Release List Reviews Shop Join News DVD Giveaways Video Games Advertise
DVD Reviews | Theatrical Reviews | Adult DVD Reviews | Video Game Reviews | Price Search Buy Stuff Here
DVD Talk
DVD Reviews DVD Talk Headlines HD Reviews


Add to My Yahoo! - RSS 2.0 - RSS 2.0 - DVD Talk Podcast RSS -


Go Back   DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk

HD Talk The place to discuss HD DVD, Blu-ray and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-06-12, 06:42 AM   #4351
theWitcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: location, location...
Posts: 439
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Deadpan View Post
The point I was trying to make was: I'd rather this alleged release acknowledges the troubles of the film, warts and all, rather than glossing over those in favor of one-sided essays proclaiming this a "misunderstood masterpiece". I hope they're not just waiting for former UA employees to die off so it can be a Cimino circle jerk. I tried listening to that guy's commentary on Year of the Dragon... if I was able to stay neutral about him after reading The Final Cut (which is what made me interested in watching Heaven's Gate to begin with), about halfway into the commentary I hated this guy. "I refuse to use storyboards, they're only for directors who have no imagination." At this point I wonder- why the hell am I listening to this guy? In fact, why would anyone take storyboard advice from the guy who really could've used some storyboards on Heaven's Gate? Does he give advice on fiscal responsibility during The Deer Hunter commentary?
I apologize for the tasteless joke but these are excellent points. I'm not very familiar with Cimino's movies but I have seen 'Deer Hunter.' It's nice to have one more Cazale performance, but I'm not sure why you give final cut and buckets of cash to anyone -- particularly for a fading genre -- based on that movie. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and currently there are no endless rails of blow lined up on my desk.

It has probably been around 20 years since I read the Bach book but I don't recall Cimino coming off very sympathetically. Of course, Cimino's isssues on the HG production were likely a primary contributing factor to the author losing a lucrative studio job; there was probably plenty of score settling involved with its narrative. I'm also sure there may be ego stroking afoot at Criterion if they care about Cimino participation in a HG release. Perhaps the producer of the disk thinks it's not only a misunderstood masterpiece but one of the greatest movies ever made. Maybe no one at Criterion thinks very much at all of the movie but someone (finally) might turn a profit on a HG release due to its cult status and it might as well be them.

There appears to be fewer audio commentaries on Crierion releases these days so perhaps there will be no solo Cimino track, where -- based on your impressions of the YOTD commentary -- he tries to elevate what most seem to think is a deeply flawed movie. Perhaps Cimino is willing to acknowledge problems with the movie and take some responsibility for its failure. Maybe he will just get an on-camera interview, and Criterion will also interview some of the guys who went on to form Orion. I'm sure there are some delicate negotiations based on all the egos and bad blood involved.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-12, 05:01 AM   #4352
Living Deadpan
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,210
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by theWitcher View Post
I'm sure there are some delicate negotiations based on all the egos and bad blood involved.
Indeed. However, Hell pretty much froze over when they released that 3-disc Imperial Edition of Caligula. If that's possible, anything is.

Is this real news, though, or just hearsay? You may recall Sony was going to release Ishtar on Blu-ray, but that got yanked. The first time I read that Criterion was going to put out Heaven's Gate, I was wondering whether it was a belated April Fool's joke. "You already made the fake cover for Kindergarten Cop, this is just overkill."

I might be concerned if they do let Cimino supervise the transfer or re-integrate the footage from the 5 hour cut. We don't want to be reading "Cimino bankrupts Criterion!"

At any rate, it's not just the UA suits that have negative things to say about Cimino. There was an AV Club interview with Tom Noonan which pretty much dispelled the notion that the film was a joy for everyone on the creative end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Noonan
[on Heaven's Gate (1980)] That was probably the worst experience I had in my adult life at that point. Michael Cimino's not a very nice person... He pointed a blank at my face once - which is really dangerous; you can kill somebody with a blank gun - like, threateningly. Like, "I want you to do this, and if you don't..." He was really crazy.
I guess not everyone had as much fun as Mickey Rourke or Jeff Bridges.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-12, 03:03 PM   #4353
Mabuse
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,017
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
My statement was more about the fact that while no one may come right out and state it, the prevailing attitude here is one of acting like CC is the "be all, end all." Of course when that question is put to folks directly they won't admit they believe that, but they sure act like it is. Point being you don't have to be a CC disciple to be a fan of film.

Normally I wouldn't even engage in this debate, but I happened to pop in here to see what might be coming out next and I saw Mabuse's statement and felt compelled to reply.

