Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
03-12-15, 04:17 PM
#1
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Some interesting things going on in the audio side.
Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Washington — The Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) has begun reviewing three proposed audio formats for the next-generation ATSC 3.0 digital terrestrial TV standard.
Dolby Labs, DTS, and an alliance of Fraunhaufer, Qualcomm and Technicolor have proposed competing standards, all of which support 2.0 channels, 5.1 channels, and object-based, or immersive 3D, surround.
Object-based surround decoding is already available in multiple A/V receivers from Dolby and, later this year, from DTS for decoding object-based surround on disc-based and streamed video.
The three 3.0 audio systems will be tested this summer with the intent to make one of them the ATSC’s candidate audio standard by year’s end, a spokesman said. A standard for the physical, or transmission, layer of ATSC 3.0 is also on track to reach candidate-standard status by the end of the year.
Once the candidate standards are set, manufacturers can build equipment to test them, and final adjustments can be made to the standards before they go to a membership vote.
Completion of the ATSC 3.0 standardization process will probably occur in 2016, the spokesman said.
The audio standards include an immersive audio capability that will enable “high spatial resolution in sound-source localization in azimuth, elevation and distance, and provides an increased sense of sound envelopment throughout the listening area," said ATSC president Mark Richer.
ATSC 3.0 audio also requires "personalization" capabilities, including dialog control, alternate audio tracks, assistive audio services, other-language dialog, special commentary, and music and effects. The standard will also normalize content loudness with dynamic-range contouring.
About 60 sound tracks have been selected for testing the three proposed audio systems. The material includes material to test three immersive audio formats: 7.1+4, which includes four height channels above the listener; 22.2 channels, which is a surround format pioneered by NHK as part of its Super Hi-Vision system; and High-Order Ambisonics (HOA), described as a “scene-based” format that’s independent of channels and can be optimally mapped into whatever reproduction channels are available in a particular home. HOA will be rendered to 22.2 channels for the tests.
For its part, DTS proposed DTS:X, which supports audio channels, object-based audio, advanced loudness and dynamics management, and DTS Headphone:X technology, which enables any set of headphones to reproduce surround sound.
For their part, Fraunhofer, Qualcomm and Technicolor have proposed MPEG-H audio, said to make it possible to use channel-based and/or sound-scene based technology in combination with audio objects.
Flexible rendering technology is said to allow the best adaptation of content to the actual listening environment and compensate for misplaced speakers. For 5.1 surround sound, bitrates of 96kbps to 256kbps will “deliver good to excellent quality, whereas immersive reproduction can be achieved with commonly used broadcast audio data rates of 384kbps," the companies said.
Dolby’s proposed audio system is called Dolby AC-4.
ATSC is the international organization that develops voluntary standards for digital television. Members represent the broadcast, broadcast equipment, motion picture, consumer electronics, computer, cable, satellite and semiconductor industries.
Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Washington — The Advanced Television Systems Committee (ATSC) has begun reviewing three proposed audio formats for the next-generation ATSC 3.0 digital terrestrial TV standard.
Dolby Labs, DTS, and an alliance of Fraunhaufer, Qualcomm and Technicolor have proposed competing standards, all of which support 2.0 channels, 5.1 channels, and object-based, or immersive 3D, surround.
Object-based surround decoding is already available in multiple A/V receivers from Dolby and, later this year, from DTS for decoding object-based surround on disc-based and streamed video.
The three 3.0 audio systems will be tested this summer with the intent to make one of them the ATSC’s candidate audio standard by year’s end, a spokesman said. A standard for the physical, or transmission, layer of ATSC 3.0 is also on track to reach candidate-standard status by the end of the year.
Once the candidate standards are set, manufacturers can build equipment to test them, and final adjustments can be made to the standards before they go to a membership vote.
Completion of the ATSC 3.0 standardization process will probably occur in 2016, the spokesman said.
The audio standards include an immersive audio capability that will enable “high spatial resolution in sound-source localization in azimuth, elevation and distance, and provides an increased sense of sound envelopment throughout the listening area," said ATSC president Mark Richer.
ATSC 3.0 audio also requires "personalization" capabilities, including dialog control, alternate audio tracks, assistive audio services, other-language dialog, special commentary, and music and effects. The standard will also normalize content loudness with dynamic-range contouring.
