Patman

And Neo's got a huge Midichlorian count! Bah!

iggystar

I had a different take on that moment. Don't quote me, but I understood the Architect as saying, "If I am the father of the Matrix, she is considered the mother." Then Neo states, "The Oracle?" I took the look of disgust (and the "please) seemed to come from the mere name "the Oracle". As if the notion that this program has received such a title is ludicrous - from what we've discovering the Oracle is doing a little more maneuvering than prophesying.

Or perhaps as mentioned maybe the title is erroneous because she not really the one supplying these "prophesies".

Hannibal

Good stuff here:
http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

trigun

That would be soon followed by the scene of a theater full of people burning the theater down and rioting.

Travis Bickle

OK, here it goes, and I'll try to keep it brief.....(yeah right)
First off, I've seen this twice - once on Thursday evening and yesterday with my wife. I've been talking it over with her all night and day since doing so (feel sorry for her). After reading everyone's insights, it's helped me move along some of my one feelings, interpretations, and understanding to this film. Thanks to everyone for posting!

I'll break this up into pieces.

1) The Smith and Neo connection - when Smith confronts Neo before the "Burly Brawl", he tells him about his "freedom" which began after Neo destroyed him. My theory is that Neo's true power that is slowly being revealed is the power to free those from the Matrix. This is what he performed on Smith, and possibly on himself during his "resurrection".

2) Smith coming into human form - I never fretted this one like a lot of those who have posted here. I took it for what it was. The human body is a shell for the mind (this film never talks about souls or an afterlife, so we accept this as it is). When the mind is in the Matrix, a computer programmed reality, the body is suspended. When Smith took over the guys body and answered the phone, his "mind" entered the human body. Afterall, we're all just programs in the Matrix when we plug in. Makes sense to me.

3) The Merovivian (sp), IMO, is the Lucifer of this film. Everything about him reeks of a fallen angel, possibly someone who was very important long ago. He stays in power by "control" and by employing other fallen angels (remember the Oracle's description of renegade programs?). They are enabled to bend the rules (but unable to break them like Neo). I think he will be back in M3. I could go on and on about him, but it's founded more on my gut than fact....

4) Persephone (sp - so sorry!) - I think she is the Mother of the Matrix! She was sent to study "human behavior", thus her kiss with Neo. Think about it! This sets up the finale. The architect wanted Neo to choose the Trinity door! He knew, because Persephone knew how much he loved her. They orchestrated a situation to keep Neo from destroying them. The Oracle is not the mother. She is honestly there to help - a human created program (possibly).

I understand this does away with a lot of theories about this film (such as the Oracle being another way of control), but I feel it's got to be the way to go. That kiss scene says a lot. She kisses Neo to see what makes him tick. She feel his love for Trinity, and tells Trinity "I envy you. For such a thing is not meant to last". Neo, IMO, is different than other anomolies. He may be "THE ONE" to end it all. The Merovian was a little stunned at how quickly he destroyed his henchman. They seemed a little shocked at his abilities (stopping bullets, blades, etc.). So, what sets him apart from his predecessors is 1) His ability to completely break the rules of the Matrix. Nothing inside of the machineworld controls him any longer. 2) The fact that he loves one person so much. He is unique by "design". The architect uses this word when talking about the predeccors. Neo was not "designed". He was born a human (in a pod, but still a human). I believe that the predecessors were all completely created and generated by the Matrix. Neo is the true "one". A freak of nature and of the Matrix. They have no contro over him, accept by putting him in situations and forcing his decisions. That is why Persephone needed to know what it is that he loved

5) The sentinels at the end - this one was tough for me. The scene felt very forced, and borderline cheese. But here's my take. The sentinels are part of the same machineworld as The Matrix. If they indeed need Neo to Reload the Matrix, they need him alive. He is their link between man and machine. The sentinels drop when coming too close to him. The only other explanation for this is that Neo's mind has been opened to the point of operating on a higher psychic level since his "rebirth" and growth. I'm not too sure about this, and feel this will be something explained in the final chapter.

whew...that's all!

THORN

ok my turn to cook everyones noodle....

i thought there were several interesting points the movie brought to light.

1: Neo...(the One ) is the sum of an unbalanced equation. meaning neo is simply the remainder of the the equation that is the matrix. one cannot exist with out the other. neo is the infinate digits following the decimal point in the number PIE.

