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HD Talk The place to discuss HD DVD, Blu-ray and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

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Old 10-07-10, 01:25 PM   #101
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Lemmy View Post
Give it time; it will happen eventually.
Not when DVD continues to get more titles released every year while Blu-ray has three studios essentially waving bye-bye to catalog on the format.
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Old 10-07-10, 01:34 PM   #102
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

Does anyone think that Blu-ray including backward compatibility is unintentionally keeping DVD alive longer than studios had planned? When DVD was first released, the only way to watch anything on your shiny new DVD player was by buying a DVD, which was good for DVD sales. But with Blu-ray having backward compatibility, people with Blu-ray aren't forced to completely make the switch to Blu-ray Discs, but can play cheaper priced DVDs on their Blu-ray player if they want to.
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Old 10-07-10, 01:36 PM   #103
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Coral View Post
"Failing" may be too strong a word, but Blu-Ray is obviously nowhere near the success that Sony and the studios wanted and expected it to be. The format was supposed to account for 50% of movie sales by now, but we see it's fallen far from that goal.
Well I think part of it is that it's taken quite a bit of time for HDTV's to be adopted as well. When DVD was released, pretty much everyone could see an amazing difference on the TVs they already owned. But Blu-ray requires an HDTV to really do it justice. Plus there was the whole confusion with Toshiba wanted a slice of the pie with HD-DVD.
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Old 10-07-10, 01:58 PM   #104
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

Every time a big blow 'em up, shoot 'em up PS3-type action movie comes along and does gangbusters on Blu-ray, (TDK, Avatar, IM2), everybody starts oohing and aahing over the Blu-ray format having its big break-through...

Then, a few weeks later, when its market share has settled down into its standard 10% - 15% range, out comes the excuse Rolodex.
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Old 10-07-10, 02:22 PM   #105
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by BuckNaked2k View Post
Every time a big blow 'em up, shoot 'em up PS3-type action movie comes along and does gangbusters on Blu-ray, (TDK, Avatar, IM2), everybody starts oohing and aahing over the Blu-ray format having its big break-through...

Then, a few weeks later, when its market share has settled down into its standard 10% - 15% range, out comes the excuse Rolodex.
What does a blockbuster have to do with the PS3?
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Old 10-07-10, 02:39 PM   #106
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Anubis2005X View Post
What does a blockbuster have to do with the PS3?
I didn't say "blockbuster". I cited films friendly to the PS3 demographic. Sex and the City did big numbers at the box office, but didn't exactly move a whole lot of units on Blu.
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Old 10-07-10, 02:40 PM   #107
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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I think that the "average" home movie watcher was not going to be easily convinced to upgrade again, considering so many had just recently made the switch from VHS to DVD itself.
I think this is the main reason we haven't seen Blu-ray take off like the studios wanted. When Blu-ray launched in 2006, there were still tons of people switching over from VHS (also, didn't they just stop manufacturing VHS tapes in '06?) and then all of a sudden you have not one but TWO new video formats out, but to get the full use of these formats you needed a hi-def setup, which at the time most people didn't have. I think people weren't willing or didn't see the need to upgrade at the time and I think even now a lot of people don't see a reason to upgrade their setup to hi-def. This is probably why studios keep pushing blockbusters and sporting events in their hi-def advertising campaigns. If you want people to buy into hi-def, are you going to show them Gone with the Wind or are you going to show them a big, flashy, eye-candy movie like Transformers? Maybe if there had been no format war and maybe if Blu-ray had launched a little later, more people might have bought in at the get go.
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Old 10-07-10, 03:21 PM   #108
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Tsung View Post
Does anyone think that Blu-ray including backward compatibility is unintentionally keeping DVD alive longer than studios had planned? When DVD was first released, the only way to watch anything on your shiny new DVD player was by buying a DVD, which was good for DVD sales. But with Blu-ray having backward compatibility, people with Blu-ray aren't forced to completely make the switch to Blu-ray Discs, but can play cheaper priced DVDs on their Blu-ray player if they want to.
I think NOT having backward compatibility would have created further resistance to HD but it was choice that was sort of a double-edge sword. Look at how limited Laserdisc was and it didn't even require a new TV.

S-VHS was in the same boat as Blu-ray was, although the studios never really pushed that format becuase, I imagine, market tests showed it wasn't worth pursuing.