About 60 sound tracks have been selected for testing the three proposed audio systems. The material includes material to test three immersive audio formats: 7.1+4, which includes four height channels above the listener; 22.2 channels, which is a surround format pioneered by NHK as part of its Super Hi-Vision system; and High-Order Ambisonics (HOA), described as a “scene-based” format that’s independent of channels and can be optimally mapped into whatever reproduction channels are available in a particular home. HOA will be rendered to 22.2 channels for the tests.
For its part, DTS proposed DTS:X, which supports audio channels, object-based audio, advanced loudness and dynamics management, and DTS Headphone:X technology, which enables any set of headphones to reproduce surround sound.
For their part, Fraunhofer, Qualcomm and Technicolor have proposed MPEG-H audio, said to make it possible to use channel-based and/or sound-scene based technology in combination with audio objects.
Flexible rendering technology is said to allow the best adaptation of content to the actual listening environment and compensate for misplaced speakers. For 5.1 surround sound, bitrates of 96kbps to 256kbps will “deliver good to excellent quality, whereas immersive reproduction can be achieved with commonly used broadcast audio data rates of 384kbps," the companies said.
Dolby’s proposed audio system is called Dolby AC-4.
ATSC is the international organization that develops voluntary standards for digital television. Members represent the broadcast, broadcast equipment, motion picture, consumer electronics, computer, cable, satellite and semiconductor industries.
03-12-15, 06:56 PM
#2
DVD Talk Reviewer & TOAT Winner
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Will this be compatible or will everyone have to buy new TV tuners again like the analog to digital switch? Can't wait to watch infomercials with Dolby Atmos sound (with the mix of course dumbed-down for those with only 2 speakers!)
03-15-15, 02:45 PM
#3
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
This is kind of OT, but I really wish the music industry would adopt a smarter format like one of these. It would be nice to have that kind of control over the dynamic range, instead of having to put up with brickwalled-for-all tracks.
03-15-15, 04:33 PM
#4
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Although DTS:X has the option to allow you to control the volume of dialogue in movies encoded in that format, don't expect it to solve the problem of dynamic range. In fact, despite the fact that movies are mixed on equipment calibrated to a reference standard (-20dBFS), there is a loudness war going on in movies with studios and filmmakers demanding that their respective movies sound louder than the competition.
03-16-15, 10:50 AM
#5
DVD Talk Legend
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Although DTS:X has the option to allow you to control the volume of dialogue in movies encoded in that format, don't expect it to solve the problem of dynamic range. In fact, despite the fact that movies are mixed on equipment calibrated to a reference standard (-20dBFS), there is a loudness war going on in movies with studios and filmmakers demanding that their respective movies sound louder than the competition.
10-05-15, 11:39 PM
#6
Moderator
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
speaking of DTS-X seems like it's hit a roadblock:
http://www.heise.de/ct/ausgabe/2015-...n-2827700.html
Sentence with X
Start of the surround format DTS:X has been postponed to uncertain time
Many home cinema fans long for the firmware that will add the new surround sound format from DTS to their AV receivers. But the update is likely to no longer appear in this year - and if, then probably not for all devices.
DTS presented in January at CES under the name "DTS: X" its latest development in surround sound:
As the already introduced surround format "Dolby Atmos" (see c't 25/14, p 124), the new codec operates with "audio objects" that are distributed in real time to the speakers - including to ceiling speakers.
The promise that DTS:X would sound better than the competitor and have a more flexible speaker setup, convinced many home theater fan: They bought one of the new audio / video receivers in the following months, which, after a firmware update, should decode DTS:X soundtracks of Blu-ray discs. That should at the latest arrive "in the fall".
Then, however, a source of irritation had been that at the IFA in early September nothing of DTS:X was to be seen or heard. Even afterwards DTS lost no word about when it really starts. Who asks directly with dealers and manufacturers, often reap only a shrug. c't heard behind closed doors of several receiver manufacturers that the release of the update is actually postponed "indefinitely".
According to multiple matching reports, DTS was not yet capable to deliver the necessary decoder software for the digital signal processor (DSP) in a usable form. Even the beta version had, according to an insider, so many mistakes that they are not even allowed to use it for internal training. For example, It distributed audio objects to the wrong channels. Recently the hope for a flawless final version had been smashed as well. Currently therefore all manufacturers assume that the DTS: X update will no longer appear in this year.
