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HD Talk The place to discuss HD DVD, Blu-ray and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

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Old 01-06-15, 09:35 AM   #1
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Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Panasonic unveiled a prototype 4K Blu-ray player at CES yesterday.
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Old 01-06-15, 10:45 AM   #2
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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It's clear that Panasonic's Blu-ray player needs more work, too: as far as we could tell, it doesn't even have a disc drive yet.


I think streaming 4K content is going to be a big hurdle for nearly everyone, so having discs is a nice option. That said, the market for this is going to be tiny, at best.
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Old 01-06-15, 10:54 AM   #3
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Fuck VHS conversion, 4k laserdiscs are gonna be huge.

Boy, if we think blu ray is a niche product now...4k blu's will be the new hotness.
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Old 01-06-15, 10:56 AM   #4
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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I think streaming 4K content is going to be a big hurdle for nearly everyone, so having discs is a nice option. That said, the market for this is going to be tiny, at best.
I agree 100%. First-rate 4K streaming is a long, long way off. The reception to Netflix's current 4K offerings make it sound not all that much better than Blu-ray. Discs would have a lot to offer, but you're getting into niche of a niche of a niche territory.

I bought an HD DVD player on day one, and I knew a whole bunch of people who picked up Blu-ray decks the instant they were available. Those early players were overpriced and extremely clunky, and the selection of software in those first few months was absolutely dismal. Even the quality of the early releases didn't hold up after a short while. I'm kind of expecting history to repeat itself, especially since far fewer movies than you'd think are actually mastered in 4K these days.

Despite all that -- and despite the fact that I don't even have a 4K TV! -- I'm still completely fascinated. I'm misguided enough to buy in, but it probably won't be until the second or third waves of players are out.
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Old 01-06-15, 11:00 AM   #5
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Yeah, truth be told, I'm very interested in 4k, I just don't know the practicality considering we'll have next to no native content for a long while. And it still kills me how the common J6P will want this yet will still pop in a DVD to watch.

And I still don't think Netflix 4k content will take off, even when/if 4k TV's become sort of big. And cable won't get into this anytime in the next few years. That's a hard sell for these TV's.
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Old 01-06-15, 11:03 AM   #6
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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Originally Posted by trespoochies View Post
And cable won't get into this anytime in the next few years.
Geez, my cable company can't even get HD right. It's overcompressed to the point of looking like a circa-2005 YouTube stream sometimes. I can't imagine how they'd mangle 4K.
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Old 01-06-15, 11:05 AM   #7
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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Originally Posted by Dan View Post


I think streaming 4K content is going to be a big hurdle for nearly everyone, so having discs is a nice option. That said, the market for this is going to be tiny, at best.
So tiny in fact that I'm not sure the studios bother to support it. Besides, they want us to go digital, and coming out with another disc format would be a statement otherwise.
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Old 01-06-15, 11:32 AM   #8
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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Originally Posted by Adam Tyner View Post
I bought an HD DVD player on day one, and I knew a whole bunch of people who picked up Blu-ray decks the instant they were available. Those early players were overpriced and extremely clunky, and the selection of software in those first few months was absolutely dismal. Even the quality of the early releases didn't hold up after a short while. I'm kind of expecting history to repeat itself, especially since far fewer movies than you'd think are actually mastered in 4K these days.
My mother-in-law is no kind of early adopter, but the Sony BD player she bought years ago stopped playing new discs a year or two ago (DVDs still work). I updated the firmware (via CD because no wifi!) with no success.
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Old 01-06-15, 11:42 AM   #9
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

This is at very, very best a collector's proposition. 4K hasn't even caught on in many cinema or hell, many DIs. You'll at most be seeing The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind, etc. Catalog titles will be non-existent apart from very high profile stuff. The physical media market is hanging on by a thread, I can't see this as a financially winning proposition for most studios.

