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View Poll Results: Would you be ok if physical media went away completely?
Yes 18 21.18%
No 51 60.00%
What are you high? 16 18.82%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-19-17, 11:14 AM   #151
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
And what's with the psycho babble?
Wile E Coyote on lsd ?

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Old 05-19-17, 11:19 AM   #152
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Yeah well, like some people collect coins, stamps, books LPs, CDs, cars, dolls, toys etc etc... I enjoy collecting movies for both the tangible and entertainment value. Pure and simply, it's a hobby.
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Old 05-19-17, 11:24 AM   #153
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Via UltraViolet:

You accept the Terms by accessing or using the Services or by otherwise indicating your consent. We may change these Terms or modify any features of the Services at any time. We will post notice of modifications to these Terms on this page. Changes will become effective 14 days after they are posted, except that changes due to laws, regulations, code of practice, or similar requirements or to reflect new features are effective immediately. You accept any changes to the Terms by continuing to access or use the Services after we post the changes.

Via VUDU:

YOU AGREE THAT VUDU MAY ELIMINATE OR OTHERWISE MODIFY ANY OR ALL ASPECTS OF THE VUDU SERVICE, VUDU COMMUNITY AND VUDU COMMUNITY FEATURES OR ANY OTHER ASPECTS OF THE VUDU SERVICE AT ANY TIME, WITHOUT COMPENSATION OR NOTICE TO YOU.

And there's more...

By using the Vudu Service, you are expressly agreeing that Vudu is authorized to charge you any applicable rental, subscription or purchase fees or taxes and any other charges you may incur in connection with your use of the Vudu Service to the payment method you provided during registration (or to a different payment method if you change your account information). The fees and charges for selected Content, applicable taxes and any other fees incurred will automatically be charged to your payment method in your Vudu Account. For preorder rentals or purchases, you may be charged up to 24 hours prior to the time the Content is released and available. Fees are payable only in U.S. dollars. Vudu may change the fees and charges in effect or add new fees and charges from time to time. There may be a temporary disruption of your access to the Vudu Service until Vudu can verify the validity of any new credit or debit card information. Pricing errors may occur on the Website. In the event of a pricing error, Vudu reserves the right to restrict your access to Content, with no further obligations to you, even after your receipt of Content or confirmation of Content availability. Vudu may, in its sole discretion, either contact you for instructions or restrict access to Content.
None of that, even the bolded stuff, states that they plan on charging a fee for maintaining your library.

Yes, they reserve the right to add or change fees, or change their service entirely, but that's pretty standard boilerplate for an online service. They don't want to be locked into one set of fees for the lifetime of their service. Keep in mind that "purchase fees," aka the cost of a purchase are included in those terms.

Could Vudu add a "maintenance fee"? Yes, it's within the scope of their terms of use. Will they? That's just speculation, and nothing in their terms of use indicates this one way or the other. I've already provided my reasoning for why I think Vudu, or any other digital download site, doing so for digital purchases is highly unlikely.
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Old 05-19-17, 11:32 AM   #154
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Yeah well, like some people collect coins, stamps, books LPs, CDs, cars, dolls, toys etc etc... I enjoy collecting movies for both the tangible and entertainment value. Pure and simply, it's a hobby.
*** Channeling Sigmund Freud ***

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Old 05-19-17, 11:32 AM   #155
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
None of that, even the bolded stuff, states that they plan on charging a fee for maintaining your library.

Yes, they reserve the right to add or change fees, or change their service entirely, but that's pretty standard boilerplate for an online service. They don't want to be locked into one set of fees for the lifetime of their service. Keep in mind that "purchase fees," aka the cost of a purchase are included in those terms.

Could Vudu add a "maintenance fee"? Yes, it's within the scope of their terms of use. Will they? That's just speculation, and nothing in their terms of use indicates this one way or the other. I've already provided my reasoning for why I think Vudu, or any other digital download site, doing so for digital purchases is highly unlikely.
I'm not gonna get into a pissing match with you. The legal statements are vague and broad for a reason. If they spelled it out specifically, it would actually limit THEIR rights. The point is and always was that they have reserved the right to apply such fees in the future for a reason. Yes, neither you nor I know what the future holds but if the past is any indication of the future, I'll bet that when adoption of these services is the majority, you will see the fees applied. And the studios could limit distribution or create their own hubs so you would have to join more than one service. That's not so far fetched considering there are a number of services that distribute exclusive programming already. You can hope and argue all you want. All I am sayin' is that I will not sell off my physical media nor shift my purchases in favor of digital services like VUDU or Netflix. You can spend your money as you wish and I will make different choices. That is what freedom is all about my friend.

