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View Poll Results: Would you be ok if physical media went away completely?
Yes 17 22.08%
No 45 58.44%
What are you high? 15 19.48%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-19-17, 03:45 PM   #176
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
I think what I have argued epitomizes logic. Historical information is plentiful as are the contents of their own terms and conditions.
And yet you haven't been able to provide any historical info or anything in their terms and conditions that support your argument.

What you cited in Vudu's terms of use doesn't specifically state they'll ever charge for maintaining a library, like you claimed. All you could cite was a general "fees are subject to change" clause, which you admitted is vague. While the clause allows for such a fee to be enacted, it doesn't state that any such fee is upcoming, now or ever.

And I don't recall you citing any historical evidence of any kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
The studios have demonstrated repeated attempts over the years to exploit their catalogs in any number of ways...
Sure, but never in the way you proposed will happen. in fact, the historical evidence has shown that the trend has been in the opposite direction, where digital download services initially didn't want to deal with supplying you with a copy of your purchase past the initial download, to them offering free unlimited streaming of any of your past purchases.

These services make money by having people purchase content on their platform. To that end, they want to make that platform as attractive as possible so that people will use it over competing services, and thus make purchases on it instead on competing services. Charging a free to "maintain" a user's library, especially when such a cost is only pennies to the service provider, doesn't make sense. They likely make more selling or renting a single copy than it costs them to stream hundreds of house of content. It doesn't make sense to make such a user-hostile move that would likely drive sales and rentals down more than they could possible hope to recover from such a bogus fee.

Add in that for some of those services, the content isn't even "locked in" and could be moved to a competitor, and it makes even less sense.
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Old 05-19-17, 03:49 PM   #177
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Even though I'm exclusively disc (ie. I never paid to download any movies/shows yet), I am most likely a negative contributor to the movie companies.

With the exception of Star Wars live action movies and a few tv shows, I rarely pay more than $5 a pop for blurays. I'm basically a discount store bottom feeder dump bin scavenger when it comes to optical discs.

I strongly suspect movie studios are not interested in folks like myself, who buy a lot of $5 (or less) blurays.

Last edited by morriscroy; 05-19-17 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 05-19-17, 04:28 PM   #178
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
And yet you haven't been able to provide any historical info or anything in their terms and conditions that support your argument.

What you cited in Vudu's terms of use doesn't specifically state they'll ever charge for maintaining a library, like you claimed. All you could cite was a general "fees are subject to change" clause, which you admitted is vague. While the clause allows for such a fee to be enacted, it doesn't state that any such fee is upcoming, now or ever.

And I don't recall you citing any historical evidence of any kind.


Sure, but never in the way you proposed will happen. in fact, the historical evidence has shown that the trend has been in the opposite direction, where digital download services initially didn't want to deal with supplying you with a copy of your purchase past the initial download, to them offering free unlimited streaming of any of your past purchases.

These services make money by having people purchase content on their platform. To that end, they want to make that platform as attractive as possible so that people will use it over competing services, and thus make purchases on it instead on competing services. Charging a free to "maintain" a user's library, especially when such a cost is only pennies to the service provider, doesn't make sense. They likely make more selling or renting a single copy than it costs them to stream hundreds of house of content. It doesn't make sense to make such a user-hostile move that would likely drive sales and rentals down more than they could possible hope to recover from such a bogus fee.

Add in that for some of those services, the content isn't even "locked in" and could be moved to a competitor, and it makes even less sense.
So tedious. I don't agree with your assumptions. You disagree with mine. I think you are wrong. You think I am wrong. Anything else you need? 'Cause I am not going to acquiesce. I'm keeping my physical discs. You can donate yours to charity, sell them, give them to family, whatever floats your boat buddy. I am gonna err on the probability that I am right. So I guess its time for you to march down to the pawn shop and stop visiting DVDTalk, no?
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Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 05-19-17, 04:47 PM   #179
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
I don't agree with your assumptions. You disagree with mine.
Not just your assumptions, but your assertions and your reasoning. You state that the terms of use clearly point to maintenance fees, when they very unclearly don't. You state that there's historical evidence supporting your assertion, when there isn't. You initially stated it as fact, when it's at best speculation. And whenever you're challenged, you try to shrug it off as just a difference of opinion, or attempt to deflect by attacking the person you're responding to (i.e. "are you just looking for an argument?").