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Geez, my cable company can't even get HD right. It's overcompressed to the point of looking like a circa-2005 YouTube stream sometimes. I can't imagine how they'd mangle 4K.
Decent HDTV is one of the things my service does handle fairly well. At least to my untrained eyes.

Streaming lags as it is right now, AT&T swear that the 12-15 Mbps they're giving me right now is the highest they can squeeze. The data loads for 4K will be enormous, even if you use Ethernet. Its sounds even more dicey there.
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Old 01-06-15, 11:54 AM   #10
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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Originally Posted by trespoochies View Post
Fuck VHS conversion, 4k laserdiscs are gonna be huge.

Boy, if we think blu ray is a niche product now...4k blu's will be the new hotness.
I'll be in line to buy that!
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Old 01-06-15, 11:56 AM   #11
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Until the major networks and cable TV stations go 4K, I have no interest in shelling out for a 4k TV, and - by association - no interest in getting a 4k Blu-ray player. And I've definitely been an early adopter over the years - HD DVD on Day One, PS3 (which was one of the best early Blu-ray players) on Day One. The big difference here is that by the time HD DVD and Blu-ray streeted, HDTV was very much a reality already (plenty of stations offering it...and even if your cable company didn't, you could get the networks in HD via an over-the-air antenna).
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Old 01-06-15, 01:12 PM   #12
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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Originally Posted by Shannon Nutt View Post
Until the major networks and cable TV stations go 4K, I have no interest in shelling out for a 4k TV, and - by association - no interest in getting a 4k Blu-ray player. And I've definitely been an early adopter over the years - HD DVD on Day One, PS3 (which was one of the best early Blu-ray players) on Day One. The big difference here is that by the time HD DVD and Blu-ray streeted, HDTV was very much a reality already (plenty of stations offering it...and even if your cable company didn't, you could get the networks in HD via an over-the-air antenna).
This is very much on point. The jump to hi-definition displays and content was driven by the broadcast industry first and foremost. As I understand it, that was a huge industry undertaking to transition. I suspect that the same is just not going to happen for the diminishing returns that 4K offers and as such, it will just be a niche.

On a personal level, I'm sure I sound like the dinosaurs I may have mocked when HD DVD and Blu-ray came out, but 1080p is more than good enough for me, even on my projector.
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Old 01-06-15, 01:19 PM   #13
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

I want 4K on cable/sat just for sports. Movies and TV shows will look better streamed on Netflix than my shitty Comcast.
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Old 01-06-15, 03:30 PM   #14
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Panasonic Exhibits Prototype of World's First Next Generation Blu-ray Disc Player

Glad to see physical media isn't dead. However, I am disappointed that they include 24fps right off the bat. Hell, I wish 48fps was an option as well.

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Panasonic Exhibits Prototype of World's First Next Generation Blu-ray Disc Player At CES 2015

Panasonic Corporation announced today that it has developed the world's first Blu-ray Disc™ playback technology supporting the latest technologies such as 4K and High Dynamic Range, which are expected to be adopted in the next generation Blu-ray Disc standards (ULTRA HD BLU-RAY™). A prototype player will be on display at the 2015 International CES (Las Vegas, NV, United States) January 6-9, 2015.

This prototype integrates video processing and optical disc drive technologies that Panasonic has refined over many years, making it capable of reproducing 4K (3,840 x 2,160 pixel)/60p[1]/10-bit[2] high resolution video, and supporting the latest technologies such as High Dynamic Range[3] that marks a major leap in the brightness peak from the previous 100 nit3 to 1,000-10,000 nit to improve the power of expression; wide color gamut standard BT.2020[4], which greatly increases color reproduction; high-efficiency video compression technology HEVC (H.265)/ Blu-ray Disc playback at a high bit rate of 100Mbps[5].

This marks a major advance in picture quality over current Blu-ray Disc players, and paves the way towards allowing consumers to enjoy the crisp, true-to-life quality of amazing 4K Ultra HD content in their own homes.

