Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II

[theWitcher]

Originally Posted by Living Deadpan

The point I was trying to make was: I'd rather this alleged release acknowledges the troubles of the film, warts and all, rather than glossing over those in favor of one-sided essays proclaiming this a "misunderstood masterpiece". I hope they're not just waiting for former UA employees to die off so it can be a Cimino circle jerk. I tried listening to that guy's commentary on Year of the Dragon... if I was able to stay neutral about him after reading The Final Cut (which is what made me interested in watching Heaven's Gate to begin with), about halfway into the commentary I hated this guy. "I refuse to use storyboards, they're only for directors who have no imagination." At this point I wonder- why the hell am I listening to this guy? In fact, why would anyone take storyboard advice from the guy who really could've used some storyboards on Heaven's Gate? Does he give advice on fiscal responsibility during The Deer Hunter commentary?

I apologize for the tasteless joke but these are excellent points. I'm not very familiar with Cimino's movies but I have seen 'Deer Hunter.' It's nice to have one more Cazale performance, but I'm not sure why you give final cut and buckets of cash to anyone -- particularly for a fading genre -- based on that movie. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and currently there are no endless rails of blow lined up on my desk.

It has probably been around 20 years since I read the Bach book but I don't recall Cimino coming off very sympathetically. Of course, Cimino's isssues on the HG production were likely a primary contributing factor to the author losing a lucrative studio job; there was probably plenty of score settling involved with its narrative. I'm also sure there may be ego stroking afoot at Criterion if they care about Cimino participation in a HG release. Perhaps the producer of the disk thinks it's not only a misunderstood masterpiece but one of the greatest movies ever made. Maybe no one at Criterion thinks very much at all of the movie but someone (finally) might turn a profit on a HG release due to its cult status and it might as well be them.

There appears to be fewer audio commentaries on Crierion releases these days so perhaps there will be no solo Cimino track, where -- based on your impressions of the YOTD commentary -- he tries to elevate what most seem to think is a deeply flawed movie. Perhaps Cimino is willing to acknowledge problems with the movie and take some responsibility for its failure. Maybe he will just get an on-camera interview, and Criterion will also interview some of the guys who went on to form Orion. I'm sure there are some delicate negotiations based on all the egos and bad blood involved.

[Living Deadpan]

Originally Posted by theWitcher

I'm sure there are some delicate negotiations based on all the egos and bad blood involved.

Indeed. However, Hell pretty much froze over when they released that 3-disc Imperial Edition of Caligula. If that's possible, anything is.

Is this real news, though, or just hearsay? You may recall Sony was going to release Ishtar on Blu-ray, but that got yanked. The first time I read that Criterion was going to put out Heaven's Gate, I was wondering whether it was a belated April Fool's joke. "You already made the fake cover for Kindergarten Cop, this is just overkill."

I might be concerned if they do let Cimino supervise the transfer or re-integrate the footage from the 5 hour cut. We don't want to be reading "Cimino bankrupts Criterion!"

At any rate, it's not just the UA suits that have negative things to say about Cimino. There was an AV Club interview with Tom Noonan which pretty much dispelled the notion that the film was a joy for everyone on the creative end.

Originally Posted by Tom Noonan

[on Heaven's Gate (1980)] That was probably the worst experience I had in my adult life at that point. Michael Cimino's not a very nice person... He pointed a blank at my face once - which is really dangerous; you can kill somebody with a blank gun - like, threateningly. Like, "I want you to do this, and if you don't..." He was really crazy.

I guess not everyone had as much fun as Mickey Rourke or Jeff Bridges.

[Mabuse]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

My statement was more about the fact that while no one may come right out and state it, the prevailing attitude here is one of acting like CC is the "be all, end all." Of course when that question is put to folks directly they won't admit they believe that, but they sure act like it is. Point being you don't have to be a CC disciple to be a fan of film.

Normally I wouldn't even engage in this debate, but I happened to pop in here to see what might be coming out next and I saw Mabuse's statement and felt compelled to reply.

Anyway it's not my intent to come in here and derail things any further. Please feel free to have the last word. No minds will be changed obviously.