What you originally stated like it was a fact is poor speculation based on no real historical precedent, a misunderstanding of how digital purchase services work and how they differ from subscription sites, and a misreading of the terms of use for said sites.
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Old 05-19-17, 07:59 PM   #180
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Holy cow!

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
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Old 05-19-17, 08:16 PM   #181
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Holy cow!

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Are you referring to your own actions?
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Old 05-19-17, 08:19 PM   #182
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Aaron, you're a good guy, but don'tcha be messin' with Jay G.
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Old 05-20-17, 09:17 AM   #183
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Aaron, you're a good guy, but don'tcha be messin' with Jay G.
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Old 05-20-17, 10:34 AM   #184
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Talked to a few people last night who stopped buying physical media in favour of streaming and they all stated one of the biggest reason was cost.

One movie will cost you $20+ and that's all you have... one movie.
They all use Netflix and a second streaming service that varies - and they obviously have a much larger choice of material to watch every month for about $25-$30 a month in total. They don't own anything, but they're fine with that. They said that they rarely re-watch something anyway (although they still can with streaming services anyway) and just want to watch something they haven't seen before.

When you look at it from the perspective of entertainment value and money, it's easy to see why people choose to stream.
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Old 05-20-17, 10:36 AM   #185
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Coral View Post

One movie will cost you $20+ and that's all you have... one movie.
If one has a lot of patience, that $20+ movie eventually becomes a $2 (or $3) bluray disc in local dump bins.

(So far the only big exceptions to this, are Star Wars movies and some "limited edition" releases).
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Old 05-20-17, 10:44 AM   #186
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
If one has a lot of patience, that $20+ movie eventually becomes a $2 (or $3) bluray disc in local dump bins.
Definitely. But like you said, lots of patience.
How long does one have to wait for a movie they're interested in to be available at that price range - if ever?

This won't sway someone from streaming - it just may get them to buy a movie they already saw, liked and plan to re-watch.
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Old 05-20-17, 10:53 AM   #187
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Coral View Post
How long does one have to wait for a movie they're interested in to be available at that price range - if ever?
Depends on the particular title.

Some stuff shows up within 6-9 months into local dump bins, such as many smaller companies and/or really awful stuff such as The Asylum produced schlock (ie. Sharknado, etc ...).

Most generic action/scifi movies typically take a few years to tumble to less than $5 a pop.

The longest so far for me, would be the Marvel movies released by Disney. I'm still at around the early-2010s Paramount era Marvel films. (The Sony, Fox, and Universal released Marvel franchise films tumbled into dump bins a lot faster).
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Old 05-20-17, 11:00 AM   #188
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

When it comes to water cooler chatter at work, my co-workers know not to talk to me about current movies. They know that I don't watch any current movies in theaters or on premium cable channels.

We end up mostly talking about stuff on current tv shows on generic networks and some basic cable channels. For example, talking about what went on during this week's episodes from shows like Blindspot, The Blacklist, Scorpion, Quantico, etc ...
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Old 05-20-17, 11:41 AM   #189
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
Depends on the particular title.

Some stuff shows up within 6-9 months into local dump bins, such as many smaller companies and/or really awful stuff such as The Asylum produced schlock (ie. Sharknado, etc ...).

Most generic action/scifi movies typically take a few years to tumble to less than $5 a pop.

The longest so far for me, would be the Marvel movies released by Disney. I'm still at around the early-2010s Paramount era Marvel films. (The Sony, Fox, and Universal released Marvel franchise films tumbled into dump bins a lot faster).
Yeah junk typically ends up in $5 dump bins in Walmart.

But there are still many older and relatively popular movies that never go there. All 7 Fast and Furious movies are still selling for around $10/piece.

You will never see boutique titles from Shout/Scream there.

I think the stuff that still sells are popular summer blockbusters and hard to find niche titles with lots of extras.

I love that smaller companies like Shout exist to satisfy movie lovers and collectors of hard to find titles. I know someone like Coral who seems to only want to watch something once and that's it doesn't care about that.

And I'm sure there are many here who have really tight budgets and simply cannot afford to purchase new titles even on a semi regular basis.

Last edited by DJariya; 05-20-17 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 05-20-17, 12:01 PM   #190
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
But there are still many older and relatively popular movies that never go there. All 7 Fast and Furious movies are still selling for around $10/piece.
I picked up the earlier F&F blurays from the $5 dump bins. Not the more recent ones.

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Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
You will never see boutique titles from Shout/Scream there.
So far I haven't seen any ShoutFactory blurays in dump bins.

