DVD Smurf

Do not read any of this! The whole thing is a spoiler!!!!

Frailty, I give it 9/10 for the acting and the dilemma that the film leaves the audience with at the end. The film in itself was rather disturbing and the twist at the end was very interesting. Nevertheless, the film left me with some unanswered questions, which I believe is left to the audience to figure out at the end. I am perplexed with the notion that God told a grown man to tell his children that they had to kill demons. Moreover, I got the feeling that “God” helped drive Fenton into insanity by making him a witness the murder of the “demons”, which was a wish from God. One question that I would like to ask is what kind of “God” is this? Isn’t this God a little bloodthirsty? I guess, Fenton lost his faith when he witnessed the horrid acts that his dad committed, and isn’t that in away “Gods” fault? My question is not to arise a Christian debate, but a more philosophical debate on existentialism and a higher power. Anyway, I found this dilemma to be very interesting, and wonder what your thought are on this, if you have seen Frailty.

I have just changed my opinion on the grade from a 7 to 9, based on my notion of my own notion of god and Christianity. This time I viewed it with a more open mind and tried to keep away all my preconcieved notions. And yes, this is truely a very good story.

Cheers,

DVD Smurf

Dr. DVD

I too saw Frailty tonight, but I would give it an 8/10. I really emjoyed the film and thought it was very well made. However, I too was left feeling somewhat baffled at the end. Obviously we are meant to think that "God" blurred the images on the videotape at the end as he could save the Meeks from being seen. Like you said Smurf, this is not the kind of God I believe in, nor am I willing to say that it was really God in the movie. I suppose it could all go back to how one reads the Bible. Problem was: Adam Meeks could be seen as the good guy since he was hunting down an evil doer. However, it seemed a total opposite of the Bible's stance on vengeance.

That said, this film's ending was very similar to Unbreakable IMO, except it had less of an upbeat note to it.

Tony Block

Didn't a good Christian woman down in Texas just drown her 5 kids. Of course, I blame this more on her husband. I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that besides dominating her emotionally and psychologically, and making her believe that Satan would make their kids do evil things, he physically beat her, tormented her and terrified her.

That said, I give the film a 9 out of 10



cheers, Tony Block

deadlax

It was proven that many more than 6 demons were killed. There had to be at least 15 bodies that were visible in the rose garden at the end.

However, when the father touched Fenton without the gloves on, he did not feel the presence of a demon. But when Adam shakes the FBI agent's hand at the end, he knows that he is "Good."

Also, Fenton had yet to do anything wrong when "God" accused him of being a demon. Every other "demon" had done something apparently sinful in their life.

I enjoyed the flick, but am left confused at these occurences.

GoldenJCJ

Well, this is definately one of those must see it twice type movies to really figure out was was going on. But to answer a couple of your questions (maybe).

They had to wait until that "demons" name appeared on their list. Only then could they "destroy" them. Fenton's name didn't appear on Adam's list until they were adults, which means that when Fenton's Dad touched him he didn't feel that he was a demon because Fenton had yet to commit his sinful act (killing his father, possibly?)

I guess it could be argued that "God" could see that Fenton was going to commit an evil act sometime in the future.

AJP

Extreme Spoilers! Do Not Read Unless You Have Seen This Movie!


I must admit I was also somewhat baffled by the sudden shift in tone of this film when I saw it this afternoon. While I basically had the end (well, at least the end of Powers Boothe's character & McConaughey's identity) figured out ahead of time, I thought that the point of the film was going to be that the father had indoctrinated one son into his delusional insanity and profoundly traumatized the other.

I was totally repulsed by the actions of Fenton's dad and so was the audience I saw it with. People were groaning when he brought out the children for the "destruction" of the "demons" and involved his kids in the burials. They groaned some more when he had Fenton build his serial killer bunker and then imprisoned him in it.

They hated Fenton's dad so much that people cheered when Fenton plunged the axe into his Dad. And then we get not just one or two, but three events to tell us that the apparent psychopaths are genuine soldiers of God!

So I just watched a film in which the good guys use serial killer tactics, abuse their children and are just about as frightening as the "demons". Even though they went to some pains to show that the "demons" were indeed evil at the end of the film, I was still left unconvinced that the end of their eliminations justified the rather nasty means. Perhaps that is just what this film wants you to question, if anything at all, but I am still not entirely sure what to make of it.

JaxComet

There weren't enough people in the theater this afternoon for me to notice if anyone was groaning. There were five counting me.