One interviewee expressed to c't that the firmware may be available for some companies sooner than others. Because the receiver manufacturers do not use all on one and the same DSP platform, but use DTS:X and Dolby Atmos chipsets from Analog Devices (AD), Texas Instruments (TI) and Cirrus Logic. The first two companies are supposed to have encountered a fault in the DTS:X software and have begun to look for solutions. Cirrus Logic, however, was only becoming aware of the problems, when DTS admitted them. Verification this statement can not be certain, since the chip maker remain silent and it can not be ruled out that a manufacturer wants to bad talk another manufacturer.
If the information is correct, the following picture is likely to arise: The D & M Holdings has a good stand with the brands Denon and Marantz with their more expensive models because of it DSPs by AD. Also in good position could be Yamaha, based on TI's DSP platform. The chips are also likely to be used in the DTS:X-compatible receivers, which Pioneer will bring mid October to the German market. Gloomy it would however look for Onkyo receivers, because the manufacturer is incorporating the DSP platform of Cirrus Logic. The cheaper DTS:X-compatible receivers from Denon use the Cirrus Logic DSPs. Only one of the respondents had the vague hope that there could still be a DTS for a few models with AD or TI chips shortly before the turn of the year.
Mishaps all around
The firmware update is not the first debacle to the new surround format: DTS had earlier this year also filed DTS:X with the Advanced Television Systems Committee, which determines the audio system for the upcoming third generation of digital TV broadcasting standards ATSC (comparable with the European DVB). The codec competed here initially with Dolby AC-4 (including Dolby Atmos) and MPEG-H Audio, developed by an alliance of Fraunhofer, Qualcomm and Technicolor. Than, in early April DTS took it out of the race; an official statement about it did not exist.
A person in charge with the procedure declared to c't that DTS was unable to answer demands of the committee about its audio codec satisfactorily. In addition, the company was unable to provide a detailed documentation on DTS:X. This statement also matches with that of the receiver manufacturers that they have not received the promised documentation to the codec from the Californians as of today. The withdrawal does not mean that DTS: X will no play a role in the future of US American digital television; but for ATSC 3.0 the codec is definitely out.
Without appropriate hardware, the movie studios understandably hold back. At least Lionsgate published in mid-June the science fiction film "Ex Machina" as the first Blu-ray with a DTS:X encoded soundtrack. But the US Disc is equipped with the region code "A" and can not simply be played on European Players who accept only Region "B" discs. The German Blu-ray Disc of the film, sold by Universal, in turn, has only ordinary 5.1-Ton.
The Lionsgate films "Sicario" and "The Hunger Games - Mockingjay Part 2", traded as candidates for DTS:X in the United States, are likely to come on the market in this country even with Dolby Atmos sound, since the local film rights are respectively at StudioCanal which supports the Dolby format. Other studios have announced so far no titles with DTS:X sound.
http://www.heise.de/ct/ausgabe/2015-...n-2827700.html
Sentence with X
Start of the surround format DTS:X has been postponed to uncertain time
Many home cinema fans long for the firmware that will add the new surround sound format from DTS to their AV receivers. But the update is likely to no longer appear in this year - and if, then probably not for all devices.
DTS presented in January at CES under the name "DTS: X" its latest development in surround sound:
As the already introduced surround format "Dolby Atmos" (see c't 25/14, p 124), the new codec operates with "audio objects" that are distributed in real time to the speakers - including to ceiling speakers.
The promise that DTS:X would sound better than the competitor and have a more flexible speaker setup, convinced many home theater fan: They bought one of the new audio / video receivers in the following months, which, after a firmware update, should decode DTS:X soundtracks of Blu-ray discs. That should at the latest arrive "in the fall".
Then, however, a source of irritation had been that at the IFA in early September nothing of DTS:X was to be seen or heard. Even afterwards DTS lost no word about when it really starts. Who asks directly with dealers and manufacturers, often reap only a shrug. c't heard behind closed doors of several receiver manufacturers that the release of the update is actually postponed "indefinitely".