2: the 'real' world that morpheus and zion are in is part of the matrix.... at least thats what i think.
proof .... the archetect said that the matrix needs a certian percentage to "disbelieve" the matrix in order to function properly. if zion has been destroyed 5 times and neo is in the 6th version then its is doubtfull the nebekenezeer was built in 2169 like the core's plaque says, why would the machines have left the hover crafts intact unless they dont really exist...... neo can sence the squiddies in the 'real'world ..... neo used his powers in the 'real' world

3: if the 'real' world is not part of the matrix, then NEO is NOT human. i think Neo is possible a cyborg, or genetically engineered human.... he may only now start to become aware of it .... being able to scence the agents and the squiddies, being able to see the code while inside the matrix,

4: if Neo is truly human and the 'real'world is truely reality, would you really want to free everyone by destroying the matrix?? ........... the answer is NO!!!!!!

you wouldnt want to free everyone and destroy ther matrix.... zion has 250,000 men, women, and children surviving in a very meager existance, deep underground on a POST-neulcear war planet .... if u up and freed a few billion people from the matrix, where are they going to live? what are they going to eat? how would they survive??

its not feasible to release everone from the matrix. in the end the humans NEED the matrix. you cannot free them, hence the humans cant win. so as the archietect said its pointless to resist.



well i hope that gives u some food for thought

later

pixel8or

Ok... just saw it again (3rd time) and I need to correct myself. I watched the end very closely and there isn't any electricity coming off of Neo's hands. The camera angle makes it so his hand is filling most of the left side of the screen. The blue sparks are only what's seen dancing around the sentinels as they are jolted to a stop. And "grimacing" wasn't quite the right word, but his face is obviously strained. As in.... he's the one doing it.

When I think about it, having electricity coming from Neo would have been too weird.

*IF* something else stopped them, then the W. bros. are keeping it hidden and leading us to believe Neo did it. I still say this scene can only be taken as Neo stopping the sentinels. It's just too obvious.

pixel8or

Thanks Hannibal.... now my noodle is really, seriously baked.

I'm aware that the W. bros. are into many different aspects of religion and philosophy. How much of the story is driven by the elements of these beliefs is hard to say.

I'm not so sure about his conclusion that the human battery idea is BS. That was a very dramatic part of the original story... but then who knows? I've entertained the idea that it's more than that, but I'm not so sure.

I think there are some things that will just have to wait to be revealed in the next movie.

I've been "in the Matrix" since last Thursday. My mind has been mulling this stuff over and over all weekend. I think I need to unplug.

honered1

After reading numerous postings on this site, the idea of a matrix within a matrix has proven to feasible but not likely. I feel this way because it would almost seem too simple an idea for such a groundbreaking trilogy, not to mention the finale of it. The odds are that if you can think of a logical ending its not the one the brothers thought of.
Having seen the movie several times now and finishing the video game, Enter the Matrix, watched the entire animatrix, and seen the trailer for revolutions. My personal feelings on a few of the ideas brought up for the next movie:

1. In the trailer you can hear a line spoken by Morphues saying something to the effect of: "He fights for us". This suggests that someone either switches sides from the machines to the humans, which closely matches one of the plots seen in the animatrix. Or this could also be referring to Smith, whom nobody is sure of his physical structure either man, machine, combination, or neither of the two. Or, my personal belief, is that it refers to Neo. Perhaps realizing that he is not of human descend but instead either a program or a mix of computer and human, decides to fight for humanity. All of which have their own separate paths of philosphoical understandings and broadens the idea of Man vs. Machine.

2. There are many subtle hints that the relationship for whatever unknown reason between Neo and Trinity will end. This is mentioned by perspherone (sp?) ( I envy you.....such a love will not last), again by the same woman in one of the cutscenes in Enter the Matrix, when she talks to Ghost about his love life. ( I would also like to take the time here to mention how cool of a character ghost is, as seen in the game, I hope that this is furthered in revolutions).

3. I like the previously mentioned idea that the mother of the Matrix is perspherone. It would fit nicely into the plot.

4. I would like to know if others have any opinions on this idea, in the game the new oracle mentions the birth of a child, whom the idenitity of which is very important. Any thoughts on who this is representative of and the signifiance towards the plot.

Jackskeleton

The enter the matrix Oracle talking about the new child is very interesting and I wonder what exactly will happen with that story. could it be the seventh "one"? who knows. She had to cast away her "skin" in order to save it as the ETM story goes.

Mazje

Just to add my thoughts to the mix:

One, I'm not buying the Matrix in a Matrix theory. Too convoluted and renders the original movie almost irrelevant. It's an interesting idea, but I think it's too much to wrap up in just one more movie (so they ALL have to be freed from ANOTHER Matrix?).

Two, I had to scan the posts to see if anyone else thought this, and so far, I only found Travis Bickle's post. But I think, almost without a doubt, that Persephone is the Mother of the Matrix. I'd almost lay money on it.

Three, the next person who mentions midichlorians gets slapped!

Ketamine

Yeah, my thought also when I saw the movie. My take was that the Architect was saying the Oracle was not the Mother of the matrix. Who does that leave? Persephone is the next most likely choice IMO. She has to have more to offer this trilogy than she has so far. I really need to see this movie for the 2nd time to digest all that this movie has to offer.

