View Poll Results: Would you be ok if physical media went away completely?
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If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
#176
DVD Talk Legend
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
What you cited in Vudu's terms of use doesn't specifically state they'll ever charge for maintaining a library, like you claimed. All you could cite was a general "fees are subject to change" clause, which you admitted is vague. While the clause allows for such a fee to be enacted, it doesn't state that any such fee is upcoming, now or ever.
And I don't recall you citing any historical evidence of any kind.
These services make money by having people purchase content on their platform. To that end, they want to make that platform as attractive as possible so that people will use it over competing services, and thus make purchases on it instead on competing services. Charging a free to "maintain" a user's library, especially when such a cost is only pennies to the service provider, doesn't make sense. They likely make more selling or renting a single copy than it costs them to stream hundreds of house of content. It doesn't make sense to make such a user-hostile move that would likely drive sales and rentals down more than they could possible hope to recover from such a bogus fee.
Add in that for some of those services, the content isn't even "locked in" and could be moved to a competitor, and it makes even less sense.
#177
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Even though I'm exclusively disc (ie. I never paid to download any movies/shows yet), I am most likely a negative contributor to the movie companies.
With the exception of Star Wars live action movies and a few tv shows, I rarely pay more than $5 a pop for blurays. I'm basically a discount store bottom feeder dump bin scavenger when it comes to optical discs.
I strongly suspect movie studios are not interested in folks like myself, who buy a lot of $5 (or less) blurays.
With the exception of Star Wars live action movies and a few tv shows, I rarely pay more than $5 a pop for blurays. I'm basically a discount store bottom feeder dump bin scavenger when it comes to optical discs.
I strongly suspect movie studios are not interested in folks like myself, who buy a lot of $5 (or less) blurays.
Last edited by morriscroy; 05-19-17 at 04:25 PM.
#178
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
And yet you haven't been able to provide any historical info or anything in their terms and conditions that support your argument.
What you cited in Vudu's terms of use doesn't specifically state they'll ever charge for maintaining a library, like you claimed. All you could cite was a general "fees are subject to change" clause, which you admitted is vague. While the clause allows for such a fee to be enacted, it doesn't state that any such fee is upcoming, now or ever.
And I don't recall you citing any historical evidence of any kind.
Sure, but never in the way you proposed will happen. in fact, the historical evidence has shown that the trend has been in the opposite direction, where digital download services initially didn't want to deal with supplying you with a copy of your purchase past the initial download, to them offering free unlimited streaming of any of your past purchases.
These services make money by having people purchase content on their platform. To that end, they want to make that platform as attractive as possible so that people will use it over competing services, and thus make purchases on it instead on competing services. Charging a free to "maintain" a user's library, especially when such a cost is only pennies to the service provider, doesn't make sense. They likely make more selling or renting a single copy than it costs them to stream hundreds of house of content. It doesn't make sense to make such a user-hostile move that would likely drive sales and rentals down more than they could possible hope to recover from such a bogus fee.
Add in that for some of those services, the content isn't even "locked in" and could be moved to a competitor, and it makes even less sense.
What you cited in Vudu's terms of use doesn't specifically state they'll ever charge for maintaining a library, like you claimed. All you could cite was a general "fees are subject to change" clause, which you admitted is vague. While the clause allows for such a fee to be enacted, it doesn't state that any such fee is upcoming, now or ever.
And I don't recall you citing any historical evidence of any kind.
Sure, but never in the way you proposed will happen. in fact, the historical evidence has shown that the trend has been in the opposite direction, where digital download services initially didn't want to deal with supplying you with a copy of your purchase past the initial download, to them offering free unlimited streaming of any of your past purchases.
These services make money by having people purchase content on their platform. To that end, they want to make that platform as attractive as possible so that people will use it over competing services, and thus make purchases on it instead on competing services. Charging a free to "maintain" a user's library, especially when such a cost is only pennies to the service provider, doesn't make sense. They likely make more selling or renting a single copy than it costs them to stream hundreds of house of content. It doesn't make sense to make such a user-hostile move that would likely drive sales and rentals down more than they could possible hope to recover from such a bogus fee.
Add in that for some of those services, the content isn't even "locked in" and could be moved to a competitor, and it makes even less sense.
Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 04:46 PM.
