) Good luck, kiddo.
Old 05-20-03, 03:24 AM
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Reading through this and seeing the movie again has changed my opinion of the Oracle. I thought she was an independent program trying to help the humans, maybe even the mother of the Matrix that the Architect speaks of. Now I see her as nothing more than the program used to get The One back to the Source.

Her answers are always cryptic. When Neo asks her, "why help us?" She answers with that, "We're all here to do, what we're all here to do." In other words, her purpose. She says she's only interested in the future and the way to get there is "together." I now think her "future" is the same old routine that gets The One back to the mainframe so his code can be reinserted into the system to help eliminate the anomaly. That's why she's sorry for always bringing bad news... she likes him, but she has a job to do. She has just been the tool to get the humans, including Morpheus, to set up the return of The One.

Everything is setup to get him there. Everywhere he goes, people say, "I've been expecting you." It's all set up and they, the programs, are fulfilling thier purpose to make it happen. That's why there's this big emphasis on purpose. When Niobe asks the Keymaker how he knows everything he does, he replies by saying he's required to know it. "It is my purpose."

When the Oracle says Zion will fall if Neo doesn't make it to the source, she's referring to him not getting there so he can repopulate it. Zion is supposed to fall according to the plan. Then it can start over. The prophesy is that when The One reaches the Source, the war would be over.... but does that mean Zion would win? Or is it just a false hope to get all the things lined up for The One to fulfill his purpose?
Old 05-20-03, 03:24 AM
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Cool! I need that!
Old 05-20-03, 03:35 AM
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The oracle just like the key maker is a program written to do what it's suppose to. I agree with pixel. couldn't have said it better myself.
Old 05-20-03, 09:01 AM
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BUT...

Not every program runs as it is supposed to.

The Architect originally created the "perfect" Matrix, but it was a monumental failure because the variable of Choice was missing. But an "intuitive program" (i.e. The Oracle) discovered that, as long as humans were given a choice, "99% of the subjects accepted the program". Choice enabled the Matrix to function, even though it also created the systemic anomaly, which the mythology of The One was then designed to control.

BUT...

The Oracle says that, when programs are due to be replaced, the program has a choice "to either hide here or return to the source". So Choice is not just a human characteristic, as some programs exhibit that trait, too.

SO...

Could The Oracle be making her own choices and following her own agenda -- one that is contrary to the continued functioning of The Matrix, as designed by The Architect? An agenda whose ultimate goal is to return to the peaceful coexistence between machines and humans?

Like a double agent, she could have planted the seed of Choice in The Matrix, supposedly to aid The Architect's design, while knowing that ultimately it would result in the creation of someone like Neo. (Even though it's taken 5 previous tries for him to finally happen.) If that's the case, then she's not a "bad guy" after all.

I'm interested in one thing Neo... the future. And believe me, I know, the only way to get there, is together.
Old 05-20-03, 03:33 PM
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The Oracle says that, when programs are due to be replaced, the program has a choice "to either hide here or return to the source". So Choice is not just a human characteristic, as some programs exhibit that trait, too.
I know... that didn't get by me without a raised eyebrow. The programs have a choice? Very interesting.

I don't think it's a matter of the Oracle being "good or bad." If she's a program then she's running on the logic of her program. Even though we see her as witty and sarcastic, those just may be functions of her programming.

Does Morpheus know she's a program? He trusted her completely, so Neo did too. But if that is her purpose, to win that trust, then she would be programmed to be good at it. And who ever that Mother of the Matrix is, she was designed to investigate the human psyche. So they would know exactly how to go about treating humans to win trust.

Just think about what the programs say from the machine's point of view.
-The Oracle, "I'm interested in one thing Neo... the future..." She doesn't say EXACTLY who's future.

-Seraph, "I protect that which matters most..." Neo saw Seraph as golden code. If the Oracle is the method to get The One back to the Source, that would make her the most important of all for the survival of the Matrix. So the system would assign her a Super Program to make sure nothing happens to her.

One of the things that didn't stick until I saw this the 4th time, is that after fighting Neo, Seraph says, "The Oracle has many enemies." And that throws more questions into the mix... who and why?

-Marovingian reminding Persephone after she betrays him, "This is only a game..." But they obviously have their own personalities and lives in the Matrix.

I really gotta' hand it to the brothers... they have done a fantastic job of laying this out in a way where any number of things are possible, but nothing is absolute.

Heh... I'm glad Revolutions is only six months away, but it's going to be a very looooong six months.
Old 05-20-03, 08:47 PM
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There is some interesting support for the matrix in a matrix theory in this dialogue.