I wonder how much the flick made this weekend. Are people so numb these days that this is not considered a mainstream film?

Anyhow, I liked it.....

Geofferson

I saw it Friday night and liked it very much. I left with a few unanswered questions though...

1) Was there any significance with the name "otis" inscribed on the axe?

2) I heard the name "Curtis" mentioned a handful of times during the movie. At the end, at the sheriff's office, a man walks in while the FBI agent is talking to Adam Meeks, and his name is Curtis. I'm guessing I just overlooked something here, but am still perplexed.

3)Fenton's father said Fenton was a demon, but never said why?

Groucho

Not that I could gather. Obviously, that was the name of the guy who owned it before Dad took it from the barn. For storytelling purposes, I believe the name was on the axe so that the audience would recognize it when Adam kills the FBI Agent.

An angel told him.

I didn't notice the Curtis thing, so I can't help you there.

I just read Ebert's 4-star review and a sentence of his puzzles me:

What is he talking about? The film contains several shots indicating that Dad really is doing God's will.

Big Boy Laroux

yes, there are spoilers here... but the thread says to expect them, so i'm not going to use tags.

i saw this yesterday... and i saw changing lanes saturday night. while i enjoyed both movies, i think frailty was the better of the two. in fact, i think frailty is definitely among the best movies of 2002 so far...

and of course the question is:

is it really god's work? or are they just crazy? well, there are obviously indications that it is god's work. but as the viewer, we can not think that god would instruct a man to kill other people, so we want to think that they are insane...

like a lot of you have mentioned above, i figured out that it was actually Adam (the younger brother) in the car with the FBI agent. and i think this is the only downfall of the movie: the fact that Adam had fair hair and fenton had dark hair. the more the movie showed younger Adam, then cut to older adam in the car, it became obvious. they should have had kids and their corresponding adults that both had dark hair or fair hair or whatever. they didn't have to be identical, just not as contrasting.

the movie did a good job of being grisly without actually showing anything... in fact, the only blood i remember seeing was when they reveal the sins of the FBI agent. but the one part where everyone jumped, and it freaked the hell out of me, too, was when the dad had just gotten axed, everything is peaceful, then adam comes running out with the axe...

so if adam told the whole story pretending he was fenton, did he just make up a lot of it? i mean, how could adam have known what fenton was going through? and apparently, fenton went insane and became a serial killer. so was adam a serial killer, too? i guess that's the question one has to answer for themselves.

also, the last scene was kind of eerie... you find out that the woman in the sheriff's office is his wife, she lied for him, and she's pregnant... so the cycle will more than likely continue with adam's child...

i thought the scene when paxton finds the axe was interesting. i would have liked to have seen what brought him to select the pipe as the other weapon... as well as the sins of the other two victims... what was the sin of the woman? she killed some guy? that kind of flashed by quickly.

and one last thing. apparently, no one ever goes to the rose garden anymore! that had to be the most obvious burial ground i have ever seen! lumps of dirt where the bodies were... pathetic burial skills.

Groucho

Clearly, some supernatural force that claims to be "God" is guiding both Dad and Adam to destroy evildoers. Whether this is truly God, or the Devil, or something else entirely is up to the viewer to decide.



Great moment. The movie otherwise didn't rely on shocks, so that was a nice surprise.

I'm guessing that Adam made the "graves" deliberately obvious for Doyle's benefit.

Big Boy Laroux

one more thing i forgot to add. i thought the acting in this movie was very good. normally, i don't think paxton is that good. but he was good. and McConaughey was pretty creepy.

on ebert and roeper, they said that in a movie that relies so much on child actors, if they can't act, the movie suffers. they commended the kid actors, and so will i. i thought they were very good.

GoldenJCJ

I only noticed one instance of the name Curtis, toward the beginning when we see young Adam and Fenton in their beds adam leans over to Fenton and calls him Curtis. (I actually thought it was a mistake when I realized his name was Fenton. I stayed to watch the end credits to see what the actor's name was that played Fenton, but it wasn't Curtis. After that I figured I must have heard little Adam wrong)

Sorry, I don't have any answer for you but I'm also curious as to the significance (if any) of the name Curtis.

Where else in the film did they mention Curtis?

Big Boy Laroux

adam does indeed call fenton curtis... i thought that was weird, too... and then the old guy at the end is named curtis. but i don't remember any other instances.