Frankly I do think they are the "be all end all" in regards to making a great poduct. That's one of the number one things I like about Criterion. I genuinly admire their buisiness practices, their standards, their approach to presenting films the way they were meant to be seen. The very film studios who make many of the films in the collection don't take the care that Criterion does in presenting the film properly and making it a product worth owning. The "Criterion" name on a disc means it's as close to perfect as you're going to get. When I see the name "Universal" or "Paramount" on a disc I know there's a good chance it's going to be of poor quality.

[bunkaroo]

Originally Posted by Mabuse

Frankly I do think they are the "be all end all" in regards to making a great poduct. That's one of the number one things I like about Criterion. I genuinly admire their buisiness practices, their standards, their approach to presenting films the way they were meant to be seen. The very film studios who make many of the films in the collection don't take the care that Criterion does in presenting the film properly and making it a product worth owning. The "Criterion" name on a disc means it's as close to perfect as you're going to get. When I see the name "Universal" or "Paramount" on a disc I know there's a good chance it's going to be of poor quality.

I won't argue that at all - I agree CC means quality for sure. I just took exception to the notion one can't be a film lover if they don't love a lot of CC films. I don't have any issue with how CC treats or picks their films. I'm thrilled to be getting Being John Malkovich next week.

[Randy Miller III]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

I've been enjoying Wes Anderson films before "hipsters" was even a term.

Doubtful...the word was used as early as the 1940s. Even the modern version of the word was used in a Smashing Pumpkins song circa 1994. Bottle Rocket wasn't even out until two years later.

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by Randy Miller III

Doubtful...the word was used as early as the 1940s. Even the modern version of the word was used in a Smashing Pumpkins song circa 1994. Bottle Rocket wasn't even out until two years later.

Calling people "hipsters" is a pretty new thing. While the idea (and name) may have existed long before, it's only really been a part of everyday vocabulary to describe someone (glasses, rolled up pants, "ironic", etc.) for a few years (at best). I know it was certainly never a term when I was in High School a decade ago.

[Randy Miller III]

So, you're saying the term didn't exist in everyday vocabulary until you heard of it. Gotcha.

[GenPion]

From my own experiences, I am going to have to agree that 'hipster' is a word that hasn't been used as frequently until recently -- over the past few years. I hear it all the time now but I used to never hear anyone using the word.

I'm not going to try to say the word didn't exist before, but it does seem as though it is much more common today than it ever was before.

[Solid Snake PAC]

Like it was said. The term has been around for a while but never has it ever been used so goddamn much until post 2000.

[Doctorossi]

It's quite irrelevant when the term came into popular parlance. The point is that the people with hipster attitudes (whatever you actually call them) surely produce a more circular Venn diagram when paired with Wes Anderson movies than with anything else Criterion offers.

The hipster is to the Wes Anderson movie as the chicken is to the egg.

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's quite irrelevant when the term came into popular parlance. The point is that the people with hipster attitudes (whatever you actually call them) surely produce a more circular Venn diagram when paired with Wes Anderson movies than with anything else Criterion offers.

The hipster is to the Wes Anderson movie as the chicken is to the egg.

So shouldn't I love Criterion since it makes all the hipsters happy?

Maybe you're just mad not every loves everything Criterion puts out (that the respective studios who owns the film usually has little interest in doing so - because sales would be low). Thankfully there are spine collectors keeping Criterion afloat.

[kefrank]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

I've been enjoying Wes Anderson films before "hipsters" was even a term.

Until your subsequent replies, I really thought you were being intentionally ironic here, because the whole, "I was into XXXX before it was cool!" attitude is a defining characteristic of hipsterism.

[LPMA]

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD

So shouldn't I love Criterion since it makes all the hipsters happy?

Maybe you're just mad not every loves everything Criterion puts out (that the respective studios who owns the film usually has little interest in doing so - because sales would be low). Thankfully there are spine collectors keeping Criterion afloat.

I see how you still choose to ignore the numerous explanations given in this thread about film rights and how the notion of "respective studios" doesn't apply to most films released by Criterion.

