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Old 08-24-11, 05:05 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by NoirFan
Ah, interesting. Apparently Criterion was set to release a six-film Godzilla box.
really? Interesting of them wanting to do that. Never heard that they were interested back in that era

It would be fucking badass if they did have a deal like that to do that w/ the first 6 films of the Showa series (can't imagine Universal letting KKvsG go though...). Those 6 are gold, the ones between between that and the Heisei series are very wish washy in terms of quality. I did love the idea of Destroy All Monsters...though I felt that film's potential was squandered.

Last edited by Solid Snake; 08-24-11 at 05:15 PM.
Old 08-24-11, 10:58 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Well this is badass.


from: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND GODZILLA
CRITERION FINDS US VERSION OF GODZILLA!
35mm Fine-Grain of GKOTM Discovered


Yesterday, I posted the fantastic news that the Criterion Collection had slyly announced, with a simple photo, that they will be prepping a DVD/BD release of the original Japanese version of GODZILLA aka GOJIRA (1954) — see previous blog post — and while, it seems, that Honda's seminal film will be getting a much-needed restoration, some have been asking if the corresponding US version helmed by Terry O. Morse, GODZILLA, KING OF THE MONSTERS! (1956), starring Raymond Burr, will be included in this release. Previous home video releases of this film — and all versions screened on television, cable, and online in the last 30 years — have been culled from the same, edited telecine transfer of a 35mm master, prepared in the early 1980s by Henry G. Saperstein's UPA (United Productions of America). Unfortunately, Toho has nothing for the US version (barring the cropped "cinemascope" version released in Japan in the late 1950s), and since there was nothing else readily available, Classic Media used this very same three decade-old transfer for their 2006 release.

What was delted? UPA's transfer is missing the original "Jewell Enterprises" logo at the top of the film (printed over Toho's sunburst logo), seen in early television versions (before UPA's acquisition), a starring and directed by card after the opening title, and the original — and full — ending credits sequence, which appeared between the fade out and "The End" title card. While Classic Media's release, reinstates the original ending credits sequence (taken from a 16mm print owned by a private collector), it was placed after the "The End" title card. But, the Jewell Enterprises logo remained absent. While several fans have 16mm prints of the original television transfer of GODZILLA, KING OF THE MONSTERS! — some complete, others not — the search for 35mm elements, or at the very least, an uncut 35mm theatrical print, had proved an elusive creature. While there are several private (and notable) collectors who do have 35mm prints of this film, most of them wish to remain nameless, out of fear that their prints will be confiscated (which has indeed happened to collectors in the past).

So, Criterion put the call out to film collectors, everywhere, to help locate 35mm elements for GODZILLA, KING OF THE MONSTERS! Startlingly, within 24 hours, through the auspices of several fans — working together and respecting the anonymity of the source — according to "insiders", a veritable Rosetta Stone, something far better than a 35mm print has been located: A 35mm Fine-Grain Print! "So, what does that mean?", you might ask. It's actually quite big deal, really. Why? The following explanation is from the article, "Duped Negatives" and "Lavender Prints": Understanding Film Restoration from The Picture Show Man:

Sometimes called a "fine-grain sub-master", or "protection print", or "lavender print", or "purple print" (because the fine-grains of the film have a slightly purple color to them). These are positive prints, made from either camera negatives or dupe (duplicate) negatives, using film that has a low contrast, extremely fine-grained emulsion. They are made expressly and exclusively for the purpose of making another dupe negative, and are not meant to be shown. (In fact, the projected image quality of these prints is poor compared to a timed projection print, and the perforations have a slightly different shape than projection prints.)

In plain English, this means that the next best thing to finding an original Interpositive (the first "positive print" made from the Camera Negative) — a first-generation print! So, while celebrating this early may be premature, I'm going to start popping the Champagne corks (or maybe some Champipple) — because a transfer from this Fine-Grain should prove to be stunning in comparison to what has been previously available to us, especially once such a transfer gets a Criterion Touch digital restoration! Many of you out there may not quite grasp the monumental thing that has happened here. This is an earth-shaking, screen-shattering thrill! This is big news, towering and tremendous — akin to the discovery of a Missing Link — and is more fantastic than I ever thought possible, to paraphrase Burr's character in GODZILLA, KING OF THE MONSTERS!