#179
DVD Talk Legend
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Not just your assumptions, but your assertions and your reasoning. You state that the terms of use clearly point to maintenance fees, when they very unclearly don't. You state that there's historical evidence supporting your assertion, when there isn't. You initially stated it as fact, when it's at best speculation. And whenever you're challenged, you try to shrug it off as just a difference of opinion, or attempt to deflect by attacking the person you're responding to (i.e. "are you just looking for an argument?").
What you originally stated like it was a fact is poor speculation based on no real historical precedent, a misunderstanding of how digital purchase services work and how they differ from subscription sites, and a misreading of the terms of use for said sites.
What you originally stated like it was a fact is poor speculation based on no real historical precedent, a misunderstanding of how digital purchase services work and how they differ from subscription sites, and a misreading of the terms of use for said sites.
#181
DVD Talk Legend
#184
DVD Talk Legend
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Talked to a few people last night who stopped buying physical media in favour of streaming and they all stated one of the biggest reason was cost.
One movie will cost you $20+ and that's all you have... one movie.
They all use Netflix and a second streaming service that varies - and they obviously have a much larger choice of material to watch every month for about $25-$30 a month in total. They don't own anything, but they're fine with that. They said that they rarely re-watch something anyway (although they still can with streaming services anyway) and just want to watch something they haven't seen before.
When you look at it from the perspective of entertainment value and money, it's easy to see why people choose to stream.
One movie will cost you $20+ and that's all you have... one movie.
They all use Netflix and a second streaming service that varies - and they obviously have a much larger choice of material to watch every month for about $25-$30 a month in total. They don't own anything, but they're fine with that. They said that they rarely re-watch something anyway (although they still can with streaming services anyway) and just want to watch something they haven't seen before.
When you look at it from the perspective of entertainment value and money, it's easy to see why people choose to stream.
#185
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
If one has a lot of patience, that $20+ movie eventually becomes a $2 (or $3) bluray disc in local dump bins.
(So far the only big exceptions to this, are Star Wars movies and some "limited edition" releases).
(So far the only big exceptions to this, are Star Wars movies and some "limited edition" releases).
#186
DVD Talk Legend
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
How long does one have to wait for a movie they're interested in to be available at that price range - if ever?
This won't sway someone from streaming - it just may get them to buy a movie they already saw, liked and plan to re-watch.
#187
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Some stuff shows up within 6-9 months into local dump bins, such as many smaller companies and/or really awful stuff such as The Asylum produced schlock (ie. Sharknado, etc ...).
Most generic action/scifi movies typically take a few years to tumble to less than $5 a pop.
The longest so far for me, would be the Marvel movies released by Disney. I'm still at around the early-2010s Paramount era Marvel films. (The Sony, Fox, and Universal released Marvel franchise films tumbled into dump bins a lot faster).
#188
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
When it comes to water cooler chatter at work, my co-workers know not to talk to me about current movies. They know that I don't watch any current movies in theaters or on premium cable channels.
We end up mostly talking about stuff on current tv shows on generic networks and some basic cable channels. For example, talking about what went on during this week's episodes from shows like Blindspot, The Blacklist, Scorpion, Quantico, etc ...
We end up mostly talking about stuff on current tv shows on generic networks and some basic cable channels. For example, talking about what went on during this week's episodes from shows like Blindspot, The Blacklist, Scorpion, Quantico, etc ...
#189
DVD Talk God
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Depends on the particular title.
Some stuff shows up within 6-9 months into local dump bins, such as many smaller companies and/or really awful stuff such as The Asylum produced schlock (ie. Sharknado, etc ...).
Most generic action/scifi movies typically take a few years to tumble to less than $5 a pop.
The longest so far for me, would be the Marvel movies released by Disney. I'm still at around the early-2010s Paramount era Marvel films. (The Sony, Fox, and Universal released Marvel franchise films tumbled into dump bins a lot faster).
Some stuff shows up within 6-9 months into local dump bins, such as many smaller companies and/or really awful stuff such as The Asylum produced schlock (ie. Sharknado, etc ...).
Most generic action/scifi movies typically take a few years to tumble to less than $5 a pop.