Also, just adding my own two cents in: How would it make sense, financially, for a company like Criterion to spend copious amounts of money restoring a film, researching extras and creating a "deluxe" $40 SRP package for movies with "low sales", and not for other film studios who would probably just put it out there with little-to-no effort at a much lower price point?

[Sondheim]

Originally Posted by LPMA

I see how you still choose to ignore the numerous explanations given in this thread about film rights and how the notion of "respective studios" doesn't apply to most films released by Criterion.

I'm guessing that at this point he's just messing with us.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by LPMA

I see how you still choose to ignore the numerous explanations given in this thread about film rights and how the notion of "respective studios" doesn't apply to most films released by Criterion.

This is irrelevant, too. Even if we accept his "too unpopular for the studios to bother with" argument, popularity/sales volume does not have a 1:1 relationship with quality.

Besides, his argument completely defeats itself: if all of these movies really had no market fanbase worth bothering with, Criterion would be long out of business.

[Mabuse]

The bottom line is that Criterion takes these "marginal movies" that the studios pass over because they wouldn't make a lot of money and they actually make a lot of money selling them. Criterion does a better job exploiting film properties than the very studios who made the films, thus proving how brilliant Criterion is. Anyone or anything that is that brilliant always attracts nuisance haters. A big part of it is resentment for being successful. The frequent lament is that Criterion isn't doing anything right and they succeed only because they blundered into some "spine number collecting phenomenon".

[nando820]

New Hipster movie coming soon!!!!

[dino88]

Originally Posted by nando820

New Hipster movie coming soon!!!!

Is that being released in theaters or just Starbucks?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by dino88

Is that being released in theaters or just Starbucks?

Starbucks Criterion on-demand download, straight into your internet-enabled bakelite glasses (lenses optional).

[PopcornTreeCt]

Originally Posted by nando820

New Hipster movie coming soon!!!!

Hipster or not this movie looks fucking amazing.

[slop101]

I hope this makes it Criterion then:

[Living Deadpan]

I miss the days when hipsters called each other nihilists.

[wendersfan]

Originally Posted by Artman

Take the America BBS set... I've debated all week whether to get it or not. Great value for the films.. I've only seen Easy Rider, which I enjoyed and appreciated. Do I love it in any special way? Not really....so, it's just back to whether I should own a film I merely 'enjoy' or keep it to films I really love.

That set is worth it just for Five Easy Pieces. Or The Last Picture Show. Or The King of Marvin Gardens.

[Tommy Bunz]

Originally Posted by Randy Miller III

Doubtful...the word was used as early as the 1940s. Even the modern version of the word was used in a Smashing Pumpkins song circa 1994. Bottle Rocket wasn't even out until two years later.

Elaine calls Kramer one in The Glasses episode of seinfeld (from season 5, also 1994)

[GizmoDVD]

Originally Posted by Mabuse

The bottom line is that Criterion takes these "marginal movies" that the studios pass over because they wouldn't make a lot of money and they actually make a lot of money selling them. Criterion does a better job exploiting film properties than the very studios who made the films, thus proving how brilliant Criterion is. Anyone or anything that is that brilliant always attracts nuisance haters. A big part of it is resentment for being successful. The frequent lament is that Criterion isn't doing anything right and they succeed only because they blundered into some "spine number collecting phenomenon".

Wow? They make a lot of money selling them? Oh boy. You have any proof of that or is that just an assumption? Many think they lose money on many releases have to releases 'normal' films just to make it back to even. You realize they have to spend money not only obtaining the films from the respective studios, but cleaning it up, finding extras etc. (In some cases, they still don't look as good as the Studio released one)

But please, break out the sales figures. You tell me how many Criterion Blu-rays have reached the Top 20 for any week since 2008 (since you are the one claiming they make a a lot of money). I mean, Criterion is doing so awesome they sold a huge amount of their catalog to Hulu to stream - with commercials. Yeah, they are making boat loads on selling discs and Amazon regularly sells them for nearly 50% off MSRP just a few weeks after release