In the meantime, let's keep our fingers crossed for Criterion, but not hold our collective breath (we don't want to jinx this). But still, so far, this really has been a "tale to stun the mind!"
Old 08-24-11, 11:05 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

First off, that's awesome. Second, I am ecstatic that Criterion are releasing this. It's such good news.
Old 08-24-11, 11:44 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

I'm really not sure why Criterion would want to release the US version, anyway. Sure, it has historic significance and made a cultural impact, but it's still a hack-job.

Lots of people saw Lawrence of Arabia for the first and/or only time in a pan-and-scan tv butchery, as well, but if I remember my Criterion literature correctly, their attitude was always, let's say, somewhat less sympathetic toward that "version".
Old 08-25-11, 07:59 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

They might as well cuz it's popular as hell. I've only seen that version once...and I could barely make it through.
Old 08-25-11, 08:08 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

I was the same as you Snake. Watched it once about 15 years ago and just tuned out. Gave it another try again many years later and got a kick out of it, so go figure. However, I'll wait and see what they're going to be putting into this release first before deciding whether or not to get this.
Old 08-25-11, 09:06 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Blu-ray.com review of Battle of Algiers
Old 08-25-11, 10:01 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC
They might as well cuz it's popular as hell.
The edited-for-content network tv version of Jingle All the Way had a lot of viewers, too. Criterion Blu-ray forthcoming?
Old 08-25-11, 10:07 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

The whole thing with the materials for the US version being lost must be one of those things that I'd read about but then forgotten about it cause I knew it had received a DVD release with that double feature a few years ago, but hadn't recalled the quality issues.

As with anime, I can go either way with dubbing. If it was the way I first saw it (like Tenchi Muyo on [adult swim] (English dub, of course), then that's how I usually watch it on DVD. I really like how so many of the better Godzilla film releases from the past few years have both options, and for this case I think the presence of Raymond Burr lends a little weight to its importance.
Old 08-25-11, 10:28 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Doctorossi
The edited-for-content network tv version of Jingle All the Way had a lot of viewers, too. Criterion Blu-ray forthcoming?
Ah..but that's a different beast compared to Godzilla. Japan had the original cut in theaters, while the US got the one more in vein w/ the US standard...and was what literally made Godzilla so popular here in the states. So yes, I do believe it's worth Criterion's time to have both cuts. People who want the original film...got that. BUT...for those of us who really like the US cut (and we can't forget how culturally significant the film is to US cinema and it's impact)...we got that to. Criterion isn't stupid. They'll make money w/ this..and also get praised for it if everything turns out great.
Old 08-25-11, 10:32 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

what's the holdup of Rashomon (4K restoration/transfer) - I missed the theatrical rerelease
Old 08-25-11, 11:18 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

I grew up watching the US cut of Godzilla on a loop. This news is undeniably fantastic and I'm drooling thniking about a 2012 announcement for this on BD with both cuts of the film.
Old 08-25-11, 11:40 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC
Ah..but that's a different beast compared to Godzilla.
How is it different? Both are bastardizations of the original material, edited by an outside party and not representative of the original filmmakers' intent. In other words, a product essentially diametrically opposed to Criterion's mission statement.
Old 08-25-11, 11:47 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Doctorossi
Both are bastardizations of the original material, edited by an outside party and not representative of the original filmmakers' intent. In other words, a product essentially diametrically opposed to Criterion's mission statement.
Brazil and Mr. Arkadin included alternate cuts that the filmmakers weren't involved in and disapproved of.
Old 08-25-11, 11:50 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by NoirFan
Brazil and Mr. Arkadin included alternate cuts that the filmmakers weren't involved in and disapproved of.
True. As long as they remain supplemental curiosities, I suppose...
Old 08-25-11, 12:29 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

The main prize isn't the US feature. It's the Japanese film. The US film is just a great add on. More for your buck. Though I don't want it..but it's great that it's there.
Old 08-25-11, 03:37 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Does anyone else remember the rumor about Criterion releasing Godzilla back around 2003 or '04? I recall reading about it and even talking to some people about it. It never happened but this is definitely not the first time Godzilla and Criterion have been talked about in the same breath.
Old 08-25-11, 06:29 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

love these

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3mgmyuYcCUE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Old 08-25-11, 07:01 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