Look up the failed limited roll out of DIVX via the now defunct Circuit City. The studios are salivating for the opportunity to charge you an endless amount of fees while severely limiting your access to content. It is their collective "wet dream."

*** Channeling Mr. Spock ***....fascinating.


Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 05-19-17, 11:38 AM   #156
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Is this not a website devoted to the purchase and collection of DVDs, Blu-rays and UHD Discs?
Technically yes.

A secondary purpose of internet message boards is individuals voicing their frustrations/grievances to a larger audience.

(Before the internet became popular, the local watering holes served a similar secondary purpose).
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Old 05-19-17, 11:54 AM   #157
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Good grief. You need to get out more often. There are other threads for non-related subjects.
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Old 05-19-17, 11:56 AM   #158
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Good grief. You need to get out more often.
Is this another case of the "pot calling the kettle black"?

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Old 05-19-17, 12:01 PM   #159
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

I work from home. And when I'm not working, I am usually breathing fresh air. No pot, no kettle.



Anything else?

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Old 05-19-17, 12:05 PM   #160
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

You sound pretty hostile today.

I too have been working from home over the past week.

Other than doing a long distance jog for 30 minutes earlier this morning, I haven't been outside in the air since sunrise.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:11 PM   #161
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Hostile? Who is baiting a reply from who? I am pleased you have extracurricular activities! Now, go live healthy and take on the day! You have my blessings, sir.

retort

verb
answer, reply, respond, say in response, return, counter, rejoin, riposte, retaliate, snap back.

noun
a sarcastic retort: answer, reply, response, return, counter, rejoinder, riposte, retaliation; informal comeback.



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Old 05-19-17, 12:11 PM   #162
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
The legal statements are vague and broad for a reason. If they spelled it out specifically, it would actual limit THEIR rights.
I agree. However, I'm not the one that was arguing that the terms and conditioned specified that they were going to start charging maintenance fees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Neither you nor I know what the future holds but if the past is any indication of the future....
What specific past are you referring to? Can you point to a distribution method in the past that went from purchase to exclusively rental?

Edit: Or a distribution method that revoked previous purchase rights and/or charged maintenance fees for access to previous purchases?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
I'll bet that when adoption of these services is in the majority you will see the fees applied....
See, the problem is you're thinking of "these services" as a monolithic entity that would switch over all of them at once. In reality, they're a bunch of independent companies, and one of them would always have to be the first to start charging a fee. And as soon as they start charging a fee, consumers will start flocking to a competitor. So it's then in the competitor's interest to not charge a fee.

You feel customers will get locked into "digital purchase," when in reality the market for digital purchases is varied enough that consumers can move around, and thus stick with a particular platform only as long as it's attractive to do so. The fact that some of the titles rely on UV and DMA, meaning that the purchases are portable and can be imported into a competing service, even further diminishes a particular service provider's grip on their consumer base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
And the studios could limit distribution or create their own hubs so you would have to join more than one service. That's not so far fetched considering there are a number of services that distribute exclusive programming already.
Sure, the studios could, but again, that doesn't mean they will. The majority of studios collaborated on UV as a service, and don't seem likely to bail to go to separate studio authorization services. Even the one studio that kept out of UV, Disney, launched its on DMA service that is way more cross-compatible than UV is, working on iTunes, Amazon, Google Play in addition to Vudu and FandangoNow. Studios know that having their titles be cross-compatible and not locked to a particular service is appealing to consumers who want to view their purchases on a wide range of devices.

