DONNIE DARKO -- Disussion Thread
03-20-02, 02:10 AM
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DONNIE DARKO -- Disussion Thread
This was a good movie, but I just didn't get the ending. I really wanted to love this movie, but the total confusion that it left me with is a little frustrating and disatisfying. There are so many plot points that I just don't understand. Did all of the characters go back in time, or just Donnie? or just the jet Engine? What was the point of Drew Barrymore's character? What was the point of the chubby Asian girl? What was the significance of the letter to the old woman, and her waiting for it, and so on. The questions go on and on. Can someone please give me your thoughts?
03-20-02, 02:53 AM
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Like you, I really wanted to like it too but I just cant shake the feeling that the director was trying way too hard (this was his first film, no?) and should have left some things out. I want to "understand" the movie but I cant help but think it's one of those trying-to-be-deliberately-confusing-so-as-to-seem-deep type films. Of course, I'm probably wrong, I dunno.
03-20-02, 01:43 PM
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Listen to the lyrics of the brilliant Tears For Fears cover because it explains an awful lot:
"I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
That the dreams where I am dying are the best I've ever had"
This is how I interpret the film:
"I find it kind of funny
I find it kind of sad
That the dreams where I am dying are the best I've ever had"
This is how I interpret the film:
Spoiler:
03-20-02, 02:50 PM
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I have felt the itchings to write an essay about the thematics at work in the film.
Suffice it to say, I recommend you read about Nietzsche's theory of Eternal Recurrence. That may make you think about it in a new way. Or not.
Suffice it to say, I recommend you read about Nietzsche's theory of Eternal Recurrence. That may make you think about it in a new way. Or not.
03-21-02, 02:21 AM
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I rarely bump my own threads, but I really want to hear some more opinions on this movie. I guess I am still looking for some more interpretations.
03-21-02, 04:53 AM
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Just watched this movie the other day, and WoW!
I really dug it. If you want answers, the film was left open-ended on purpose...but if you want to know what the director intended watch the DVD with the commentary track. Very interesting.
I really dug it. If you want answers, the film was left open-ended on purpose...but if you want to know what the director intended watch the DVD with the commentary track. Very interesting.
03-21-02, 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by Bruce
I really dug it. If you want answers, the film was left open-ended on purpose...but if you want to know what the director intended watch the DVD with the commentary track. Very interesting.
I really dug it. If you want answers, the film was left open-ended on purpose...but if you want to know what the director intended watch the DVD with the commentary track. Very interesting.
I was hoping for some more substantive discussion of the themes of the film. Do tell whether this discussion magically appears towards the end of the commentary?
03-21-02, 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by grunter
Really? The commentary track was interesting? You could have fooled me because that was the one element of the disc that I was sorely disappointed with. I listened to the first half hour, got tired of the inane "you remember when we shot this scene? it was like 2 a.m. in the morning, dude!!" comments and shut it off.
I was hoping for some more substantive discussion of the themes of the film. Do tell whether this discussion magically appears towards the end of the commentary?
Really? The commentary track was interesting? You could have fooled me because that was the one element of the disc that I was sorely disappointed with. I listened to the first half hour, got tired of the inane "you remember when we shot this scene? it was like 2 a.m. in the morning, dude!!" comments and shut it off.
I was hoping for some more substantive discussion of the themes of the film. Do tell whether this discussion magically appears towards the end of the commentary?
03-27-02, 03:43 AM
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Hey Lothaerius, good points. I just thought of something. You said that the old lady didn't play a part. I hope I am recalling correctly (it's been a while now), but if you think about it...
Could this be significant?
Spoiler:
Could this be significant?
03-27-02, 07:48 AM
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I read an interview with the director where he stated that the philosophy of time travel book explains what he intended the logic behind the story to be. That's why it's on the DVD and the website. Unfortunately, the print is so small on the DVD that I can only make out bits and pieces of it and I can't seem to get the website to come up. If it's not a violation of copyright laws and someone with a good, big television wanted to, it'd be great to see the contents of the book posted on here in spoilers. I did get the gist that it tried to address the paradoxes within the film.
03-27-02, 10:09 AM
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Philosophy of Time Travel
Here are the book's contents, transcribed from the website:
Foreward
I would like to thank the sisters of the Saint John Chapter in Alexandria, Virginia for their support in my decision.
By the grace of God, they are:
Sister Eleanor Lewis
Sister Francesca Godani
Sister Helen Davis
Sister Catherine Arnold
Sister Marry Lee Pond
Sister Virginia Wessex
The intent of this short book is for it to be used as a simple and direct guide in a time of great danger.