S-VHS was backward compatible and had superior picture and sound to standard VHS. The problem was that the tapes visually looked the same and functioned the same. It would have been to difficult to convince people to drop another $700 on a machine to replace the one they just paid $500 for.

This is still the same case with Blu-ray and DVD although Blu-ray prices have certainly come down ... but maybe too late.

Last edited by orangerunner; 10-07-10 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 10-07-10, 04:36 PM   #109
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

Blu-ray would have done much better in sales growth if not for a few factors totally under the control of the studios. The format war in retrospect was a disaster that set the market back 2 to 3 years. That alone was a major contributor that just confused the general populace. You have to blame the HD-DVD stalwarts at Warner for that decision. Toshiba does not try to compete with a rival format if Warner only backs one horse from the beginning.

As for catalog titles, the studios are pulling back for one major reason. Best Buy's decision to basically abandon catalog media in their stores (largely because they overpriced BD from the beginning, often selling at full MSRP) has sent a death-chill throughout the home video departments of each studio. There are simply no outlets willing to stock catalog titles in sufficient quantities anymore to support their production. Amazon just can't make up the deficit as an Internet retailer, most catalog purchases are impulse buys in a retail store.
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Old 10-07-10, 04:37 PM   #110
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by big e View Post
If you want people to buy into hi-def, are you going to show them Gone with the Wind or are you going to show them a big, flashy, eye-candy movie like Transformers?
Looking at a movie like Iron Man 2, which most people probably agree is a movie that was made for Blu-ray, and then seeing that so far, 48% of people that bought the movie still bought it on DVD seems to show that quite a lot of people that should be into Blu-ray by now still see DVD as "good enough," which is a troubling sign.

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Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
This is still the same case with Blu-ray and DVD although Blu-ray prices have certainly come down ... but maybe too late.
Sometimes I think that by marketing Blu-ray as a "premium product" studios effectively marketed Blu-ray out of the game right at the start.
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Old 10-07-10, 05:02 PM   #111
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Blu-ray would have done much better in sales growth if not for a few factors totally under the control of the studios. The format war in retrospect was a disaster that set the market back 2 to 3 years. That alone was a major contributor that just confused the general populace. You have to blame the HD-DVD stalwarts at Warner for that decision. Toshiba does not try to compete with a rival format if Warner only backs one horse from the beginning.

As for catalog titles, the studios are pulling back for one major reason. Best Buy's decision to basically abandon catalog media in their stores (largely because they overpriced BD from the beginning, often selling at full MSRP) has sent a death-chill throughout the home video departments of each studio. There are simply no outlets willing to stock catalog titles in sufficient quantities anymore to support their production. Amazon just can't make up the deficit as an Internet retailer, most catalog purchases are impulse buys in a retail store.
Warner and Paramount initially only backed HD DVD. They thought the PS3 would be as big of a seller as the PS2 (and we know how that turned out) and went neutral in April 2006.
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Old 10-07-10, 05:05 PM   #112
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

You're right on catalog. Retailers want nothing to do with it as they don't make anything off it since DVDs are practically priced as free. Why spend $20 on a BD when the DVD is $5?
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Old 10-07-10, 06:14 PM   #113
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Blu-ray would have done much better in sales growth if not for a few factors totally under the control of the studios. The format war in retrospect was a disaster that set the market back 2 to 3 years. That alone was a major contributor that just confused the general populace. You have to blame the HD-DVD stalwarts at Warner for that decision. Toshiba does not try to compete with a rival format if Warner only backs one horse from the beginning.
Although the hi-def format war certainly lasted longer, DVD managed to grow rapidly despite its own format war with DIVX which saw Dreamworks, 20th Century Fox, and Paramount Pictures all initially releasing exclusively on the DIVX format.