And as for the "exclusive programming" of certain monthly subscription services like Netflix, keep in mind that they also make that programming, like Orange is the New Black, available for purchase on services like Vudu:
http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...lack-TV-Series

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
All I am sayin' is that I will not sell off my physical media nor shift my purchases in favor of digital services like VUDU or Netflix.
That's your prerogative, and I'm not arguing against it. I just disagree with your original assertion that "If and when physical media dies, sites like VUDU, Flixster, and iTunes will begin charging fees to maintain your library." For all the faults and potential downsides with going with DRM-locked digital purchases, I don't see that particular scenario as all that likely.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:18 PM   #163
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

Let's just agree to disagree. Although, I'm not sure where the disagreement lies. I believe the future is unknown and I am not joining the lemmings and moving towards a digital environment. i sold off my library once and regretted it. Now that I have rebuilt that library I am enjoying my hobby. I am puzzled why anyone who is making the move towards digital ownership would have any interest in debating their decision in a forum dedicated to the collecting of physical media. That is something our friend who fancies himself a psychologist should consider.

It has been said that "misery loves company" and "nobody likes to drink alone." I would say be happy with your decision 'cause you are never going to convince me nor change my opinion on the abandonment of physical media. In my opinion, there's a host of reasons beyond possible fees that makes abandoning physical media a bad decision. As long as it's available it will be my primary choice for content. And my VUDU account is strictly for friends and family to access some of my library. The only titles in that account are those which were included with their respective discs. If they ever start charging a maintenance fee I will delete my account entirely. My goal is to have as few monthly bills, fees and unnecessary services as possible. I believe all of these various monthly obligations are becoming financial slavery for way too many people.

Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:22 PM   #164
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
That's your prerogative, and I'm not arguing against it. I just disagree with your original assertion that "If and when physical media dies, sites like VUDU, Flixster, and iTunes will begin charging fees to maintain your library." For all the faults and potential downsides with going with DRM-locked digital purchases, I don't see that particular scenario as all that likely.
Offhand, I can only think of a remotely analogous scenario in the stock brokerage business. (Unrelated to downloads, movies, etc ...).

Back in the day, I used an online brokerage service to do some stock trading. Initially the brokerage didn't charge any extra fees for not doing any trades during a particular month.

Though after awhile, the brokerage starting charging "non-activity" fees if one didn't do any stock trades during a particular month. (This happened after the dotcom crash in 2000, when it was difficult to find anything compelling to buy).

Though not a direct apples-to-apples comparison. This was a sudden change in the terms of service.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:34 PM   #165
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Let's just agree to disagree. Although, I'm not sure where the disagreement lies.
Again, the disagreement is with your original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
If and when physical media dies, sites like VUDU, Flixster, and iTunes will begin charging fees to maintain your library. Read the fine print. The terms are there and the groundwork is already being laid...
Unlike your current assertion that "the future is unknown," you stated that they definitely will start charging maintenance fees. You also stated that such terms already existed in their terms of use, when there's only the more vague terms that they can add or change fees if they want.

Again, you can do what you want, but when you state something on this forum that I disagree with, especially when you assert it as fact, I'm going to argue the point.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:36 PM   #166
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
Offhand, I can only think of a remotely analogous scenario in the stock brokerage business. (Unrelated to downloads, movies, etc ...).

Back in the day, I used an online brokerage service to do some stock trading. Initially the brokerage didn't charge any extra fees for not doing any trades during a particular month.

Though after awhile, the brokerage starting charging "non-activity" fees if one didn't do any stock trades during a particular month. (This happened after the dotcom crash in 2000, when it was difficult to find anything compelling to buy).

Though not a direct apples-to-apples comparison. This was a sudden change in the terms of service.
A big thing to note would be did all brokerage services start charging a "non-activity" fee, or did you have the option of moving to a competing service to avoid the fee? From what I recall of brokerage services, some even tout the fact that they don't charge such fees to lure in customers.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:42 PM   #167
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
A big thing to note would be did all brokerage services start charging a "non-activity" fee, or did you have the option of moving to a competing service to avoid the fee? From what I recall of brokerage services, some even tout the fact that they don't charge such fees to lure in customers.
At the time the brokerage I was using didn't charge any non-activity fees, circa 1999/2000.

After the dotcom crash, I ended up cashing out and wrote off some of the capital-losses against income. I didn't invest a lot to begin with. (I was late to the game).
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Old 05-19-17, 12:45 PM   #168
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Again, the disagreement is with your original post:

Unlike your current assertion that "the future is unknown," you stated that they definitely will start charging maintenance fees. You also stated that such terms already existed in their terms of use, when there's only the more vague terms that they can add or change fees if they want.