Though ShoutFactory dvds show up every now and then in local dump bins, such as some of their older tv show season sets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
I love that smaller companies like Shout exist to satisfy movie lovers and collectors of hard to find titles.
At this point, the only small label I might still be willing to buy non-dumpbin stuff from, is Kino.

Several years ago I picked up two different bluray releases of Metropolis. One was the mid-80s Giorgio Moroder version, and the other one was the 2010 restored version with the "lost" footage found in a film archive in Argentina.

If Kino ever releases a bluray version of the original Outer Limits tv show, it will most likely be a first-week buy for me.
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Old 05-20-17, 12:41 PM   #191
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
... Shout/Scream there.

... and hard to find niche titles with lots of extras.
In terms of Shout stuff, the only blurays I have so far are They Live and UHF (the Weird Al movie). I was able to get these ones for $10 a pop. Not dump bin per se.

Back in the day, I use to watch They Live a lot from a prerecorded VHS copy.

I also use to watch the Weird Al UHF a lot, especially after I found a VHS copy in the "former rentals" bin at a then-local video rental store.

For these two ^ movies, I was willing to pay more than $5 for the blurays.


In terms of other ShoutFactory bluray titles, they haven't really released a lot of stuff which interests me a lot.

Last edited by morriscroy; 05-20-17 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 05-20-17, 01:17 PM   #192
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

In terms of 4Kbluray, so far I haven't seen any 4Kbluray movie discs yet in local dump bins.

Though once 4Kbluray discs start showing up in $5 dump bins (if ever), I might be tempted to finally pick up a 4Kbluray player AND a bluray computer drive which can read 4Kbluray discs (such as some current models manufactured by LG or Pioneer). For various technical reasons, I would rather use a Pioneer bluray computer drive than an LG bluray computer drive.
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Old 05-20-17, 01:20 PM   #193
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

We're talking apples and oranges here. Not everybody is a collector. Many of us enjoy the tangible nature of this hobby not just the pleasure of watching the films and shows. I nearly have an orgasm when a new steelbook arrives from Zavvi. And although I haven't even watched it yet, I couldn't wait to stop by Best Buy to lay my hands on the "La La Land" steelbook. I have showed friends the elaboate box set of "The Ten Commandments," but to them it's just a film...to me it is a treasure. Some believe it's crazy to buy these discs and rest them on a shelf. I couldn't disagree more. At the end of a long week it's nice to peruse my collection which contains a wide variety of viewing options that can satisfy any mood. Collecting blu-ray discs pleasures me and what other people choose to do is their perogative. I prefer owning something tangible ..vaporware doesn't interest me at all. So it's my hope that there will be enough people who share my enthusiasm for collecting to keep physical media alive into the next decade.

I was particularly surprised this week to find nearly all of the Best Buy stores sold out of the "Mummy Collection" steelbook. These films have been widely available since the format's launch. Evidently, there is still a healthy number of people buying physical media. I may need resuscitation when my "Transformers" steelbook set arrives from Zavvi.
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Old 05-20-17, 01:30 PM   #194
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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I prefer owning something tangible ..vaporware doesn't interest me at all.
(On a huge tangent).

One thing I still insist on, are technical books in paper form.

Unfortunately many technical books I'm interested in, have not been digitally scanned yet. Also unfortunately that many older technical books which have already been digitally scanned, they were really lousy scans where many letters + equations didn't turn out right. It's annoying trying to figure out why a particular equation doesn't look right on a digital scanned page. (ie. Greek letters and mathematical symbols either missing or the wrong one).

To add insult to injury, is when the digital version of a technical book, is either the same price or more expensive than a brand new paper copy of the same technical book.

Current tablet readers are somewhat less than ideal for going through huge technical books which can be more than 500+ pages (or even over 1000+ pages).
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Old 05-20-17, 01:36 PM   #195
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
In terms of 4Kbluray, so far I haven't seen any 4Kbluray movie discs yet in local dump bins.

Though once 4Kbluray discs start showing up in $5 dump bins (if ever), I might be tempted to finally pick up a 4Kbluray player AND a bluray computer drive which can read 4Kbluray discs (such as some current models manufactured by LG or Pioneer). For various technical reasons, I would rather use a Pioneer bluray computer drive than an LG bluray computer drive.
That's because 4K UHD's are a pretty new that hasn't really caught on mainstream yet. The lowest you can go is $14.99 on sale.