According to multiple matching reports, DTS was not yet capable to deliver the necessary decoder software for the digital signal processor (DSP) in a usable form. Even the beta version had, according to an insider, so many mistakes that they are not even allowed to use it for internal training. For example, It distributed audio objects to the wrong channels. Recently the hope for a flawless final version had been smashed as well. Currently therefore all manufacturers assume that the DTS: X update will no longer appear in this year.
One interviewee expressed to c't that the firmware may be available for some companies sooner than others. Because the receiver manufacturers do not use all on one and the same DSP platform, but use DTS:X and Dolby Atmos chipsets from Analog Devices (AD), Texas Instruments (TI) and Cirrus Logic. The first two companies are supposed to have encountered a fault in the DTS:X software and have begun to look for solutions. Cirrus Logic, however, was only becoming aware of the problems, when DTS admitted them. Verification this statement can not be certain, since the chip maker remain silent and it can not be ruled out that a manufacturer wants to bad talk another manufacturer.
If the information is correct, the following picture is likely to arise: The D & M Holdings has a good stand with the brands Denon and Marantz with their more expensive models because of it DSPs by AD. Also in good position could be Yamaha, based on TI's DSP platform. The chips are also likely to be used in the DTS:X-compatible receivers, which Pioneer will bring mid October to the German market. Gloomy it would however look for Onkyo receivers, because the manufacturer is incorporating the DSP platform of Cirrus Logic. The cheaper DTS:X-compatible receivers from Denon use the Cirrus Logic DSPs. Only one of the respondents had the vague hope that there could still be a DTS for a few models with AD or TI chips shortly before the turn of the year.
Mishaps all around
The firmware update is not the first debacle to the new surround format: DTS had earlier this year also filed DTS:X with the Advanced Television Systems Committee, which determines the audio system for the upcoming third generation of digital TV broadcasting standards ATSC (comparable with the European DVB). The codec competed here initially with Dolby AC-4 (including Dolby Atmos) and MPEG-H Audio, developed by an alliance of Fraunhofer, Qualcomm and Technicolor. Than, in early April DTS took it out of the race; an official statement about it did not exist.
A person in charge with the procedure declared to c't that DTS was unable to answer demands of the committee about its audio codec satisfactorily. In addition, the company was unable to provide a detailed documentation on DTS:X. This statement also matches with that of the receiver manufacturers that they have not received the promised documentation to the codec from the Californians as of today. The withdrawal does not mean that DTS: X will no play a role in the future of US American digital television; but for ATSC 3.0 the codec is definitely out.
Without appropriate hardware, the movie studios understandably hold back. At least Lionsgate published in mid-June the science fiction film "Ex Machina" as the first Blu-ray with a DTS:X encoded soundtrack. But the US Disc is equipped with the region code "A" and can not simply be played on European Players who accept only Region "B" discs. The German Blu-ray Disc of the film, sold by Universal, in turn, has only ordinary 5.1-Ton.
The Lionsgate films "Sicario" and "The Hunger Games - Mockingjay Part 2", traded as candidates for DTS:X in the United States, are likely to come on the market in this country even with Dolby Atmos sound, since the local film rights are respectively at StudioCanal which supports the Dolby format. Other studios have announced so far no titles with DTS:X sound.
10-06-15, 12:07 AM
#7
DVD Talk Reviewer & TOAT Winner
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
I'm not upgrading my sound system again until DTS:X equipment actually comes out and ready to play with no firmware upgrades or crap.
Why are they even BOTHERING with any of this for broadcast TV- I'm sure the world is just waiting for infomercials in Dolby Atmos!
Why are they even BOTHERING with any of this for broadcast TV- I'm sure the world is just waiting for infomercials in Dolby Atmos!
10-06-15, 08:46 PM
#8
Banned by request
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
12-08-15, 09:22 PM
#9
Moderator
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
just today Universal is now the second studio to back the release of DTS-X encoded blurays with the upcoming release of 'Crimson Peak.
12-08-15, 09:53 PM
#11
Moderator
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
12-08-15, 09:57 PM
#12
Banned by request
Re: Object-Based Surround Coming To ATSC 3.0
Guess I'll hold out until after CES to see what receiver offerings they'll hopefully announce. Been looking for one for a while now. Of course I doubt any will include this ATSC 3.0. I wonder if the upcoming receivers could get a firmware to support it when the specs are finalized.