Oracle: I know you're not sleeping. We'll get to that. Why don't you come and have a sit this time?
How does she know he isn't sleeping if he only does that in Zion. He never rests while in the matrix so the fact that she is so positive he isn't sleeping makes it seem like they know what is going on in Zion at all times i.e. another layer of the matrix.
Old 05-20-03, 10:45 PM
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So... Neo is David Swinton.
The Oracle is Dr. Know.
The Keymaker is Blue Fairy.
The Architect is Professor Hobby.

So... Wachowski and Wachowski are Kubrick and Spielberg?
Old 05-21-03, 10:31 AM
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Her answers are always cryptic. When Neo asks her, "why help us?" She answers with that, "We're all here to do, what we're all here to do." In other words, her purpose. She says she's only interested in the future and the way to get there is "together." I now think her "future" is the same old routine that gets The One back to the mainframe so his code can be reinserted into the system to help eliminate the anomaly. That's why she's sorry for always bringing bad news... she likes him, but she has a job to do. She has just been the tool to get the humans, including Morpheus, to set up the return of The One.
Didn't she set up the love between Neo and Trinity in the first movie? And isn't that love the reason why Neo chose door #2? It seems like the Oracle wanted Neo to "choose" the other door so humanity could have another future. I doubt she wanted that future to be their complete desctruction so she must have some other plan...
Old 05-21-03, 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by Kellehair
Didn't she set up the love between Neo and Trinity in the first movie? And isn't that love the reason why Neo chose door #2? It seems like the Oracle wanted Neo to "choose" the other door so humanity could have another future. I doubt she wanted that future to be their complete desctruction so she must have some other plan...
[Neo] whoa [/Neo]
Old 05-21-03, 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Kellehair
Didn't she set up the love between Neo and Trinity in the first movie? And isn't that love the reason why Neo chose door #2? It seems like the Oracle wanted Neo to "choose" the other door so humanity could have another future. I doubt she wanted that future to be their complete desctruction so she must have some other plan...
the whole thing comes down to choice. Did Neo really hook up with trinity just because the Oracle told him? I don't think so. not entirely. It seems like neo is making choices on his own by this point. Jumping out of the loop that the other 5 "ones" made and so forth.
Old 05-21-03, 12:37 PM
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Question: why does the Oracle tell Neo, without hesitation that he is NOT "The One" in Matrix, but then accepts him as "The One" without comment in Reloaded?
Old 05-21-03, 12:39 PM
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he has to be tested to find out if he's the one............she tells him he's waiting for something, his next life maybe, and that being the one is like being in love you can't be told you just know........well he died and was brought back KNOWING he was the one, and KNOWS he's in love
Old 05-21-03, 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Groucho
Question: why does the Oracle tell Neo, without hesitation that he is NOT "The One" in Matrix, but then accepts him as "The One" without comment in Reloaded?
Just what they say. She told him what he needed to hear.
Old 05-21-03, 01:13 PM
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the whole thing comes down to choice. Did Neo really hook up with trinity just because the Oracle told him? I don't think so. not entirely. It seems like neo is making choices on his own by this point. Jumping out of the loop that the other 5 "ones" made and so forth.
I'm not sure Neo is making his own choices. For example, does he have a choice about eating the candy offered to him by the Oracle? Is it really a choice if she already knows the answer? This raises a larger question about the Oracle: does she know the future or manipulate the future? She made Neo break the vase in the first movie and she got him to sit down in Reloaded against his wishes. Did she manufacture the love between Neo and Trinity to serve her own purposes? There didn't seem to be much, if any, attraction between the 2 before the end of the first movie. It was at that point Trinity tells Neo he can't die because the Oracle said she would fall in love with the one and she loves Neo...blah blah blah, you know what I'm talking about.

Next think about Neo's conversation with the French guy (Merovingian?). He wants to know why Neo wants the keymaker. Neo doesn't know exactly. He's basically just following orders.
Old 05-21-03, 01:15 PM
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Just what they say. She told him what he needed to hear.
She told him the truth. Think about it.
Old 05-21-03, 01:26 PM
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You all got to understand that the Oracle have already gone through 5 revisions of the Matrix with "the One" and knows precisely his reactions are ahead of time.. ie. "the One" breaks the vase, "the One" sitting down next to her, "the One" taking the candy, and so on. However, there is a small element that he can veer off slightly from what the Oracle says but it all merges back to her prediction eventually.
Old 05-21-03, 02:33 PM
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I don't buy that argument. Why does "the one" have to be exactly like Neo every time? The Matrix itself is different every time too.