The longest so far for me, would be the Marvel movies released by Disney. I'm still at around the early-2010s Paramount era Marvel films. (The Sony, Fox, and Universal released Marvel franchise films tumbled into dump bins a lot faster).
But there are still many older and relatively popular movies that never go there. All 7 Fast and Furious movies are still selling for around $10/piece.
You will never see boutique titles from Shout/Scream there.
I think the stuff that still sells are popular summer blockbusters and hard to find niche titles with lots of extras.
I love that smaller companies like Shout exist to satisfy movie lovers and collectors of hard to find titles. I know someone like Coral who seems to only want to watch something once and that's it doesn't care about that.
And I'm sure there are many here who have really tight budgets and simply cannot afford to purchase new titles even on a semi regular basis.
Last edited by DJariya; 05-20-17 at 11:50 AM.
#190
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
So far I haven't seen any ShoutFactory blurays in dump bins.
Though ShoutFactory dvds show up every now and then in local dump bins, such as some of their older tv show season sets.
Several years ago I picked up two different bluray releases of Metropolis. One was the mid-80s Giorgio Moroder version, and the other one was the 2010 restored version with the "lost" footage found in a film archive in Argentina.
If Kino ever releases a bluray version of the original Outer Limits tv show, it will most likely be a first-week buy for me.
#191
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Back in the day, I use to watch They Live a lot from a prerecorded VHS copy.
I also use to watch the Weird Al UHF a lot, especially after I found a VHS copy in the "former rentals" bin at a then-local video rental store.
For these two ^ movies, I was willing to pay more than $5 for the blurays.
In terms of other ShoutFactory bluray titles, they haven't really released a lot of stuff which interests me a lot.
Last edited by morriscroy; 05-20-17 at 01:08 PM.
#192
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
In terms of 4Kbluray, so far I haven't seen any 4Kbluray movie discs yet in local dump bins.
Though once 4Kbluray discs start showing up in $5 dump bins (if ever), I might be tempted to finally pick up a 4Kbluray player AND a bluray computer drive which can read 4Kbluray discs (such as some current models manufactured by LG or Pioneer). For various technical reasons, I would rather use a Pioneer bluray computer drive than an LG bluray computer drive.
Though once 4Kbluray discs start showing up in $5 dump bins (if ever), I might be tempted to finally pick up a 4Kbluray player AND a bluray computer drive which can read 4Kbluray discs (such as some current models manufactured by LG or Pioneer). For various technical reasons, I would rather use a Pioneer bluray computer drive than an LG bluray computer drive.
#193
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
We're talking apples and oranges here. Not everybody is a collector. Many of us enjoy the tangible nature of this hobby not just the pleasure of watching the films and shows. I nearly have an orgasm when a new steelbook arrives from Zavvi. And although I haven't even watched it yet, I couldn't wait to stop by Best Buy to lay my hands on the "La La Land" steelbook. I have showed friends the elaboate box set of "The Ten Commandments," but to them it's just a film...to me it is a treasure. Some believe it's crazy to buy these discs and rest them on a shelf. I couldn't disagree more. At the end of a long week it's nice to peruse my collection which contains a wide variety of viewing options that can satisfy any mood. Collecting blu-ray discs pleasures me and what other people choose to do is their perogative. I prefer owning something tangible ..vaporware doesn't interest me at all. So it's my hope that there will be enough people who share my enthusiasm for collecting to keep physical media alive into the next decade.
I was particularly surprised this week to find nearly all of the Best Buy stores sold out of the "Mummy Collection" steelbook. These films have been widely available since the format's launch. Evidently, there is still a healthy number of people buying physical media. I may need resuscitation when my "Transformers" steelbook set arrives from Zavvi.
I was particularly surprised this week to find nearly all of the Best Buy stores sold out of the "Mummy Collection" steelbook. These films have been widely available since the format's launch. Evidently, there is still a healthy number of people buying physical media. I may need resuscitation when my "Transformers" steelbook set arrives from Zavvi.
Last edited by AaronSch; 05-20-17 at 01:39 PM.
#194
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
One thing I still insist on, are technical books in paper form.
Unfortunately many technical books I'm interested in, have not been digitally scanned yet. Also unfortunately that many older technical books which have already been digitally scanned, they were really lousy scans where many letters + equations didn't turn out right. It's annoying trying to figure out why a particular equation doesn't look right on a digital scanned page. (ie. Greek letters and mathematical symbols either missing or the wrong one).