As for the Neo power thing in the end with the Sentinels, I don't see why people have a problem with him having power in the real world as opposed to the Miam idea. Any number of reasons are possible to explain this. One possibility is that the combo of Smith and Neo has opened up another part of his mind. Maybe it has nothing to do with Smith but Neo has just learned he is not limited to rules in the real world just like he isn't in the Matrix. Maybe we all have "powers" but just haven't ever used them b/c we have never opened our minds. Just like people in the matrix think they are limited by certain rules, maybe people in real world also think they are limited by certain rules. Once they overcome that "mind block" there are limitless possibilities. I just took it as Neo is either the next step in the human evolutionary latter (i.e. survival of the fittest, a mutant (ala X-Men), etc.) or that we all have this ability but he was the first to open his mind to this fact. Maybe Neo is God on earth and just doesn't know it yet. Maybe he is an agent of God sent down to save the human race from certain extinction. I could see God not wanting his people destroyed so he is going to send down a warrior to end the conflict. So many different possibilities. It will be fun to see what the truth really is. Kudos to the W. brothers for making such a deep movie but only making us wait 6 months for the answers.

BTW: the fights are pretty cool also.

chanster

I think the "mother of the matrix" is a red-herring. Its not important who it is. How could Persephone, as the mother of the matrix, be hooked up with the Meroviginian. If as her name implies, she is somehow kidnapped or held against her will - which it seems like it is possible (or at least at this point now seems kidnapped) - how could the Merogivinan have enough powers to kidnap the mother of the matrix?

vivarey

I don't know about that. She seemed genuinely jealous when Meroviginian came back from the ladies bathroom adventure. I think her actions to help Neo came more from emotions (e.g. jealousy, contempt, etc) than logic. She seems very human.

liecdre

I have two subjects that i have not seen discussed.

1.) The spoon is given to him, but never seen again. I think he will be able to bend it in the "real" world in Revolutions and will be when he fully understands his powers.

2.) The kid who NEO saved has got to be a bigger part of the movie. He has got to do something really big in Revolutions.

pixel8or

To everyone who is contemplating the idea of Neo being something other than human....

"You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human." -The Architect

Neo is an unplugged human. He just happens to be, "...the eventuality of an anomaly..." thereby making him The One.

I'm not sure about Persephone. I thought the kiss was just to show how much the "programs" had become attached to human pleasure... same for Merovingian... he obviously delights in human pleasure. Remember his emphasis on "the feeling" when he was watching cake girl?

And when Neo asked the Oracle if there were other programs like her, she said, "...not like me." I think that could be a connection with the Architects mention of the intuitive program that stumbled upon the solution for the Matrix. It was unique.

Patman

Maybe it's just me, but isn't all of this conjecture and theory about the world in/out of the Matrix just plain fun?

pixel8or

She made that clear as she was puting on the lipstick. She said how tired she was of him, Merovingian, and called him a prick.

She seems very human? I think this is one of the main driving points in Reloaded. In The Matrix, we are shown nothing but humans living in the Matrix. The only machine presence is the Agents. I got the impression that the Agents were the soul expression of the machines in the Matrix from the first movie.

But, now.... we know there are all kinds of programs inhabiting the Matrix from the machine world. The Oracle, Merovingian, Persephone, the Twins, the Keymaker.... who knows how many others? And they all express their existence in human terms with human emotions.

They are, after all, created in man's likeness.

pixel8or

Yes!

C-Mart

Looking at just the first movie, I always assumed that The Oracle was a human that had never left the Matrix. That could still be the case.

One thing that is interesting is the fact that they showed the Oracle's protector in glowing gold 'code' yet they didn't show how Neo saw the other inhuman elements of the Matrix, ie Merovingian or the Oracle if she isn't human, or the Architect. Obviously he is very important, but we don't see how much so because we have nothing (other than his fight with Neo) to compare him with anything else.

-CM-

vivarey

But didn't they make a special point to say his code was unique?

chrisfelice

This is something that I haven't seen ANYONE touch yet...


WHY did Neo get cut in the Matrix?????

If he is "aware" of the fact that the Matrix is NOT real... there is NO WAY the blade would have been able to touch him, let alone cut him...

What do you think is the significance of the cut on his hand?

vivarey

Are you talking about the staircase battle - when Neo received a minor cut after he was chopped by a large blade? I think it signifies the fact that although Neo is very powerful in the Matrix, there are forces that are similarly, but not equally, powerful.

honered1

Some quick questions as I do not remember from my viewing.

1. When Neo is cut, was it on the hand?

2. If so, did this occur before or after Smith cut his hand in the real world? (Is this a coincidence or can it possibly add to the idea that they are connected some how).

3. (Unrelated.... but) If Neo is "The One" according to the architect, why do the agents attack him in the matrix, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

Jackskeleton

1. Neo is cut on the palm of his hand. not were smith/bane is cutting himself.

2. I see no connection. Neo was cut with a blade. It has been known that if something hurts you in the matrix, it would hurt you in real life. this is why bullets make him bleed and so forth. the knife stopped at his hand. I assume that he made it stop there. Pulled a dragon ball z. Remember when neo did the bullet time effect in the first.. he still was cut from the bullet skinning his leg.

3. The agents are in the city to make sure all is in order. Neo represents a virus to the system they are monitoring.. think of them as the Nortons virus scanner.. yup, that's right I said norton cause just like agents.. they can't do crap to a dangerious threat.