How many wizards are there in Middle Earth?

necros · 12-30-02, 10:13 PM

Well out of the 2 movies so far (and I never read the books) why are the only wizards Gandalf and Saruman? I know the elves are magical and stuff, but I mean the old guys with big beards kind of wizards

Ya'd think, in troubling times like these, if there were more wizard types, they'd be hanging around helping one side or the other...

Nazgul · 12-30-02, 10:53 PM

I believe that there are 5 who are wizards. Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast are part of LOTR. The other two are not a part of the story as they went into the very east of Middle-Earth.

TheMadMonk · 12-30-02, 10:54 PM

5 that I know of:

Gandalf the Grey (then white)
Saruman the White (then many-colours)
Radagast the Brown (barely in Lord of the Rings)
Alatar and Pallando (the "Blue Wizards") (not in Lord of the Rings)

These are all that I know. (note: These are off the top of my head, and I'm pretty certain these are correct; but it has been a while since I've done my research).

(Edited to change the spelling of Alatar - I had it as Allatar, originally)

agilliland · 12-31-02, 01:27 AM

I agree that 5 is the number.

The reason there are so few is because they are not humans, elves, dwarfs, etc. They are actually maiar, which are like gods. Sauron was originally one of the maiar and therefore very powerful, and so in order to aid the peoples of Middle Earth in their fight against Sauron a few of the maiar were sent to help disguised as men. As was previously mentioned 2 of the wizards went east and were never heard of again. This comes from Tokien's "Unfinished Tales" in the chapter called "The Istari." For a more detailed understanding of the maiar and the gods of Middle Earth I would suggest The Silmarillion.

necros · 12-31-02, 12:20 PM

So what do all of the colors mean? Saruman the white, gandalf the gray turned white, whats-his-name the brown... why is gandalf white now instead of gray? And how come when he met Merry & Pippin in the woods, he didn't know his name till they told him? And if they're like gods, they don't really seem all that powerful, or is Sauron just the strongest of them all?

Josh-da-man · 12-31-02, 01:03 PM

The colors are like a ranking system.

Since Sarumanm, the highest ranked Istari, betrayed the Valar, Gandalf was given his "rank" in the order.

Nazgul · 12-31-02, 01:37 PM

This is quoted from the encyclopedia of Arda.

"In origin a Maia of Manwë and Varda, Gandalf came to the northwest of Middle-earth after a thousand years of the Third Age had passed, with four others of his order. At the Grey Havens, Círdan entrusted him with the Red Ring, Narya, to aid him in contesting the will of Sauron.

Gandalf wandered widely in Middle-earth, and learned much of its races and peoples. Unlike his fellow Wizards Saruman and Radagast, he never settled in a single place. He was instrumental in the victory of the War of the Ring, but during that conflict he battled with a Balrog, and though he was ultimately victorious, his spirit left his body, but was sent back to Middle-earth to complete his task."

tor_greg · 12-31-02, 01:57 PM

The two Blue wizards went into the East and were responsible for forming "occult groups."

Also, all of the wizards except for Gandalf strayed from their mission.

hgar78 · 01-01-03, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nazgul
This is quoted from the encyclopedia of Arda.

though he was ultimately victorious, his spirit left his body, but was sent back to Middle-earth to complete his task."

this was my question...he mentioned a couple of times in TT that he was sent back to complete his mission. does this mean once it is all over he will die?

Mr_Shred · 01-01-03, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hgar78
this was my question...he mentioned a couple of times in TT that he was sent back to complete his mission. does this mean once it is all over he will die?

He can't really "die". Since he is a Maia, his spirit is immortal. However, his physical body can be destroyed, which is what happened when he fought the Balrog. Once he has fulfilled his mission,

Spoiler:

raithen · 01-02-03, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tor_greg
The two Blue wizards went into the East and were responsible for forming "occult groups."

Also, all of the wizards except for Gandalf strayed from their mission.

It should also be noted that the Blue Wizards travelled to the East with Saruman. From there, they did not return and much has been rumoured about their fate. Whether they were ensnared by Sauron, started cults, perished or stayed in the East it is not known.

There's a nice little chapter about the Istari in the book "Unfinished Tales".