To add insult to injury, is when the digital version of a technical book, is either the same price or more expensive than a brand new paper copy of the same technical book.
Current tablet readers are somewhat less than ideal for going through huge technical books which can be more than 500+ pages (or even over 1000+ pages).
#195
DVD Talk God
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
In terms of 4Kbluray, so far I haven't seen any 4Kbluray movie discs yet in local dump bins.
Though once 4Kbluray discs start showing up in $5 dump bins (if ever), I might be tempted to finally pick up a 4Kbluray player AND a bluray computer drive which can read 4Kbluray discs (such as some current models manufactured by LG or Pioneer). For various technical reasons, I would rather use a Pioneer bluray computer drive than an LG bluray computer drive.
Though once 4Kbluray discs start showing up in $5 dump bins (if ever), I might be tempted to finally pick up a 4Kbluray player AND a bluray computer drive which can read 4Kbluray discs (such as some current models manufactured by LG or Pioneer). For various technical reasons, I would rather use a Pioneer bluray computer drive than an LG bluray computer drive.
And good grief man, can you just get straight to the point on your posts? Most of your posts are nearly incoherent ramblings.
#196
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
#197
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
There was an interesting interview with one of the founders of Twilight Time over at DVD Authority:
Nick Redman "Twilight Time" regarding 4k Discs
Originally Posted by Nick Redman
I don’t own one myself [UHD Player] ... The biggest problem, and anybody who is honest will acknowledge it, about UHD is that the average person can not tell a difference between a Blu-Ray and a UHD. In other words, if you took a focus group of fifty people and you showed them a movie in Blu-Ray or UHD and didn’t tell them which is which, they don’t know which is which. And if people can’t tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray, there are people who can not tell the difference.
Last edited by AaronSch; 05-20-17 at 02:12 PM.
#198
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
Most of my local audiophile friends/in-laws/acquaintances couldn't figure out whether the Left and Right speakers were incorrectly placed or not. The only times they were able to spot the L/R inversion, was in a particular song which had a solo-guitar in only one of the speakers during a short segment, which they recognized immediately as being in the wrong speaker.
(More generally).
A better test would be a randomized A/B blind test between 4K and normal-HD on the same movie, where they don't know which version they're seeing at any time. One wants to see whether they can identify the 4K version, better than random guessing.
#199
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
If we all made purchases based on what the average person could appreciate, we'd all probably have mediocre LCD displays with the worst possible settings enabled, sound systems wouldn't extend any further than soundbars or the speakers built into TVs, etc.
Personally, I base my purchases on what I myself can appreciate, not on what friends, neighbors, or some random person I'll never meet can appreciate. That's not meant to be some kind of holy defense of UHD BD -- I don't own a UHD display and have literally never even seen a UHD BD in action -- but investing in new gear for incremental improvements over whatever came before it is part and parcel of the home theater game.
Sales of UHD BDs seem to be exceeding the very modest expectations that were set. It's not forever transforming everything we've come to know about home video, but the format's doing fine for what it is.
FWIW:
Sales of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc players are expected to top 1.4 million units in 2017, up 148% from 946,000 units sold in 2016, according to new data from Futuresource Consulting. The tally would represent 8% of the global Blu-ray player market.
“4K UHD broadcasts are still limited largely to sports. Higher-end consumers — especially in the U.S. and Western Europe — are turning to UHD Blu-ray players to access movie content. This growth will be aided by the release of approximately 250 UHD Blu-ray titles this year, in addition to the ever-growing base of 4K UHD TV owners,” senior market analyst Jack Wetherill said in a statement.
“4K UHD broadcasts are still limited largely to sports. Higher-end consumers — especially in the U.S. and Western Europe — are turning to UHD Blu-ray players to access movie content. This growth will be aided by the release of approximately 250 UHD Blu-ray titles this year, in addition to the ever-growing base of 4K UHD TV owners,” senior market analyst Jack Wetherill said in a statement.
Last edited by Adam Tyner; 05-20-17 at 03:40 PM.
#200
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?
I'll eventually pick up a 4K screen when my current hd screen either develops too many dead pixels and/or it dies outright.