Anyway it's not my intent to come in here and derail things any further. Please feel free to have the last word. No minds will be changed obviously.
Frankly I do think they are the "be all end all" in regards to making a great poduct. That's one of the number one things I like about Criterion. I genuinly admire their buisiness practices, their standards, their approach to presenting films the way they were meant to be seen. The very film studios who make many of the films in the collection don't take the care that Criterion does in presenting the film properly and making it a product worth owning. The "Criterion" name on a disc means it's as close to perfect as you're going to get. When I see the name "Universal" or "Paramount" on a disc I know there's a good chance it's going to be of poor quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 08:22 AM   #4354
bunkaroo
DVD Talk Legend
 
bunkaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 13,522
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Frankly I do think they are the "be all end all" in regards to making a great poduct. That's one of the number one things I like about Criterion. I genuinly admire their buisiness practices, their standards, their approach to presenting films the way they were meant to be seen. The very film studios who make many of the films in the collection don't take the care that Criterion does in presenting the film properly and making it a product worth owning. The "Criterion" name on a disc means it's as close to perfect as you're going to get. When I see the name "Universal" or "Paramount" on a disc I know there's a good chance it's going to be of poor quality.
I won't argue that at all - I agree CC means quality for sure. I just took exception to the notion one can't be a film lover if they don't love a lot of CC films. I don't have any issue with how CC treats or picks their films. I'm thrilled to be getting Being John Malkovich next week.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 08:41 AM   #4355
Randy Miller III
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Randy Miller III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 4,515
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
I've been enjoying Wes Anderson films before "hipsters" was even a term.
Doubtful...the word was used as early as the 1940s. Even the modern version of the word was used in a Smashing Pumpkins song circa 1994. Bottle Rocket wasn't even out until two years later.
__________________
Profile and most recent reviews
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 09:14 AM   #4356
Gizmo
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 29,860
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Miller III View Post
Doubtful...the word was used as early as the 1940s. Even the modern version of the word was used in a Smashing Pumpkins song circa 1994. Bottle Rocket wasn't even out until two years later.
Calling people "hipsters" is a pretty new thing. While the idea (and name) may have existed long before, it's only really been a part of everyday vocabulary to describe someone (glasses, rolled up pants, "ironic", etc.) for a few years (at best). I know it was certainly never a term when I was in High School a decade ago.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 09:18 AM   #4357
Randy Miller III
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Randy Miller III's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 4,515
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

So, you're saying the term didn't exist in everyday vocabulary until you heard of it. Gotcha.
__________________
Profile and most recent reviews
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 09:25 AM   #4358
GenPion
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
GenPion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,556
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

From my own experiences, I am going to have to agree that 'hipster' is a word that hasn't been used as frequently until recently -- over the past few years. I hear it all the time now but I used to never hear anyone using the word.

I'm not going to try to say the word didn't exist before, but it does seem as though it is much more common today than it ever was before.
__________________
My Setup: Samsung PN50A450 50-Inch Plasma HDTV / Denon 1909 7.1 Receiver / Polk 5.1 Surround Speakers / Oppo 103D Darbee Edition [Region Free]/ Sony 250 GB Slim Playstation 3 / HD-DVD Player HD-A30
My DVDTalk Reviews / My DVD/HD DVD/Blu-ray Collection
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 09:35 AM   #4359
Solid Snake
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Formerly known as "Solid Snake PAC"/Denton, Tx
Posts: 27,859
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Like it was said. The term has been around for a while but never has it ever been used so goddamn much until post 2000.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 09:58 AM   #4360
Doctorossi
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,412
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

It's quite irrelevant when the term came into popular parlance. The point is that the people with hipster attitudes (whatever you actually call them) surely produce a more circular Venn diagram when paired with Wes Anderson movies than with anything else Criterion offers.

The hipster is to the Wes Anderson movie as the chicken is to the egg.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 10:07 AM   #4361
Gizmo
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 29,860
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctorossi View Post
It's quite irrelevant when the term came into popular parlance. The point is that the people with hipster attitudes (whatever you actually call them) surely produce a more circular Venn diagram when paired with Wes Anderson movies than with anything else Criterion offers.

The hipster is to the Wes Anderson movie as the chicken is to the egg.
So shouldn't I love Criterion since it makes all the hipsters happy?

Maybe you're just mad not every loves everything Criterion puts out (that the respective studios who owns the film usually has little interest in doing so - because sales would be low). Thankfully there are spine collectors keeping Criterion afloat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 10:10 AM   #4362
kefrank
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 4,041
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
I've been enjoying Wes Anderson films before "hipsters" was even a term.
Until your subsequent replies, I really thought you were being intentionally ironic here, because the whole, "I was into XXXX before it was cool!" attitude is a defining characteristic of hipsterism.
__________________
--Kevin--
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 10:58 AM   #4363
LPMA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Cabin in the Woods
Posts: 860
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post
So shouldn't I love Criterion since it makes all the hipsters happy?

Maybe you're just mad not every loves everything Criterion puts out (that the respective studios who owns the film usually has little interest in doing so - because sales would be low). Thankfully there are spine collectors keeping Criterion afloat.
I see how you still choose to ignore the numerous explanations given in this thread about film rights and how the notion of "respective studios" doesn't apply to most films released by Criterion.

