harosa

Litza, when I came in here recommending the movie I clearly did so as a fighting fan and that is where my opinion on the lack of subtitles came from, this was clear from my initial posts. The artistry and ingenuinety of the fight and chase scenes were what I was recommending to movie fight fans, I felt what the filmmakers were doing was so strong in these respects that they made a universal film for fight fans that could be appreciated beyond language barriers.Should I have S-P-E-L-L-E-D it out? Maybe-I thought it was clear in my initial posts

John Spartan

Litza, I hate to burst your bubble of hypocrisy, but I suggest that you review your own messages before making any calls for civility. Your biting, obnoxious sarcasm does not make for a civil discussion and any hostility you receive as a result should be expected.




Have you heard of the term "false analogy"? It's a type of logical fallacy and you're engaging in it.

Pan & Scan/Alteration = Taking away from the film. You are removing something permanently from it that will make it incomplete no matter who is watching it. Imagine the film were a statue and you broke off the head and discarded it. It would never be whole no matter who saw it.

No Subs = The statue is all there, but the viewer just has trouble focussing on it. But it's all there before him. Gettings subs would be like getting a pair of glasses to see it a bit better. HOWEVER, unless you can understand the original language, you are NEVER seeing it "the way the filmmakers intended it to be seen". You're fooling yourself if you think even the best subtitles will give you most of the nuance. Having subs is simply getting a pair of imperfect glasses that sharpen things but do not give you 20/20 vision.

By the way, how did I make it "obvious" that it would take "a whole lot of work" to get 90% of the film? You read a small paragraph on the film and then you watch it. That's a whole lot of work?

But there's a more important issue which would've saved us all a lot of typing...

...In your pitbull-like hurry to attack, you seem to ignore the fact that I am NOT saying that watching a film without subtitles is in any way preferable to seeing it with subtitles. Where are you getting that from? I'm merely suggesting that this particular film can be largely enjoyed without subtitles. Period. That's it. They're not better. Are you getting the entire experience? Nope. But you sure as hell are not taking anything away from it.

And your taking affront to harosa's suggestion that this movie can be enjoyed without subtitles is ridiculous and wrongheaded:

1) He didn't say it was BETTER. He simply said that you can take enjoyment from it. Your analogy that it's like watching pan&scan is inaccurate. What it boils down to is that you're irritated that he could feel enjoyment. That counts as ridiculous in my book.

2) I've mentioned this, but it's a big one: Subtitles do NOT give you what the director intended. The director never intended you to read words that appear over and compete with his images. He never intended you to read some translation of his script. And that's all subtitles are. You're reading the dialogue passages of a script. Can you read a script and say you've seen a movie? Nope. It just adds a bit more to the experience. You're going to have to learn to speak Thai if you want to rant convincingly about preserving the experience.

Bottomline: This film, Ong Bak, offers a combination of charms that can be largely enjoyed without any subtitles. In case you have difficulty understanding the English language or have a deep-seated neurosis that causes you to jump to conclusions, let me remind everyone that "largely" does not equate to "entirely" and that in no way is this an endorsement of the superiority of watching foreign language films without subtitles.

If that still bothers you, c'est la vie. I hope it works out for you. While you're waiting for the subtitled version to be released or your Thai language tapes to arrive, maybe you can use some of that time to contemplate the irony of a man who goes so far to protect the integrity of artistic expression that he becomes the definition of close-mindedness and obstinacy.

harosa

John Spartan, thank you.

axolotls return

I paid $12 for this movie. I can only understand 90% of it. I am demanding a $1.20 refund from the thai movie industry right now!!!

The good thing is even with no subtitles, there actually is english dialogue in the movie so, I guess I am short a buck.

harosa

Dont worry, when you actually view it with subtitles you'll know why he kicks the guy in the head while on fire.

eXcentris

Holy smokes, looks like I created a monster.

harosa

Arguements are the spice of life.

axolotls return

Too much spice gives you heartburn and ruins the flavor of the movie.

harosa

Under all this argueing Im thinking, this is all for a movie that if it were an american release no one on this page woulf give it a second glance. Probably be called Operation:Bloodsport 5 or something.

Hendrik

...the verb is to argue (with an 'e')

...but... it's arguments (without the 'e')...

...it is also arguing (also without the 'e')...

(signed) Passing Pedant

. . . . . .

harosa

Thank you, schmuck. I spell that right?

bobertkay99

I seriously think a moderator should close this thread, its just become a stage for people to constantly insult, and disrespect one another. Absolutely ridiculous.

isamu

I just ordered the DVD after discovering this movie on another forum. Appearantly it's the talk of the town and supposed to be THE greatest Martial Arts flick of all time, eclipsing the likes of Fist of Legend, Enter the Dragon, Drunken Master II, Iron Monkey etc etc.

So where are all the topics on this alledged "second coming" of Kung Fu movies? I personally can't wait to get my dvd in the mail!

Joe Molotov

I think you're a few months too late for the party.

eXcentris

I'm waiting for a version with English subs.

E Unit

I went on faith and got a copy from Ebay with the cover posted above. The seller does specifically state that it has EXCELLENT English subtitles and is not a bootleg. Judging from the feedback this seller has received, I have high hopes this will be a good dvd.

PinwiZ

I ordered that DVD from eBay as well a month or 2 ago. It does have english subtitles on it. I enjoyed the movie without subtitles, but I wanted to find out what the hell they were talking about (and some of my guesses were WAY off, the movie makes a lot more sense now).

I'm guessing that DVD is a bootleg, but, if they're not willing to put it out with english subtitles, then I guess that's going to happen.

Good movie though

axolotls return

BOOTLEG. You can easily find the subs online and remux them onto the Thai DVD

harosa

Isamu, I think the movie is fantastic, a definite throwback to the good old days before every damn kick and leap was done with the help of a damned wire.

Trigger

There have been threads about it, you just can't search for words that contain less than 4 letters.

isamu

THANK YOU!!! I rest my case!

Umm mods...care to fix that? ;P

benedict

1. Problems with the board software can be and are discussed in Feedback
2. At the moment you can search using the * wildcard e.g. "ong*"
3. Thread merged just for the hell of it!

Benedict
Moderator, International DVD Talk

isamu

j00 the man

harosa

Man, I remember arguing about this movie for a few days straight.

E Unit

Out of curiosity, how can you tell if the movie is subtitled this way? I just got my Region 0 copy from Ebay and it is a great copy. And the subtitles are removable and very clear. The picture itself could be cleaner but it is no way any kind of bootleg. And the 5.1 sound is extremely active. Only gripe is that all the extras do not have subtitles. Other than that, this copy is fantastic.
But I have never seen a bootleg copy where someone has remixed subtitles onto dvd.