I know it's extremely doubtful, but if they include Luigi Cozzi's version of Godzilla, I'll pull a Randy Marsh and, well, you know.
Old 08-25-11, 09:52 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Solid Snake PAC
love these

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3mgmyuYcCUE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Always enjoy these videos.
Old 08-25-11, 10:15 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
Does anyone else remember the rumor about Criterion releasing Godzilla back around 2003 or '04? I recall reading about it and even talking to some people about it. It never happened but this is definitely not the first time Godzilla and Criterion have been talked about in the same breath.
They announced a laserdisc for Gojira in 1993 or 1994 that would have been released in time for the 40th anniversary of the film that never materialized and then again in 1998 as a special edition with commentary from I believe Bruce Eder along with Godzilla King of the Monsters, Godzilla vs. Mothra, Godzilla vs. Monster Zero, Godzilla's Revenge and Terror of Mechagodzilla. Sadly, Toho pulled the plug on these at the last minute. Which, given the cost of laserdiscs, saved my bank account but ticked me off to no end.

Looking forward to this on BluRay and hope that they'll do the other titles that they had announced back in 1998.
Old 08-25-11, 10:28 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Doctorossi
I'm really not sure why Criterion would want to release the US version, anyway. Sure, it has historic significance and made a cultural impact, but it's still a hack-job.
I think you answered why Criterion would want to release the US version.

Ignoring the US version undermines the history of Godzilla. Western audiences would know nothing of Godzilla if the US version was never put out. It might've been a franchise nonetheless in Japan, but US audiences probably would've never had the chance to see it or care for it. In addition, the release of the US version helped create a full fledged market for Japanese film and television to be imported in the states. Again, this would've never happened if that US version didn't exist. So yes, it has historical significance that demands it to be on a Criterion set.

And all of your examples are fucking apple and orange comparisons.

I can't see Criterion releasing just the US version. I'm expecting their release to have both Japanese and US cuts of the film presented in the same set.
Old 08-25-11, 11:03 PM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
Ignoring the US version undermines the history of Godzilla. Western audiences would know nothing of Godzilla if the US version was never put out. It might've been a franchise nonetheless in Japan, but US audiences probably would've never had the chance to see it or care for it.
The US version didn't give them the opportunity to see it and care for it; it gave them the opportunity to see and care for an adulteration of it.

As long as the unmolested original is there, the US version makes a fun extra, I suppose. It just seems to me rather contrary to Criterion's general philosophy.
Old 08-26-11, 01:10 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Doctorossi
The US version didn't give them the opportunity to see it and care for it; it gave them the opportunity to see and care for an adulteration of it.

As long as the unmolested original is there, the US version makes a fun extra, I suppose. It just seems to me rather contrary to Criterion's general philosophy.
... but to compare it to a pan and scan version of Lawrence of Arabia? An edited-for-television version of Jingle All The Way? Uh, I don't think so.

If the US version didn't exist, this conversation about Godzilla would never exist. It might not be as great as the original unedited Japanese version (which I agree is the far superior edit), but sorry to break it to you, it introduced the entire world to Godzilla outside of Asia.
Old 08-26-11, 07:48 AM
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
... but to compare it to a pan and scan version of Lawrence of Arabia? An edited-for-television version of Jingle All The Way? Uh, I don't think so.
How do these examples fail you? In all cases, we're talking about an outside layer of editorial interference, with a necessarily contrary agenda.

Originally Posted by Matthew Chmiel
If the US version didn't exist, this conversation about Godzilla would never exist. It might not be as great as the original unedited Japanese version (which I agree is the far superior edit), but sorry to break it to you, it introduced the entire world to Godzilla outside of Asia.
Your point being? Last time I checked, Criterion didn't operate on the sole *ahem* criterion, "What can we release that will make the most possible money, regardless of anything else?" I'm well aware of the reach of the US cut. So what? Lots of things gain wider exposure by being exploited in ways their creators never intended. Criterion is supposed to be about presenting art the way its creators did intend.


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