Also, just adding my own two cents in: How would it make sense, financially, for a company like Criterion to spend copious amounts of money restoring a film, researching extras and creating a "deluxe" $40 SRP package for movies with "low sales", and not for other film studios who would probably just put it out there with little-to-no effort at a much lower price point?
__________________
My Criterion
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 11:01 AM   #4364
Sondheim
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Near the Great Salt Lake
Posts: 1,394
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by LPMA View Post
I see how you still choose to ignore the numerous explanations given in this thread about film rights and how the notion of "respective studios" doesn't apply to most films released by Criterion.
I'm guessing that at this point he's just messing with us.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 11:10 AM   #4365
Doctorossi
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,412
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by LPMA View Post
I see how you still choose to ignore the numerous explanations given in this thread about film rights and how the notion of "respective studios" doesn't apply to most films released by Criterion.
This is irrelevant, too. Even if we accept his "too unpopular for the studios to bother with" argument, popularity/sales volume does not have a 1:1 relationship with quality.

Besides, his argument completely defeats itself: if all of these movies really had no market fanbase worth bothering with, Criterion would be long out of business.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 12:12 PM   #4366
Mabuse
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,017
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

The bottom line is that Criterion takes these "marginal movies" that the studios pass over because they wouldn't make a lot of money and they actually make a lot of money selling them. Criterion does a better job exploiting film properties than the very studios who made the films, thus proving how brilliant Criterion is. Anyone or anything that is that brilliant always attracts nuisance haters. A big part of it is resentment for being successful. The frequent lament is that Criterion isn't doing anything right and they succeed only because they blundered into some "spine number collecting phenomenon".
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 12:22 PM   #4367
nando820
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
nando820's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,784
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

New Hipster movie coming soon!!!!

__________________
My Reviews and Music
Gastelos.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 12:31 PM   #4368
dino88
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: STL
Posts: 6,306
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by nando820 View Post
New Hipster movie coming soon!!!!
Is that being released in theaters or just Starbucks?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 01:13 PM   #4369
Doctorossi
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,412
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by dino88 View Post
Is that being released in theaters or just Starbucks?
Starbucks Criterion on-demand download, straight into your internet-enabled bakelite glasses (lenses optional).
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 07:22 PM   #4370
PopcornTreeCt
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 25,827
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by nando820 View Post
New Hipster movie coming soon!!!!

Hipster or not this movie looks fucking amazing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-12, 07:54 PM   #4371
slop101
DVD Talk Legend
 
slop101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: So. Cal.
Posts: 20,991
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

I hope this makes it Criterion then:

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-12, 05:14 AM   #4372
Living Deadpan
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,210
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

I miss the days when hipsters called each other nihilists.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-12, 07:52 AM   #4373
wendersfan
Moderator
 
wendersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: DOS A CERO
Posts: 29,325
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Take the America BBS set... I've debated all week whether to get it or not. Great value for the films.. I've only seen Easy Rider, which I enjoyed and appreciated. Do I love it in any special way? Not really....so, it's just back to whether I should own a film I merely 'enjoy' or keep it to films I really love.
That set is worth it just for Five Easy Pieces. Or The Last Picture Show. Or The King of Marvin Gardens.
__________________
"Fifth Element may be as dumb and artless as Johnny Mnemonic, but since a frenchman made it it must be ART!" -Pants
"...I think it's a low blow to draw attention to wendersfan's drunken state. " - dork
"Just because their victims are still alive doesn't mean they didn't commit murder." - grundle
"You concentrate on the sad wanna be hooliganism and let us worry about the actual soccer." - rocketsauce (final score: Columbus 2-Chicago 1)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-12, 08:53 AM   #4374
Tommy Bunz
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 60
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Miller III View Post
Doubtful...the word was used as early as the 1940s. Even the modern version of the word was used in a Smashing Pumpkins song circa 1994. Bottle Rocket wasn't even out until two years later.
Elaine calls Kramer one in The Glasses episode of seinfeld (from season 5, also 1994)
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-12, 09:17 AM   #4375
Gizmo
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 29,860
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
The bottom line is that Criterion takes these "marginal movies" that the studios pass over because they wouldn't make a lot of money and they actually make a lot of money selling them. Criterion does a better job exploiting film properties than the very studios who made the films, thus proving how brilliant Criterion is. Anyone or anything that is that brilliant always attracts nuisance haters. A big part of it is resentment for being successful. The frequent lament is that Criterion isn't doing anything right and they succeed only because they blundered into some "spine number collecting phenomenon".
Wow? They make a lot of money selling them? Oh boy. You have any proof of that or is that just an assumption? Many think they lose money on many releases have to releases 'normal' films just to make it back to even. You realize they have to spend money not only obtaining the films from the respective studios, but cleaning it up, finding extras etc. (In some cases, they still don't look as good as the Studio released one)

But please, break out the sales figures. You tell me how many Criterion Blu-rays have reached the Top 20 for any week since 2008 (since you are the one claiming they make a a lot of money). I mean, Criterion is doing so awesome they sold a huge amount of their catalog to Hulu to stream - with commercials. Yeah, they are making boat loads on selling discs and Amazon regularly sells them for nearly 50% off MSRP just a few weeks after release
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.

Rules - DVD Talk - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Copyright 2011 DVDTalk.com All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.