I pray that this is merely a work of fiction.
If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book.
If I am still alive when the events foretold in these pages occur, then I hope that you will find me before it is too late.
Roberta Ann Sparrow
October, 1944
Chapter 1
The Tangent Universe
The Primary Universe is fraught with great peril. War, plague, famine and natural disaster are common. Death comes to us all.
The Fourth Dimension of Time is a stable construct, though it is not impenetrable.
Incidents when the fabric of the fourth dimension becomes corrupted are incredibly rare.
If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks.
Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.
Chapter 2
Water and Metal
Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.
Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex.
Metal is the transitional element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.
Chapter 4
The Artifact and the Living
When a Tangent Universe occurs, those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world.
Artifacts provide the first sign that a Tangent Universe has occurred.
If an Artifact occurs, the Living will retrieve it with great interest and curiosity. Artifacts are formed from metal, such as an Arrowhead from an ancient Mayan civilization, or a Metal Sword from Medieval Europe.
Artifacts returned to the Primary Universe are often linked to religious Iconography, as their appearance on Earth seems to defy logical explanation.
Divine Intervention is deemed the only logical conclusion for the appearance of the Artifact.
Chapter 6
The Living Receiver
The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artifact into position for its journey back to the Primary Universe.
No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen.
The Living Receiver is often blessed with a Fourth Dimensional Powers. These include increased strength, telekinesis, mind control, and the ability to conjure fire and water.
The Living Receiver is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions and auditory hallucinations during his time within the Tangent Universe.
Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.
Chapter 7
The Manipulated Living
The Manipulated Living are often the close friends and neighbors of the Living Receiver.
They are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behavior. His is the unfortunate result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in returning the Artifact to the Primary Universe.
The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion.
Chater ??
The Manipulated Dead
The Manipulated Dead are more powerful than the Living Receiver. If a person dies within the Tangent Dimension, they are able to contact the Living Receiver through the Fourth Dimensional Construct.
The Fourth Dimensional Construct is made of Water.
The Manipulated Dead will manipulate the Living Receiver using the Fourth Dimensional Construct (see Appendix A and B).
The Manipulated Dead will often set an Endurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.
If the Endurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black Hole collapses upon itself.
Chapter 12
Dreams
When the Manipulated awaken from their Journey into the Tangent Universe, they are often haunted by the experience in their dreams.
Many of them will not remember.
Those who do remember the Journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions buried within their Dreams, the only physical evidence buried within the Artifact itself, all that remains from the lost world.
Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found.
We are told of the Medieval Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built.
We are told that these things occur for a reason.
Foreward
I would like to thank the sisters of the Saint John Chapter in Alexandria, Virginia for their support in my decision.
By the grace of God, they are:
Sister Eleanor Lewis
Sister Francesca Godani
Sister Helen Davis
Sister Catherine Arnold
Sister Marry Lee Pond
Sister Virginia Wessex
The intent of this short book is for it to be used as a simple and direct guide in a time of great danger.
I pray that this is merely a work of fiction.
If it is not, then I pray for you, the reader of this book.
If I am still alive when the events foretold in these pages occur, then I hope that you will find me before it is too late.
Roberta Ann Sparrow
October, 1944
Chapter 1
The Tangent Universe
The Primary Universe is fraught with great peril. War, plague, famine and natural disaster are common. Death comes to us all.
The Fourth Dimension of Time is a stable construct, though it is not impenetrable.
Incidents when the fabric of the fourth dimension becomes corrupted are incredibly rare.
If a Tangent Universe occurs, it will be highly unstable, sustaining itself for no longer than several weeks.
Eventually it will collapse upon itself, forming a black hole within the Primary Universe capable of destroying all existence.
Chapter 2
Water and Metal
Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.
Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex.
Metal is the transitional element for the construction of Artifact Vessels.
Chapter 4
The Artifact and the Living
When a Tangent Universe occurs, those living nearest to the Vortex will find themselves at the epicenter of a dangerous new world.
Artifacts provide the first sign that a Tangent Universe has occurred.
If an Artifact occurs, the Living will retrieve it with great interest and curiosity. Artifacts are formed from metal, such as an Arrowhead from an ancient Mayan civilization, or a Metal Sword from Medieval Europe.
Artifacts returned to the Primary Universe are often linked to religious Iconography, as their appearance on Earth seems to defy logical explanation.
Divine Intervention is deemed the only logical conclusion for the appearance of the Artifact.
Chapter 6
The Living Receiver
The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artifact into position for its journey back to the Primary Universe.
No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen.