Wilt thou learn the lore that was long secret
of the Five that came from a far country?
One only returned. Others never again.
under Men's dominion Middle-earth shall seek
until Dagor Dagorath and the Doom cometh.
How hast thou heard it: the hidden counsel
of the Lords of the West in the land of Aman?
The long roads are lost that led thither,
and to mortal Men Manwë speaks not.
From the West-that-was a wind bore it
to the sleeper's ear, in the silences
under night-shadow, when news is brought
from lands forgotton and lost ages
over seas of years to the searching thought.
Not all are forgotten by the Elder King.
Sauron he saw as a slow menace...

-matt

12-30-02, 10:13 PM	#1
necros DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 1,682	How many wizards are there in Middle Earth? Well out of the 2 movies so far (and I never read the books) why are the only wizards Gandalf and Saruman? I know the elves are magical and stuff, but I mean the old guys with big beards kind of wizards Ya'd think, in troubling times like these, if there were more wizard types, they'd be hanging around helping one side or the other...

12-30-02, 10:53 PM	#2
Nazgul DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jayhawk Central, Kansas Posts: 6,583	I believe that there are 5 who are wizards. Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast are part of LOTR. The other two are not a part of the story as they went into the very east of Middle-Earth. __________________ 2008 National Champions, Kansas Jayhawks Ain't no seats! 2008 Stanley Cup Champions, Detroit Red Wings 2008 NBA Champions, Boston Celtics "Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism" - This still applies, right?

12-30-02, 10:54 PM	#3
TheMadMonk DVD Talk Gold Edition Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 2,982	5 that I know of: Gandalf the Grey (then white) Saruman the White (then many-colours) Radagast the Brown (barely in Lord of the Rings) Alatar and Pallando (the "Blue Wizards") (not in Lord of the Rings) These are all that I know. (note: These are off the top of my head, and I'm pretty certain these are correct; but it has been a while since I've done my research). (Edited to change the spelling of Alatar - I had it as Allatar, originally) Last edited by TheMadMonk; 12-30-02 at 10:56 PM.

12-31-02, 01:27 AM	#4
agilliland Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 83	I agree that 5 is the number. The reason there are so few is because they are not humans, elves, dwarfs, etc. They are actually maiar, which are like gods. Sauron was originally one of the maiar and therefore very powerful, and so in order to aid the peoples of Middle Earth in their fight against Sauron a few of the maiar were sent to help disguised as men. As was previously mentioned 2 of the wizards went east and were never heard of again. This comes from Tokien's "Unfinished Tales" in the chapter called "The Istari." For a more detailed understanding of the maiar and the gods of Middle Earth I would suggest The Silmarillion. __________________ DVD Collection

12-31-02, 01:03 PM	#6
Josh-da-man DVD Talk Legend Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: The Bible Belt Posts: 10,308	The colors are like a ranking system. Since Sarumanm, the highest ranked Istari, betrayed the Valar, Gandalf was given his "rank" in the order. __________________ "Hell is other people." -- Jean-Paul Sartre

12-31-02, 12:20 PM	#5
necros DVD Talk Special Edition Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 1,682	So what do all of the colors mean? Saruman the white, gandalf the gray turned white, whats-his-name the brown... why is gandalf white now instead of gray? And how come when he met Merry & Pippin in the woods, he didn't know his name till they told him? And if they're like gods, they don't really seem all that powerful, or is Sauron just the strongest of them all?

12-31-02, 01:37 PM	#7
Nazgul DVD Talk Limited Edition Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jayhawk Central, Kansas Posts: 6,583	This is quoted from the encyclopedia of Arda. "In origin a Maia of Manwë and Varda, Gandalf came to the northwest of Middle-earth after a thousand years of the Third Age had passed, with four others of his order. At the Grey Havens, Círdan entrusted him with the Red Ring, Narya, to aid him in contesting the will of Sauron. Gandalf wandered widely in Middle-earth, and learned much of its races and peoples. Unlike his fellow Wizards Saruman and Radagast, he never settled in a single place. He was instrumental in the victory of the War of the Ring, but during that conflict he battled with a Balrog, and though he was ultimately victorious, his spirit left his body, but was sent back to Middle-earth to complete his task." __________________ 2008 National Champions, Kansas Jayhawks Ain't no seats! 2008 Stanley Cup Champions, Detroit Red Wings 2008 NBA Champions, Boston Celtics "Dissent Is the Highest Form of Patriotism" - This still applies, right?

12-31-02, 01:57 PM	#8
tor_greg DVD Talk Platinum Edition Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 3,956	The two Blue wizards went into the East and were responsible for forming "occult groups." Also, all of the wizards except for Gandalf strayed from their mission.