Jay G.

I agree, Fox isn't the hold out; they currently get the same cut of the revenue as they did under Lucasfilm, and Fox would most likely want to generate as much revenue as they can from the films before they lose the distribution rights to most of them in 2020. It's Disney that might not want to share the profits with Fox, since if they simply wait until 2020, most of the rights revert back to Lucasfilm aka Disney, and Disney can distribute all of the films except for the original film in house. I'm betting Disney is right now working on how to get the distribution rights back to the original Star Wars as well, negotiating with Fox over an appropriate payment and such.

rocket1312

Exactly. Unless Fox is just over-the-moon bitter about not being offered a chance to buy Lucasfilm and doesn't want to be complicit in promoting a rival studio's franchise, I just don't see the upside in them blocking a new release.

That said, all of this is just speculation. As far as we know, Disney is working hard right now to restore the classic trilogy. Just because it's not coming out tomorrow doesn't mean that it's never going to happen. Am I optimistic? Not really. I stopped being an optimist as it relates to Star Wars a long time ago. However, I'm also not worried about the original versions being lost to history. As I alluded to earlier, there's some awe inspiring work going on in the fan community. The first film in particular is being cared for in a manner that I'd dare to consider more trustworthy than anything Lucasfilm would do. It certainly takes a crap all over the garbage that is the official blu-rays (and I'm not just talking endless SE changes).

Josh Z

I agree. At this point, Disney is more likely the problem than Fox.

When Disney bought Lucasfilm, they did so primarily for the rights to produce new Star Wars content under the Disney banner. They don't seem to have much interest in the old Star Wars content, which is too entangled in complicated distribution and licensing agreements with other entities.

As soon as the merger went through, Disney canceled the Clone Wars TV series (distributed by Warner) and greenlit the self-distributed "Rebels" series to replace it. The LucasArts division was shuttered and all pending Star Wars video games canceled. New Star Wars games will be produced in-house by Disney.

Obi-Wanma

NOT true. Lucasarts was a gaming company that they owned. They shuttered it, and licensed the Star Wars video game property to Electronic Arts, a third party.

Josh Z

Regardless, Disney cut off all the old Lucasfilm contracts to produce new content on their own terms.

stvn1974

I wonder how the artists who actually did the work on the alterations felt about it.

"Honey, I am off to work to ruin Return Of The Jedi, see you for dinner."

Obi-Wanma

The gaming contract is the exact opposite of what they did with everything else though. If they wanted to produce games in house, they were already doing that. Lucasarts was a wholly owned subsidiary. They decided they didn't want to be in the business of making Star Wars games.

fujishig

Yeah, Disney shut down much of their video game studios, especially after the failure of Epic Mickey 2 (even the Disney Infinity staff was cut down recently).

hanshotfirst1138

I've often be curious how many of the people who's work was simply erased felt. Though maybe they believe that they were subsumed under Lucas and support what he did, who knows?

Yes, it doesn't sound like sharing is something in which they have a vested interest. I GUESS I could see them buying the distribution rights from Fox IF Fox were willing to sell, but I find it difficult to believe that they would be.


I'm Mike O over there. Mess up your name when you create a username, get stuck with it forever....But yeah, it's really sad the fan community is willing to spend time and money at no profit to do the work on the films they are when the creator isn't. But we've reached an amazing technological point where that's possible.

They could, but since God hates Star Wars fans, I'm not holding out hope .

Yeah, but fans don't have access to 35mm negatives.

Agreed. Quite apart from the SE changes, given that Lucas was at the forefront of the digital revolution, apparently there have been questionable technical choices too.

windom

Just to piss off GL they should release the OOT films on Blu-ray with new transfers and extras supervised by Marcia Lucas and Gary Kurtz with commentary for all 3 films by David Prowse.

rocket1312

I am sad to say that at this point I have more faith in crazy obsessive fans doing professional quality work on nth gen sources than I do in Lucasfilm (and heaven forbid Lowry) working with the o-neg.

mcnabb

Here is a recent article about the OOT movies and why they could be released soon or may take awhile to be released:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/...-wars-we-want/

hanshotfirst1138

Post earlier in the thread, it is in fact the article we're currently discussing .

mcnabb

My bad! Haven't been here in awhile as I have been in the Episode 7 thread.

milo bloom

Here's my two cents - I don't buy the idea that it would be too much money or work to restore the originals. If they can dig out projection prints of old silent, b&w movies from some goat farmers barn, and fix it up and release it on Bluray and DVD, then doing the theatrical versions of the Holy Trilogy should be a cakewalk.

I cannot accept the thinking that there are any technical challenges to this project (years ago when they announced the LD master DVDs, Robert Harris himself offered to do the restoration to bring them up to snuff). At this point, it's simply political - the distribution issues regarding Fox's rights. And if Disney was willing to drop 4.5 billion big ones to buy Lucasfilm, I can't see them not being willing to cut a deal with Fox to make something like this happen.