The Living Receiver is often blessed with a Fourth Dimensional Powers. These include increased strength, telekinesis, mind control, and the ability to conjure fire and water.
The Living Receiver is often tormented by terrifying dreams, visions and auditory hallucinations during his time within the Tangent Universe.
Those surrounding the Living Receiver, known as the Manipulated, will fear him and try to destroy him.
Chapter 7
The Manipulated Living
The Manipulated Living are often the close friends and neighbors of the Living Receiver.
They are prone to irrational, bizarre, and often violent behavior. His is the unfortunate result of their task, which is to assist the Living Receiver in returning the Artifact to the Primary Universe.
The Manipulated Living will do anything to save themselves from Oblivion.
Chater ??
The Manipulated Dead
The Manipulated Dead are more powerful than the Living Receiver. If a person dies within the Tangent Dimension, they are able to contact the Living Receiver through the Fourth Dimensional Construct.
The Fourth Dimensional Construct is made of Water.
The Manipulated Dead will manipulate the Living Receiver using the Fourth Dimensional Construct (see Appendix A and B).
The Manipulated Dead will often set an Endurance Trap for the Living Receiver to ensure that the Artifact is returned safely to the Primary Universe.
If the Endurance Trap is successful, the Living Receiver is left with no choice but to use his Fourth Dimensional Power to send the Artifact back in time into the Primary Universe before the Black Hole collapses upon itself.
Chapter 12
Dreams
When the Manipulated awaken from their Journey into the Tangent Universe, they are often haunted by the experience in their dreams.
Many of them will not remember.
Those who do remember the Journey are often overcome with profound remorse for the regretful actions buried within their Dreams, the only physical evidence buried within the Artifact itself, all that remains from the lost world.
Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found.
We are told of the Medieval Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built.
We are told that these things occur for a reason.
03-27-02, 04:17 PM
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You're right about the old lady, caiman, I'd forgotten that part. With the help of the information that jericho88 graciously posted, here are some further thoughts:
Spoiler:
03-27-02, 07:34 PM
#19
According to the director's commentary, the guy in the orange jumpsuit is one of the FAA investigators, who has been assigned to keep a close watch on Donnie in the matter of the falling jet engine...
03-27-02, 11:41 PM
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Alright caiman, I think we're both starting to think about this a little too hard . . . but I'm having fun so how about this:
Spoiler:
Last edited by Lothaerius; 03-27-02 at 11:47 PM.
03-28-02, 08:43 AM
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Great discussion. I think I agree with the conclusions that have been reached in the thread. Just wanted to thank Jericho for taking the time to post the book.
03-28-02, 10:31 AM
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I don't know about everyone else, but for me, as soon as the whole Tangent Universe explanation started getting discussed, it really took away from the film.
I haven't listened to the commentaries yet, as I haven't had the chance, but I look forward to doing so.
Nevertheless, on my own I was trying to figure out what meaning the story held and what motivated the characters. It seemed that there was a much more in depth study of the effects of post-Vietnam conservativism and how it affected the family unit. If you watch the deleted scenes, the director says that Francis Ford Coppola read the script and told him that the meaning of the story was in the line "the children have to take care of themselves," or whatever it was exactly, which eventually got cut from the movie anyway (d'oh). I think Coppola was thinking along the same lines as me.
Then all this Tangent Universe stuff comes out, which is entertaining, but not as deep as I thought. Maybe this film has what Sidney Lumet refers to as the unintended third meaning (the first 2 being what the writer and the director intended).
I don't know, it just seems a lot less complex that I had hoped.
I haven't listened to the commentaries yet, as I haven't had the chance, but I look forward to doing so.
Nevertheless, on my own I was trying to figure out what meaning the story held and what motivated the characters. It seemed that there was a much more in depth study of the effects of post-Vietnam conservativism and how it affected the family unit. If you watch the deleted scenes, the director says that Francis Ford Coppola read the script and told him that the meaning of the story was in the line "the children have to take care of themselves," or whatever it was exactly, which eventually got cut from the movie anyway (d'oh). I think Coppola was thinking along the same lines as me.
Then all this Tangent Universe stuff comes out, which is entertaining, but not as deep as I thought. Maybe this film has what Sidney Lumet refers to as the unintended third meaning (the first 2 being what the writer and the director intended).
I don't know, it just seems a lot less complex that I had hoped.
04-02-02, 12:37 PM
#25
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Has anyone browsed through the Web Site Gallery on the DVD? It contains some very interesting information about what happend after
Some interesting tidbits are:
There are a few other things too. Pretty interesting.
Spoiler:
Some interesting tidbits are:
Spoiler:
There are a few other things too. Pretty interesting.