Since the announcement of the Blu-ray Disc standards in 2002, Panasonic has consistently taken the lead in standardization. In 2004 it released the world's first 50GB Blu-ray Disc recorder capable of double-sided recording, and in 2006 the world's first recorder capable of playing BD-Video, as well as being the first in the world to develop the technology to play back full HD 3D image data recorded to the Blu-ray Disc in 2008. With these and other achievements, Panasonic has constantly led the industry in developing Blu-ray devices.

Panasonic is now further redoubling its R&D efforts to bring its customers products that deliver amazing experiences and emotional impact. Panasonic will also participate in the newly-formed UHD Alliance4 to contribute to the progress of whole 4K (UHD) industry.



About Panasonic

Panasonic Corporation is a worldwide leader in the development and engineering of electronic technologies and solutions for customers in residential, non-residential, mobility and personal applications. Since its founding in 1918, the company has expanded globally and now operates around 500 consolidated companies worldwide, recording consolidated net sales of 7.74 trillion yen for the year ended March 31, 2014. Committed to pursuing new value through innovation across divisional lines, the company strives to create a better life and a better world for its customers. For more information about Panasonic, please visit the company's website at http://panasonic.net/.

1. As of January 6, 2015, for a Blu-ray Disc player supporting the latest technologies (e.g. 4K (Ultra HD) and High Dynamic Range) to be adopted in the ULTRA HD BLU-RAY™ next generation Blu-ray Disc standards.

2. The next generation Blu-ray Disc standards are being formulated by the Blu-ray Disc Association and have not yet been finalized. The technology to be adopted may change in the future.

3. Luminance per square meter (cd/m2) - "Blu-ray," "Blu-ray Disc," and "ULTRA HD BLU-RAY" are trademarks of the Blu-ray Disc Association.

4. The UHD Alliance is a global coalition of leading TV brands, film studios, content distributors and technology companies that aim to create a unified criterion for premium UHD platforms, from devices to content.

SPECIFICATION NOTES

4K / 60p
High speed display in 60 frames per second of 4K video (3,840 x 2,160 pixels - Ultra HD), which has four times the resolution of Full Hi-vision, for highly detailed videos with extremely smooth movement.

10-bit gradation
Previous Blu-ray Discs displayed the color signals (Y, Cb, Cr) in 8-bit gradation each (256 gradations). By expanding this to 10-bit gradation each (1,024 gradations), even minute signals can be faithfully reproduced to realize richly textured video.

High Dynamic Range
A technology that drastically expands the brightness peak from the previous 100 nit to 1,000-10,000 nit, marking a significant leap in the dynamic range of the picture. Bright light sources (e.g. lights or rays of the sun) and reflected light (from metal or water) that up to now were difficult to display can now be shown in rich textures.

BT.2020 wide color gamut
Compliant with the ITU-R BT.2020 wide color gamut signal formulated for 4K/8K broadcasting. Enables vividly rich coloration not previously possible on Blu-ray discs (BT.709 standard).

HEVC (H.265) / 100Mbps
Support for the highest 100Mbps video signal using the latest high-efficiency video compression technology. Compression efficiency and high bit rate far beyond previous Blu-ray discs (MPEG-4/AVC (H.264), maximum 40Mbps) enabling outstanding playback of high quality video with 4K/60p/10bit, High Dynamic Range, BT.2020, etc.
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Old 01-06-15, 03:41 PM   #15
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Re: Panasonic Exhibits Prototype of World's First Next Generation Blu-ray Disc Player

Great, except I'm still waiting for a crapload of titles to show up in 1080p. Now they'll start all over again with 4K and I'll never get my most wanted batch.
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Old 01-06-15, 03:48 PM   #16
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Re: Panasonic Exhibits Prototype of World's First Next Generation Blu-ray Disc Player