Beyond that, I think its very unfair to solely blame WB. The dynamics of the hi-def format war were complex with plenty of blame to pass around on both sides.
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Old 10-07-10, 06:21 PM   #114
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Tsung View Post
Looking at a movie like Iron Man 2, which most people probably agree is a movie that was made for Blu-ray, and then seeing that so far, 48% of people that bought the movie still bought it on DVD seems to show that quite a lot of people that should be into Blu-ray by now still see DVD as "good enough," which is a troubling sign.
Not to mention, the "Blu-ray" was actually a combo pack, so (like Avatar), it's impossible to tell how many people just bought it instead of the DVD, "just in case".
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Old 10-07-10, 06:24 PM   #115
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Originally Posted by Anubis2005X View Post
Well I think part of it is that it's taken quite a bit of time for HDTV's to be adopted as well. When DVD was released, pretty much everyone could see an amazing difference on the TVs they already owned. But Blu-ray requires an HDTV to really do it justice. Plus there was the whole confusion with Toshiba wanted a slice of the pie with HD-DVD.
HDTV adoption is definitely a factor, but it's hard to dismiss the "good enough" factor. I'm sure many here know people that own an HDTV who either a) haven't jumped on Blu-Ray yet or b) have a BD player but haven't stopped buying DVDs.

Let's not forget (as mentioned may times) many have reduced their movie purchases for a number of reasons (ie. rentals, digital download, buyers remorse, etc).
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Old 10-07-10, 06:33 PM   #116
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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HDTV adoption is definitely a factor, but it's hard to dismiss the "good enough" factor. I'm sure many here know people that own an HDTV who either a) haven't jumped on Blu-Ray yet or b) have a BD player but haven't stopped buying DVDs.
Also, on smaller screens, a good upscaled DVD doesn't look all that bad.

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Old 10-07-10, 06:38 PM   #117
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

A 2-3 year format war ending with a bad US recession. This isn't rocket science folks.
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Old 10-08-10, 08:14 AM   #118
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

There are lots of catalog titles that I "want" on Blu but even if every DVD I own was on Blu and they were say only $1.00 to repurchase I still would not do it. There is no way I will ever rewatch all of the DVD's I own the way it is...a better format is still not going to give me more time to enjoy them.
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Old 10-08-10, 09:05 AM   #119
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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A 2-3 year format war ending with a bad US recession. This isn't rocket science folks.
You mean 1.5 years, right?

Blu-ray has now been around for over 4 years. It's been almost double the time since the format war has been over.
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Old 10-08-10, 10:48 AM   #120
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

The format war hasn't been a factor for such a long time. It's not even worth mentioning.

Of course we'll hear the same thing as the last two years, that this Christmas will be important for the format and we'll see a huge number people adopting the format. But it wont happen.
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Old 10-08-10, 05:59 PM   #121
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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Does anyone think that Blu-ray including backward compatibility is unintentionally keeping DVD alive longer than studios had planned? When DVD was first released, the only way to watch anything on your shiny new DVD player was by buying a DVD, which was good for DVD sales. But with Blu-ray having backward compatibility, people with Blu-ray aren't forced to completely make the switch to Blu-ray Discs, but can play cheaper priced DVDs on their Blu-ray player if they want to.
My first DVD player was a laserdisc combo player, so I had less reason to re-buy stuff I already had on laserdisc

Before deciding to re-buy a title on Blu-Ray that I already have on any other format, I watch what I have first on my new setup. Some DVDs still look pretty good, but others look like ass.
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Old 10-09-10, 01:14 PM   #122
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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You mean 1.5 years, right?

Blu-ray has now been around for over 4 years. It's been almost double the time since the format war has been over.
Well, HDDVD came out March 31, 2006 and lasted until Feb 2008. Even after that they had a lot of leftover product on the shelf that stores had to get rid of. Joe Public doesnt know when the format folded, just what they see on the store shelf, two different cases

Yes, the format war was indeed important, but I'm not getting into an argument over it. Most people don't have money to be throwing at BR the last two years. Doesnt matter if they had the market to themselves in 2009-2010. I know people that cut down on dvd purchases due to the economy, much less getting BR. I know other people who just bought a BR player. The adoption curve is going to take longer than dvd, but it will get there.
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Old 10-09-10, 02:00 PM   #123
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

What was the biggest seller for DVD four yrs in? While the format as a whole might be behind, I thought the new releases were at one point outpacing the big sellers in DVD's day.
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Old 10-09-10, 03:41 PM   #124
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

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What was the biggest seller for DVD four yrs in? While the format as a whole might be behind, I thought the new releases were at one point outpacing the big sellers in DVD's day.
I'd imagine at the four year mark, it was probably "The Matrix"...as it was definitely at the top for awhile there early on...
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Old 10-09-10, 05:00 PM   #125
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re: Blu-ray and DVD sales - #2, but we try harder

Anyone think that Blu-ray's biggest problem may be that people are just not interested in upgrading to Blu-ray?
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