Again, you can do what you want, but when you state something on this forum that I disagree with, especially when you assert it as fact, I'm going to argue the point.
Yes, logic would say that those fees will eventually apply. These services aren't doing charity work. You can disagree all day and believe whatever you want to believe ...like I said you are free to decide. I will do likewise.


Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 05-19-17, 12:51 PM   #169
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Yes, logic would say that those fees will eventually apply.
What logic? Why would one of the services add such a fee? Why wouldn't consumers flock to a competitor that doesn't charge the fee?
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Old 05-19-17, 12:56 PM   #170
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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What logic? Why would one of the services add such a fee? Why wouldn't consumers flock to a competitor that doesn't charge the fee?
I don't know, ask HBO, Showtime, HULU, Netflix, Sling ....etc.... They seem to know. Maybe consider previous posts in which I suggested it was even possible that the studios could limit distribution to certain providers and you would be forced to pay fees to more than one service. Anything is possible and to argue that point is ridiculous. There are far less risks with physical ownership. Unless, of course, they stop making Blu-ray players. I suppose that is a possibility, but far less likely in my opinion. I mean after all, they are still making turntables decades after the first recordings were pressed.


Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 05-19-17, 01:02 PM   #171
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Hostile? Who is baiting a reply from who?

Touche
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Old 05-19-17, 01:10 PM   #172
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
Unless, of course, they stop making Blu-ray players. I suppose that is a possibility, but far less likely in my opinion.
How many manufacturers are actively supporting VHS, Laserdisc, HD DVD, and D-VHS? There will come a time when the sun sets on Blu-ray, although there are certainly enough players around that there'll still be options decades from now even if the last one were to roll off the assembly line today.
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Old 05-19-17, 01:16 PM   #173
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
How many manufacturers are actively supporting VHS, Laserdisc, HD DVD, and D-VHS? There will come a time when the sun sets on Blu-ray, although there are certainly enough players around that there'll still be options decades from now even if the last one were to roll off the assembly line today.
Could it be possible for bluray computer drives to be still manufactured, even after all the patents expire?
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Old 05-19-17, 01:46 PM   #174
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

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Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
I don't know, ask HBO, Showtime, HULU, Netflix, Sling ....etc.... They seem to know.
Those are subscription services with a completely different service model, and HBO and Showtime have been around for decades, but still make their shows available for sale.

Vudu and others are predicated on the idea of purchases and rentals instead of an ongoing subscription. As long as people still make new purchases and rentals, they'll still have revenue coming in, and don't necessarily have to charge

I mean iTunes went from videos being a download-once sort of thing to allowing multiple downloads, to just allowing streaming of video. The actual costs for streaming stuff to customers is minimal.

Even for subscription services like Netflix, the majority of costs is in licensing/producing content, not the actual streaming.

You actually haven't really provided any real logic why the digital purchase services like Vudu and others would even want to charge such a fee, let alone why consumers wouldn't react negatively and the market would force them to correct accordingly.

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Anything is possible...
Sure, but that doesn't mean that what you proposed is likely, and it very much doesn't make it an assured outcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSch View Post
There are far less risks with physical ownership...
There's maybe less uncertainty, since they're no 3rd party in charge of providing access to your purchased content. But there's still risks with physical ownership, such as theft or damage. If your house gets robbed, you're out your library. Meanwhile, a digital collection would still be there.
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Old 05-19-17, 03:06 PM   #175
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Re: If physical media went away completely, would you be ok?

I think what I have argued epitomizes logic. Historical information is plentiful as are the contents of their own terms and conditions. But you can believe whatever you choose to believe. Matters not to me. I'm not looking to convert you. I simply believe differently... next?

logic |ˈläjik|

noun

1 reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity: experience is a better guide to this than deductive logic

The studios have demonstrated repeated attempts over the years to exploit their catalogs in any number of ways. To deny that fact is simply ridiculous. I find it fascinating that people in these forums would argue in favor of digital. Perhaps you need something else to occupy your valuable time now that you've decided to cease collecting physical media. ...or are you just looking for an argument?

Last edited by AaronSch; 05-19-17 at 03:19 PM.
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