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Great, except I'm still waiting for a crapload of titles to show up in 1080p. Now they'll start all over again with 4K and I'll never get my most wanted batch.
I wonder how limited the 4K release of Fright Night will be.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:07 PM   #17
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Glad to see physical media isn't dead. However, I am disappointed that they include 24fps right off the bat. Hell, I wish 48fps was an option as well.
I don't think enough stuff has been shot in the format to warrant interest. Audiences don't seem to have taken to Jackson's experiments with it very well.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:10 PM   #18
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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I don't think enough stuff has been shot in the format to warrant interest. Audiences don't seem to have taken to Jackson's experiments with it very well.
I get why 48fps might have been excluded but excluding 24fps seems backwards to me.

Speaking of Jackson's experiment with HFR, I wonder how audiences will take to the James Cameron's Avatar sequels in 60fps.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:14 PM   #19
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Re: Panasonic Exhibits Prototype of World's First Next Generation Blu-ray Disc Player

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I am disappointed that they include 24fps right off the bat.
Is this a typo? They definitely oughtta include 24fps!

I can't imagine that 24fps wouldn't be part of the standard. It'd be a colossal waste of space to repeat frames on-disc to 60fps, and with the videophile audience they'd be targeting, I wouldn't expect frame interpolation to be on by default. (Maybe as an option?) I wouldn't read too much into the 60fps output in that press release. That might be referring to the maximum progressive frames outputted, in the same way that Blu-ray players can output in different resolutions/frame rates.

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Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post
Hell, I wish 48fps was an option as well.
I don't know if 48fps is under consideration, but worst case scenario, they could repeat frames or something to 60fps-ify some 48fps video.

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Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138 View Post
I don't think enough stuff has been shot in the format to warrant interest. Audiences don't seem to have taken to Jackson's experiments with it very well.
It could still be compelling for things like nature videos, sports, etc.

I'm not crazy about the "Ultra HD Blu-ray" name, which is inevitably going to confuse folks.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:21 PM   #20
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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Geez, my cable company can't even get HD right. It's overcompressed to the point of looking like a circa-2005 YouTube stream sometimes. I can't imagine how they'd mangle 4K.
THIS!!......

I checked out new TV sets and actually came close to getting a Sony 65" 4K model but....you also need a 4K Player, cables that support and if like me running everything thru a AVR...a AVR with 4K pass thru. I ended up getting a Sony Projector instead.

Sure the demos and set looked great but not that great to dish out even more $$$$ for content that I've seen on DVD, then upgraded to Blu-Ray and no-way fork out more to see in 4K.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:33 PM   #21
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

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I want 4K on cable/sat just for sports. Movies and TV shows will look better streamed on Netflix than my shitty Comcast.
Could not have said it better. Comcast and HD are not up to what Netflix can give us.
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Old 01-06-15, 04:39 PM   #22
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

In a 2 or 3 years, I am sure I would be upgrading to a 4K TV and Player.

Then, I will be buying all my new movies in 4K.

Until then, I will be enjoying my BR Movies being played on my HDTV and my Blu-Ray Player.
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Old 01-06-15, 06:49 PM   #23
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

With that shitty 1080p resolution.
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Old 01-06-15, 07:36 PM   #24
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

The 4K production pipeline is starting to materially impact the quality of Blu-rays for the better. I am starting to see BDs now with almost unimaginable picture quality four years ago. The first season of Black Sails sings on Blu-ray.

Here is a break-down of the new format's advantages:

https://davidsusilouncensored.wordpr...-hdr-rec-2020/
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Old 01-06-15, 08:32 PM   #25
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re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

On 50-65" TVs, very few people will even notice the difference between 4k and 1080p. It requires a bigger TV. And current BD sales are barely making a dent in the physical media sales, 4k will be a tiny fraction of that.

And the difference in quality from 4K and 1080p will be even less when streaming. Why would I want to waste my precious bandwidth for over-compressed content that will be hard to tell the difference?

Sorry, but 4K is essentially DOA.
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