And good grief man, can you just get straight to the point on your posts? Most of your posts are nearly incoherent ramblings.
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Old 05-20-17, 01:37 PM   #196
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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TMost of your posts are nearly incoherent ramblings.
That's me!
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Old 05-20-17, 02:06 PM   #197
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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That's because 4K UHD's are a pretty new that hasn't really caught on mainstream yet.
It never will. Hell, they haven't even caught on with most serious collectors yet...

There was an interesting interview with one of the founders of Twilight Time over at DVD Authority:

Nick Redman "Twilight Time" regarding 4k Discs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Redman
I don’t own one myself [UHD Player] ... The biggest problem, and anybody who is honest will acknowledge it, about UHD is that the average person can not tell a difference between a Blu-Ray and a UHD. In other words, if you took a focus group of fifty people and you showed them a movie in Blu-Ray or UHD and didn’t tell them which is which, they don’t know which is which. And if people can’t tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray, there are people who can not tell the difference.
I actually did this with a buddy of mine but I tricked him. I only put blu-rays in the player and he was adamant that certain movies I played for him were 4K. He is a videophile and an audiophile. That exchange convinced me I had no desire to "upgrade."
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Old 05-20-17, 02:27 PM   #198
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
I actually did this with a buddy of mine but I tricked him. I only put blu-rays in the player and he was adamant that certain movies I played for him were 4K. He is a videophile and an audiophile. That exchange convinced me I had no desire to "upgrade."
(On a tangent).

Most of my local audiophile friends/in-laws/acquaintances couldn't figure out whether the Left and Right speakers were incorrectly placed or not. The only times they were able to spot the L/R inversion, was in a particular song which had a solo-guitar in only one of the speakers during a short segment, which they recognized immediately as being in the wrong speaker.


(More generally).

A better test would be a randomized A/B blind test between 4K and normal-HD on the same movie, where they don't know which version they're seeing at any time. One wants to see whether they can identify the 4K version, better than random guessing.
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Old 05-20-17, 02:46 PM   #199
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
There was an interesting interview with one of the founders of Twilight Time over at DVD Authority:
I absolutely agree that the average person cannot appreciate the difference between UHD and Blu-ray. The average person isn't really that great a baseline, though, because the average person is not a home theater enthusiast.

If we all made purchases based on what the average person could appreciate, we'd all probably have mediocre LCD displays with the worst possible settings enabled, sound systems wouldn't extend any further than soundbars or the speakers built into TVs, etc.

Personally, I base my purchases on what I myself can appreciate, not on what friends, neighbors, or some random person I'll never meet can appreciate. That's not meant to be some kind of holy defense of UHD BD -- I don't own a UHD display and have literally never even seen a UHD BD in action -- but investing in new gear for incremental improvements over whatever came before it is part and parcel of the home theater game.

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It never will. Hell, they haven't even caught on with most serious collectors yet...
Niches are fine. I don't care if UHD BD ever truly catches fire. Working under the assumption that I would be able to appreciate the difference , I just want it to be successful enough to be reasonably well-supported. If it did really take off, that'd be great, but I'm okay if it winds up being Laserdisc-popular. There's not all that much to appeal to collectors at the moment, given the near-total lack of interesting catalog titles and even how few new releases hit the format day-and-date. I think of it as a supplement to BD rather than a replacement.

Sales of UHD BDs seem to be exceeding the very modest expectations that were set. It's not forever transforming everything we've come to know about home video, but the format's doing fine for what it is.

FWIW:

Quote:
Sales of 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc players are expected to top 1.4 million units in 2017, up 148% from 946,000 units sold in 2016, according to new data from Futuresource Consulting. The tally would represent 8% of the global Blu-ray player market.

“4K UHD broadcasts are still limited largely to sports. Higher-end consumers — especially in the U.S. and Western Europe — are turning to UHD Blu-ray players to access movie content. This growth will be aided by the release of approximately 250 UHD Blu-ray titles this year, in addition to the ever-growing base of 4K UHD TV owners,” senior market analyst Jack Wetherill said in a statement.
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Old 05-20-17, 03:04 PM   #200
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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... but investing in new gear for incremental improvements over whatever came before it is part and parcel of the home theater game.
I'm pretty much at the point where I don't have to have the latest cutting edge stuff anymore.

I'll eventually pick up a 4K screen when my current hd screen either develops too many dead pixels and/or it dies outright.
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