I had another point too but I can't remember what it was. It happens to me a lot when I think about this movie. Understanding is elusive.
Old 05-21-03, 02:56 PM
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well obviously she can see things that happen in the future, like she said as long as you understand the choice you can see it.................now how she knew he wasn't sleeping is a different story that happened in the real world not the matrix
Old 05-21-03, 05:50 PM
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Just what they say. She told him what he needed to hear.
Exactly. That's how she operates. I'll have to watch it again, don't have time now, but I think it was something like...

Oracle is examining Neo.

Oracle: Now I'm supposed to say, 'hmmm that's interesting, but...' and then you say...

Neo: But, what?

Oracle: But, you already know what I'm going to say...

Neo: I'm not the One.

Oracle: Sorry kid. You got the gift, but you're waiting for something.

I don't think she actually says to him, "You're not the One." He is just left with something to make him think that, for what ever reason. Maybe he needs the experience of getting killed and coming back to truly become the One. Maybe the agents are really just there to facilitate that experience.... who knows?

Something else to consider. Marovingian called her a fortune teller. Fortune tellers use certain language techniques to make it sound like they know things. They have a way of getting information, making hunches, whatever. The Oracle may not have known all those things she seems to know. She's already gone through 5 other Ones, she probably knows from experience that when they get that close to returning to the source they can't sleep well. It's a safe assumption. When Neo asks if she already knows if he's going to take the candy, she gives another cryptic answer, "wouldn't be much of an Oracle if I didn't." He could accept or reject it and she could say nothing either way.

I do not think that the preveoius 'Ones' were all 'Neos'. They were different. Neo is not a program, he's human. The others were human. It's the anomaly in the system that somehow triggers an individual to develop into the One. And the One becomes the anomaly.
Old 05-21-03, 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by pixel8or
I don't think she actually says to him, "You're not the One."
She doesn't. The Oracle Scene from The Matrix was a deft bit of cinema.
Old 05-22-03, 08:36 AM
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watched the first matrix again last night, the oracle actually asks NEO if he's the one, then tells him he's not...........i'm guessing if he had said yes then she would have agreed
Old 05-22-03, 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by Daytrip
watched the first matrix again last night, the oracle actually asks NEO if he's the one, then tells him he's not...........i'm guessing if he had said yes then she would have agreed
Wrong again.

She never tells him he's not.
She never specifically agrees with him.
The Oracle: Okay. Now I'm supposed to say, "Umm, that's interesting", but then you say...

Neo: But what?

The Oracle: But you already know what I'm going to tell you.

Neo: I'm not The One.

Oracle: Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.

Neo: What?

The Oracle: Your next life maybe, who knows? That's the way these things go.
Neo's perceptions/doubts/expectations shape the way he (and most viewers) experience that scene. As I said, very well crafted.

Last edited by CheapBastid; 05-22-03 at 11:18 AM.
Old 05-22-03, 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Daytrip
watched the first matrix again last night, the oracle actually asks NEO if he's the one, then tells him he's not...........i'm guessing if he had said yes then she would have agreed
I don't believe so. If she had told him that he was The One, then would he have had a CHOICE? I mean, that's what this all boils down to, doesn't it? If she had said, "yes Neo, you are The One" would he have done things the same way? I don't think so.

I believe that even at this point she is serving her purpose, which is trying to lead Neo to The Source--back to the mainframe to save Zion. Neo just wasn't ready to hear that he was The One at their first meeting, and The Oracle knew that. That's why she told him, "sorry kid". He believed that he wasn't The One and made the choice to save Morpheus.
Old 05-22-03, 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by PalmerJoss
I don't believe so. If she had told him that he was The One, then would he have had a CHOICE? I mean, that's what this all boils down to, doesn't it? If she had said, "yes Neo, you are The One" would he have done things the same way? I don't think so.

I believe that even at this point she is serving her purpose, which is trying to lead Neo to The Source--back to the mainframe to save Zion. Neo just wasn't ready to hear that he was The One at their first meeting, and The Oracle knew that. That's why she told him, "sorry kid". He believed that he wasn't The One and made the choice to save Morpheus.
Neo's perceptions and his reactions would be very altered if the Oracle came out and said "Hey, Neo. You are the One." She didn't lie to him (which is the beauty of the scene) she instead let his doubt and fear shape his perception of what she said to him. Carefully crafting her responses to lead him to express his doubt without explicitly telling him he's not.

She knew that he needed to find out for himself and know it "...balls to bones."

Nosce te ipsum.

Morpheus: "I told you, I can only show you the door. You're the one who has to walk through it."

Last edited by CheapBastid; 05-22-03 at 11:52 AM.

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