I wonder if a deal could be struck where Fox would be given the rights to a different version of the OT (maybe the specific 1997 versions?) in exchange for the other rights they hold. Disney could release the original versions plus any future "special editions", and Fox would get to keep distributing the 1997 versions (and I'd buy a copy, just for completion's sake).

stvn1974

It only took 50 years for Fox and WB to work out the distribution rights for the Batman TV series so I don't see the OT coming out any time soon.

rocket1312

Apples and Oranges. The issues with Batman had more to do with getting clearance on stuff like music and guest actors (due to there being no language in the original contracts for home video royalties and such) as it had to do with Fox/WB entanglements. Fox never had any problems releasing the 1966 movie and Warner Brothers would have just as much of a claim on that.

The Star Wars rights are not some legacy elephant that no one wants to deal with. I'm sure that whatever deal Fox has with Lucasfilm is well understood on Disney's end. I can't imagine they would hand over $4 billion for the rights to the franchise without figuring that out first. That doesn't mean they will release the OT anytime soon, it just means that they if they wanted to, there's probably nothing that could stop them.

stvn1974

Disney is going to make their $4 plus billion back on just the first three films. After merchandise and tie ins plus everything else in the future I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even bother with the first six films. Let FOX distribute them until 2020 and the work out a deal to co-release ANH in future sets and not even bother with the OOT.

rocket1312

All of that may very well be true. My point was that it's all in Disney's hands. If they want to release eps. 1-6 in some form or another, then they will release them with Fox getting the same financial cut they always got. It's possible Disney doesn't want to release them as long as Fox has a financial stake or maybe they don't even care about the old films at all. However, the idea of legal red tape getting in the way of any release just doesn't seem very likely to me.

The question we should be asking is to what extent does Disney value the OOT. These days studios can justify the cost of restoration on older films because those assets are then protected and can be used to generate revenue for years to come in a multitude of venues (tv, theatrical screenings, home video, etc.). It's been pretty well established that the Star Wars films will have to be re-worked at some point down the line given that they currently only exist in sub-par 1080p masters. However, given what was done to the o-negs at the time the SEs were made, it would take some serious time/effort/money to restore them to their original form. Unless Disney plans to make those original versions the "official" versions of the films, the opportunities to recoup the cost would be few and far between. For all intents and purposes they'd be the most expensive extras ever produced for home video. Then again, maybe Bob Iger is secretly a huge Clive Revill fan and will go all John Hammond and demand the gourmet ice cream.

Double_Oh_7

The OOT is what fans really want. They've bought the Special Editions too many times, they're over them. The OOT is the only sponge left to wring dry.

Jay G.

Yeah, it's unlike situations like the Batman TV series, where there weren't legal agreements in place for a home video release. Lucasfilm has an agreement with Fox, so legally speaking, there's nothing from a legal perspective that prevents a release; it's just whether Disney feels like doing so under the current Fox deal, or waiting until that expires and negotiating something else.

It's debatable whether anything has to be done to the o-negs at all. If Lucasfilm scanned everything in digitally to 4K/8K and made a digital restoration, preserving the original cut in a DI, I doubt many fans would grumble about the o-negs being of the SE cuts. In fact, I doubt the 2004 and 2011 revisions were incorporated into the o-negs.

Considering that you've already mentioned that Star Wars really needs a new 4K/8K transfer and restoration anyway, the cost to also scan in and restore the few minutes of original material that's been altered would be incremental. It'd be similar to how CBS offered the original FX on the Star Trek Blu-rays.

Some parallel may also be drawn to the Blade Runner Blu-ray release, which the deluxe versions have 4 extra cuts of the film, including the workprint cut. Surely transferring and authoring all 4 extra cuts of this film had to cost more than transferring one alternate cut of Star Wars (although at this point, with the original, Ep IV title re-release, 1997 SE, 2004 SE, and 2011 SE, Star Wars has at least 5 different cuts of it as well).

If Disney re-released just the 2011 versions in new box sets, people would buy them. This series is a continual earner, similar to Disney's own animated films. So it's not like Disney has to turn to a OOT release out of desperation. However, the OOT does have a sizable enough demand that it'd likely be in Disney's interest financially speaking to produce a release of it.

Josh Z

Let's not forget that Disney has just as much a history of revisionism as Lucasfilm. Fantasia and several classic animated shorts are only available in censored form. Song of the South has been suppressed entirely. The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast have had their animation digitally altered to conform to the IMAX re-release versions of each film. Almost all of the Disney animated classics have been recolored to look more vibrant and "pop" on HDTVs.

Disney doesn't seem to give much of a crap about preserving the original versions of its own movies. I wouldn't count on the company to suddenly have a change of heart about a smaller brand it has acquired.

hanshotfirst1138

Most of Disney's revision has been to remove the "offensive" stuff, hasn't it? I'm in no way justifying it, but hasn't most of it been been changes to individual scenes?

story

I can't even remember what OOT stands for anymore. Original Old Trilogy? I thought it would be OUT, Original Unaltered Trilogy. Whatever we call it, I want it.

hanshotfirst1138

Original original trilogy.