Solid Snake

Sounds more nerve racking now when you say it like that. I'd love to own Robo on BD one day. I hope this release is it.

Why So Blu?

Yeah, looks like the only new feature is the 2012 Q&A.

Mr. Cinema

I hope they throw in a ticket to the remake.

Solid Snake

That'd be good.

Josh Z

That's how he justifies it to himself. However, considering that the original George Lucas was replaced by a robot around 1982, we're still talking about third party changes.

RocShemp

Is he filled with blue stuff?

hanshotfirst1138

It's apparently what the directors want. I used to subscribe to the "word of God" theory from "aeuter directors" and believed them when they said Director's Cut A or B was the "definite version." These days, with guys like Lucas, Cameron, and Hill practicing considerable revisionism and the increasing flexibility of digital and the death of 35mm, I've become a skeptic.

Any pics? How different does it look? You'd think that if anything, he's have tried to make the colors more in line with the second film.

This may be a technical loophole, but I'd argue that for the purposes of cinematic and cultural preservation and historial importance, I don't think it makes it OK.

I've been praying for the OOT for years, so far no luck .

Which could be really interesting, Verhoeven is a super-smart guy and he's always worth listening to, but that alone won't sell me on this release.

I guess that while I certainly don't like it, that does make technical sense. As the owner, Lucas has the legal right to do what he wants with Star Wars, THX 1138, etc. And it's not like some moral failure or something, the guy is a saint who's given well to lots of philanthropic organizations, and I applaud him for it. However passionately I feel about it, it's just a movie. I just wish he would show the same charity to his fans .

Solid Snake

The problem with his changes is that it's changing film history. Which is a pretty damn big deal for the art of that history.

I agree, it was his property...he could do whatever he wanted with it but still...the man that cared about the history and the culture totally died at some point.

RocShemp

Here's how the remaster would have looked had it kept the original color timing:

My Other Self

I didn't find the color timing that distracting, but now that I've seen the above "what should have been" photo I'm going to have a hard time watching it.

Solid Snake

I saw T1 enough times on TV as a kid that I KNOW wtf that bitch looks like. That color timing would annoy the shit out of me.

Same goes for Robo. I still remember how much I watched the VHS. Robo is the earliest memory of my life. Age 3, sometime before the 22nd of September but in September for sure.

I can handle the slight adjustment that Rocshemp mentions and that the CC DVD confirms, I've never seen it but I'll roll with his comments. But I won't handle the T1 shit on Robo. No. No. No. No. No. No.

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hanshotfirst1138

So were there different Blu-Ray releases, one with the new timing and one with the old? I assume the re-timed version has significantly improved picture quality.

This sounds pretentious as hell, but I think that art of any kind does eventually take on a life of its own. Harold Bloom always talks about the dialectic between the reader and the text, and I think with film, quite apart from the confluence of cultural factors in its creation, also has the love brought to it by the viewers, who bring what was going on in their lives and the film becomes an important thing to the person. When the artist goes messing with it, it may just be a film to him or her, but to the viewer, it's more than that. It's why I think that the feelings of ill will from Star Wars fans exist about the SEs, it's more than just a film or a cultural touchstone, it has actual personal meaning to many people as the characters and the world have taken on a life of their own.

WOW, was that pretentious! Seriously, I need to be hit with the annoying hipster stick!

Anyway, as regards the CC Robocop release, the main difference seems to have been the aspect ratio. I have no way of knowing this, but I'm assuming that it was projected at 1.85 in the US and 1.66 in Europe. God, Robocop, a hilariously far-fetched sci-fi film from 1987. It's a great piece of fiction about corruption bankrupting Detroit. Man, who comes up with this shit?!

Oh, wait....

Solid Snake

It goes beyond what I or a viewer may feel. The problem with something like colortiming, etc. Is that it changes film history. The perception of what that film may have been when it was released etc. That's worth bitching about. Shit like SW, T1, Blade Runner, etc. That's fucking with history. That shit shouldn't be done cuz you're hitting history. That's a big deal when it comes to an art.

Josh Z

Blade Runner should be exempted from this category, because Ridley Scott insisted that all versions of the movie should be kept in print.

Josh Z

The first Blu-ray release of The Terminator from 2006 has the movie's original color timing, but it's kind of a crummy transfer otherwise that barely looks better than DVD. The remaster is significantly more detailed, but also had a teal & orange recoloring.

There's more at play with RoboCop than just the aspect ratio. The MGM DVDs and Blu-rays have also had the colors and contrast boosted, which really skews the entire look of the movie. Skin tones often glow orange, and RoboCop's steel, which should be silver/gray, has a weird blue sheen. It looks very cartoonish.

hanshotfirst1138

That's very big of him, sure wish other directors would do the same. I always say put your money where your mouth is: if you think "your" version is better, put out both and let people choose which version they prefer. I know this is pure conspiracy-theorist conjecture, but I do think that Lucas knew damn well a lot of people didn't like the SEs, and that if he gave them the choice, it isn't the version they'd pick. That's damned peculiar, especially given that the blueish coloring is more in line with the sequel anyway. Well, here's hoping they correct it. I wonder how people in professional positions can get away with such blatant foul-ups like that. Clearly someone must think it looks good.

Josh Z

Make no mistake, when Cameron eventually gets around to doing a full remastering for Terminator 2 (probably for the inevitable 3D conversion), it will certainly also be recolored teal & orange.

hanshotfirst1138

Is the Skynet edition a mediocre transfer? If what you say is right, and it sadly probably is, then True Lies and The Abyss might suffer too, assuming the damn things ever come out. Why Cameron would do this is beyond me, especially since that icy blue is a trademark of his. Ironically enough, he actually spoke of against Lucas' tampering too. This isn't quite on the same level, but still, a bit hypocritical.

RocShemp

Watching the BD, it doesn't bother me. The overall effect makes the film simply look desaturated. But compared directly to how it could have looked, it does feel jarring and completely off.

RocShemp

Actually, the 2006 BD had an odd magenta push (which you can see in the screenshots) that was widely criticized. As I recall, the 2007 UK Definitive DVD (pictured in the first screenshot I posted) is considered to be the only release to retain the original color timing.

It's not mediocre but it's also not as good as it should be due to some DNR and ocassional artificial edge sharpening (to counteract the DNR).

Funny enough, I recall the ads that first announced the Skynet Editioned featured the T2 footage in HD and with no DNR. Imagine my dismay when I saw DNR on the actual release.

Why So Blu?

I have the German HD-DVD of T2.

Josh Z

The UK DVD is the same master as the American DVD, just converted to PAL. MGM did not strike multiple masters for the movie in different territories.

Josh Z

The last time a new high-def master for Terminator 2 was struck was the early 2000s. All subsequent Blu-ray (and HD DVD) releases have been sourced from that old DVD master, just with differing amounts of new digital processing applied. The Skynet Blu-ray is the same basic transfer, but more heavily DNR'ed than some of the others.

Generally speaking, the European Blu-ray (and HD DVD) editions from Studio Canal are the best-looking, because they've had the least extraneous processing. The movie could still use a new film scan and proper remastering from scratch, but if that ever happens, it will invevitably be recolored teal & orange, because that's what James Cameron does now.

Solid Snake

Damn. I thought we had some news on this BD.

Ugh. If Cameron fucks around with True Lies and T2. That'd bother me more than T1.

Rypro 525

a teal & orange T2 just wouldn't look right. So used to the blue look