Phyre

uh no he doesn't, adam calls his pet bug or whatever in the jar Curtis. It even says Curtis on the jar.

Big Boy Laroux

ah, you're right phyre... he says "good night, curtis." must have been talking to his spider (i think it was a spider). good point. i stand corrected.

Groucho

Note to beginning screenwriters: never name two characters (even insignificant ones) with the same name to avoid mass confusion.

"We can't go around calling somebody 'Old Curtis'!"

rkndkn

Because Adam truly was able to see the demon visions like his father (and not just telling his father that he could for his approval when he was young), wasn't Adam following the "demon quest" in his adulthood? That's why he kills Fenton when Fenton's name finally shows up on the "demon list". Also, when Adam shakes the FBI agent's hand in the final scene, he's relieved the agent IS a "good man" as he tells him, since he didn't get the demon aura off of him. (And God protected Adam by preventing the agent from recognizing him from the night he saw Adam speaking to Agent Doyle, as well as protecting him by blurring his image on the videotape.)

Please refresh my memory -- how exactly did the wife cover for Adam? Was this in saying that Fenton had stolen the ambulance with a body in it? Is that the body that is supposedly found at Fenton's place later in the film, when they say "there's a body, but it's not Doyle"? That ambulance bit confuses me.

Big Boy Laroux

she covers for him in this way:

Doyle calls Meat, TX to see if "fenton's" story checks out. she says that fenton had just been there and took the ambulance with his brother's body. if she had said "no, adam came and took fenton's body," then doyle would have known. she lied and covered for adam, so he could get doyle.

also, they said there were other bodies in the basement because that's where fenton kept his (adam says this).

and as far as adam being a serial killer or not, i know he saw the visions. i didn't miss that. i meant it's up to the audience to believe if he is actually doing the same thing as fenton (killing innocent people) or if they really believe that God had a hand in this.

i'll say again, great film.

rkndkn

Thanks, Big Boy Laroux for clarifying that point! The more I think about the film, I admire it more than my initial "good" reaction.

slymer

Some of those bodies were Fenton's victims.
Great film. Sadly, there were only 3 other people in the theater besides my friend, my brother, and I.

Big Boy Laroux

Adam specifically said that Fenton kept his bodies in his basement. also, when the FBI agents raided Fenton's house, they found Doyle's wallet. the agents said they found bodies down in the basement, but none were doyle's. all of the bodies in the rose garden were adam's "demons." there were indeed more than 6, so it means that adam had taken over his dad's mission for some time now.

Frank TJ Mackey

what a terrific and surprising piece of work
for Bill Paxton.

very creepy, kids were good actors, matthew mconnaughey (sp?)
was enjoyable to watch once again.

He gets disgustingly brownnose-ish at times when there's a love interest involved.

there were few people at my theatre too but who cares...it was cheap to make and it'll make some cash before it's all over.

***1/2 out of 4 stars.

highly recommended

audrey

Ok...I’ll crawl out on a limb and take the minority position. Despite some strong performances and a number of intriguing scenes, I found Frailty largely unengaging. Too many elements of the movie did not ring true to me and jerked me out of the experience. For example:

* The young man is allowed to wait in the FBI agent’s office where crime scene photos hang on the wall (sure, that could happen)

* The agent drives off alone with the young man at night in a rainstorm in search of the bodies (uh huh)

* The agent does not involve other agents or even let others know where he’s going (right)

* The agent murdered his mom and thus deserved the angle’s wrath. Ok, I’ll let this one slide since it’s a movie, but that scene struck me as contrived and hokey. Perhaps with some additional background the matricide might have worked for me or maybe another crime might have been more palatable.

Since Frailty is largely a reality-based mystery/thriller, these (and other) implausible elements diminished what might have been a powerful and convincing drama.

TCG

Frailty just became the best movie I've seen this year, after LOTR.

As to audrey's points:
- I believe its possible for someone to wait in an FBI office. I could be wrong.
- as far as the FBI agent knew, adam was making it all up. He couldn't gather up a force of agents to explore someone's story one night.
- Good point. You'd think he would tell someone, but perhaps the filmmakers could argue that God erased their memories.
- i understand how u see it as contrived. But Doyle's murder is the entire reason Adam went to his office; to trick him by telling him the story, and then to "destroy" him.

PS: I LOVED that cgi scene where Paxton sees the angel with the flaming sword come to him. Just SO cool.

BTW, Paxton said judgment day was imminent, yet it had not happened since 1979!